ANT-MAN & THE WASP QUANTUMANIA directed by Peyton Reed (2023) 11 11

[theCapraAegagrus]

On 3/10/2023 at 8:27 AM, Bosco685 said:

Yes. Those that have celebrated 'X-Men' female and male characters for decades are not true fans. Only those that know Marvel Comics via MCU films. They're the true fans.

Marvel's first family is too exclusive. Not everyone is "fantastic". Time for change. Maybe the Equitable Four?

[Gatsby77]

But Marvel has already been bowing to political correctness since the first film.

To my knowledge, they've never used the name "Marvel Girl" in the films - instead referring to her simply as "Jean Grey" from the jump.

[@therealsilvermane]

On 3/10/2023 at 8:19 AM, Bosco685 said:

Who's we? Imaginary friends that serve as echo chamber acceptable standards.

 

On 3/10/2023 at 8:22 AM, theCapraAegagrus said:

He's pretending that it's "older fans" that want to preserve the X-Men. name.

I’ll address both concerns at once.

”We” refers to anyone with a brain, whether you’re for, against, or don’t care about the “Men” thing. I actually personally don’t care.

”Older fans” could just be “fans”, because as far as I can tell, young folks don’t really care about the X-Men, Wolverine, or mutants in general. Ask any ten year old who Wolverine is and they’ll most likely respond with “You mean, WHAT’S a wolverine?”

[Bosco685]

On 3/10/2023 at 10:01 AM, @therealsilvermane said:

I’ll address both concerns at once.

”We” refers to anyone with a [overly woke] brain, whether you’re for, against, or don’t care about the “Men” thing. I actually personally don’t care.

”Older fans” could just be “fans”, because as far as I can tell, young folks don’t really care about the X-Men, Wolverine, or mutants in general. Ask any ten year old who Wolverine is and they’ll most likely respond with “You mean, WHAT’S a wolverine?”

fixed that

Now as far as 'young folks' not really caring, that's a very selective and biased statement to fit a "Call them The Mutants" mindset. If that was true, then Disney wouldn't be continuing the 1992-1996 X-Men Animated Series with its 1997 show. There is a large demand for that show to continue. And notice it was called X-Men '97 and not Mutants, New Mutants or Socially Acceptable Mutants.

Some will assume the crowd they speak with in a few mirrors surrounding their desk are the more informed fans with brains. Others listen to the real audience members.

[Straw-Man]

On 3/10/2023 at 9:01 AM, @therealsilvermane said:

 

I’ll address both concerns at once.

”We” refers to anyone with a brain, whether you’re for, against, or don’t care about the “Men” thing. I actually personally don’t care.

”Older fans” could just be “fans”, because as far as I can tell, young folks don’t really care about the X-Men, Wolverine, or mutants in general. Ask any ten year old who Wolverine is and they’ll most likely respond with “You mean, WHAT’S a wolverine?”

 

[Straw-Man]

and, seemingly, proudly so.

[theCapraAegagrus]

On 3/10/2023 at 10:48 AM, Straw-Man said:

and, seemingly, proudly so.

Seem familiar?

[Hulksdaddy1]

On 3/10/2023 at 8:13 AM, @therealsilvermane said:

Except Marvel Comics hasn’t just used “X-Men” when referring to groups of mutants over the years. They’ve also used X-Factor, X-Force, X-Terminators, X-Statix, X-Cellent, House of X, Powers of X, Destiny of X, Legion of X, Knights of X, Way of X, Generation X, Excalibur, Exiles, and the New Mutants, among others. 

Look, we get it. When you say “mankind”, you’re referring to men and women together. But those “rules” of language and diction were established hundreds of years ago when men dic*tated everything, from who got to fight to what gender god is. That’s no longer the case. And women aren’t a “group”, they’re literally half of all human beings. 

I think it’s a sticky situation. It’s not just Victoria Alonso, either. Kevin Feige has never used the word X-Men except referring to the animated show. He’s called them mutants. I think Marvel Studios doesn’t want to use the X-Men name, but also understands the dilemma with older fans. I think Marvel kicks the mutant issue can way down the road as they focus on current storylines and getting the Fantastic Four cinematically right, which is another problem itself. I think in the end, Marvel Studios will not use the X-Men title, and will  go with House of X or something. But that won’t be for a long time. I think.

What the...?!?!

C'mon man, stop, just stop. They're called the X-Men. Sure, not all are men, but that's their name. 

Not all New York Yankees are Yankees. Not all Dallas Cowboys are cowboys. And not all Buffalo Bills are named Bill.

If Marvel/Disney goes down the road you seem to be ok with, fine, but understand the consequences. Because people will stop showing up, more so than they are already doing.

 

[Gatsby77]

On 3/10/2023 at 11:14 AM, Hulksdaddy1 said:

If Marvel/Disney goes down the road you seem to be ok with, fine, but understand the consequences. Because people will stop showing up, more so than they are already doing.

To be fair, it's a tall order for more people to stop showing up than they did for Dark Phoenix.

What with it's $68 million domestic / $252 million worldwide gross - and pre-Covid at that.

For a flagship X-Men film featuring multiple Oscar winners to do that poorly is crazy.

[MattTheDuck]

On 3/9/2023 at 12:50 PM, paperheart said:

 

With Marvel, he said, “there are 7,000 characters, there are a lot more stories to tell. What we have to look at at Marvel is not necessarily the volume of Marvel stories we’re telling but how many times we go back to the well on certain characters. Sequels typically work well for us. Do you need a third and a fourth, for instance, or is it time to turn to other characters?”

 

I find Iger's take here odd. You're telling me that characters that could sustain interest over hundreds of comic issues published over decades have only 2 stories each that can be successfully adapted to a movie?  News Flash: people didn't hate "Love and Thunder" because they were tired of Thor (well, maybe they were tired of "goofball Thor"), they hated it because it was a badly written, nonsensical movie.  

[Hulksdaddy1]

On 3/10/2023 at 11:33 AM, Gatsby77 said:

To be fair, it's a tall order for more people to stop showing up than they did for Dark Phoenix.

What with it's $68 million domestic / $252 million worldwide gross - and pre-Covid at that.

For a flagship X-Men film featuring multiple Oscar winners to do that poorly is crazy.

That's true. To be fair though, it had "lame duck" status, as everyone knew it was Fox's last hurrah. Factor in how poorly received X-Men: Apocalypse was, and it really had no chance of success.

It being bad didn't help.

 

[@therealsilvermane]

On 3/10/2023 at 10:48 AM, Straw-Man said:

 

Wasn’t there a movie about a straw man who wanted a brain? 

As far as my head being somewhere dark, I seem to be the only vocal one here who understands both sides of the argument of tradition versus change. I get why some folks want to keep things the way they were, but nobody else posting seems to want to understand the positive side of changing that going forward other than it being some kind of evil dastardly thing. Maybe some other folks need to pull their heads out of dark places?

[Gatsby77]

On 3/10/2023 at 11:49 AM, @therealsilvermane said:

Wasn’t there a movie about a straw man who wanted a brain? 

As far as my head being somewhere dark, I seem to be the only vocal one here who understands both sides of the argument of tradition versus change. I get why some folks want to keep things the way they were, but nobody else posting seems to want to understand the positive side of changing that going forward other than it being some kind of evil dastardly thing. Maybe some other folks need to pull their heads out of dark places?

Zero chance Disney changes the X-Men name.

Why?

Because as poorly as X-Men 7 (ahem! Dark Phoenix) did, The New Mutants did nearly an order of magnitude worse.

[@therealsilvermane]

On 3/10/2023 at 10:46 AM, Bosco685 said:

Some will assume the crowd they speak with in a few mirrors surrounding their desk are the more informed fans with brains. Others listen to the real audience members.

Let me clarify. When I said “we get it”, I didn’t mean a certain group gets it. I meant all humans with a competent understanding of the English language understand that “man” and “mankind” are umbrella terms encompassing both male and female. I meant “people get it”, but I happened to use the word “we.” 

Something tells me you still don’t get it.

[@therealsilvermane]

On 3/10/2023 at 12:02 PM, Gatsby77 said:

Zero chance Disney changes the X-Men name.

Why?

Because as poorly as X-Men 7 (ahem! Dark Phoenix) did, The New Mutants did nearly an order of magnitude worse.

I understand “mutants” is not a great name for a superhero title. I think Marvel publisher Martin Goodman understood that 60 years ago, as well. That’s why I said I think it will be something with X, like House of X. 

[Bosco685]

On 3/10/2023 at 12:06 PM, @therealsilvermane said:

Let me clarify. When I said “we get it”, I didn’t mean a certain group gets it. I meant all humans with a competent understanding of the English language understand that “man” and “mankind” are umbrella terms encompassing both male and female. I meant “people get it”, but I happened to use the word “we.” 

Something tells me you still don’t get it.

I think you misunderstand. Anyone collecting and reading X-Men Universe comic books over the years knows how worldwide the name brand is celebrated and recognized.

Overly-sensitive people fixating on '...-Men' definitely spoil it for the rest. House of X makes no sense as a franchise movie title. X-Men does since 1992 when the animated series drove all that general audience interest.

[Bosco685]

 

[Mr Sneeze]

On 3/10/2023 at 8:29 AM, theCapraAegagrus said:

Marvel's first family is too exclusive. Not everyone is "fantastic". Time for change. Maybe the Equitable Four?

After a few iterations all superhero team names will be reduced to a grunt.

[TupennyConan]

On 3/10/2023 at 1:10 PM, Mr Sneeze said:

superhero.

Thoroughly problematic fantasy of the fragile white western male mind.

[D84]

On 3/10/2023 at 7:29 AM, theCapraAegagrus said:

Marvel's first family is too exclusive. Not everyone is "fantastic". Time for change. Maybe the Equitable Four?

To be fair, I don't think any of them are particularly "fantastic" but the "Moderately Adequate Four" is a bad title.