Star Wars Episode IX: The Rise of Skywalker (SPOILERS) 0

[Rip]

1 hour ago, fantastic_four said:

I have some of the same questions you do, but I haven't seen all of Clone Wars or Rebels yet and presume at least some of the answers lie there.  But this question burned me throughout the scenes where they showed the amphitheater.  Whoever they were, they weren't terribly skilled in the Force to all get taken out at once like that.  I'm guessing they were all clones of someone because they all looked to be the same size in the closeups, but who I'm unsure of.  Could have been Palpatine clones, could have been Snoke clones, or possibly someone else.  The only reason Snoke occurred to me is since Palpatine said he created Snoke and we saw a few terminated clones of him in glass vats

They cover a little bit of temple stuff in the newest cartoon other than that I think a lot of that is new.

[drotto]

1 hour ago, fantastic_four said:

I have some of the same questions you do, but I haven't seen all of Clone Wars or Rebels yet and presume at least some of the answers lie there.  But this question burned me throughout the scenes where they showed the amphitheater.  Whoever they were, they weren't terribly skilled in the Force to all get taken out at once like that.  I'm guessing they were all clones of someone because they all looked to be the same size in the closeups, but who I'm unsure of.  Could have been Palpatine clones, could have been Snoke clones, or possibly someone else.  The only reason Snoke occurred to me is since Palpatine said he created Snoke and we saw a few terminated clones of him in glass vats.

 

I have seen 95% of the Clone Wars and Rebels, other than easter eggs they added nothing to my understanding of the movie.  I do not think those shows significantly fill any of the plot holes.

[fantastic_four]

1 hour ago, drotto said:

3 hours ago, fantastic_four said:

I have some of the same questions you do, but I haven't seen all of Clone Wars or Rebels yet and presume at least some of the answers lie there.  But this question burned me throughout the scenes where they showed the amphitheater.  Whoever they were, they weren't terribly skilled in the Force to all get taken out at once like that.  I'm guessing they were all clones of someone because they all looked to be the same size in the closeups, but who I'm unsure of.  Could have been Palpatine clones, could have been Snoke clones, or possibly someone else.  The only reason Snoke occurred to me is since Palpatine said he created Snoke and we saw a few terminated clones of him in glass vats.

I have seen 95% of the Clone Wars and Rebels, other than easter eggs they added nothing to my understanding of the movie.  I do not think those shows significantly fill any of the plot holes.

I'm fairly sure Valiantman wasn't calling them plot holes, and I know I wasn't.  So I can't tell if you're talking about something entirely different than his questions or not...for example, you're saying that NO Sith history was ever covered in either series?  It definitely was in some of the Clone Wars episodes I've seen, and I assume there's more in episodes I haven't.

There's a rule of thumb about plot holes in films--80% of the time when a fan calls something a plot hole, it isn't.  Sometimes it is, but the nature of fandom is whatever we don't understand we often lazily deem a plot hole even if there's an explanation somewhere in the film's lore that wasn't explicitly shown.

Edited December 22, 2019 by fantastic_four

[Rip]

From my understanding they are going to be filling in some of these unexplained things in the Mandalorian, books cartoons and future Disney plus things.

IGN has a good write up

https://www.ign.com/articles/2019/12/21/star-wars-rise-of-skywalker-exegol-sith-planet-wayfinder-explained

Also Star Wars resistance has a Sith temple discovery also inside of a Jedi temple where they sometimes are found.

https://dorksideoftheforce.com/2019/11/17/star-wars-resistance-recap-s2-e7/

 

[musicmeta]

On 12/20/2019 at 10:16 AM, Frederic9494 said:

Saw it last night. I liked it.

Not a perfect movie, a couple of WTF moments but I felt it was a good way to end the saga.

I agree with Rip that Mandalorian feels more like Star Wars 4-6... really like that show.

Got back from watching it a little while ago.  I liked it also...Not an amazing movie but entertaining.  Better then the last one IMO.  I haven't started watching "The Mandalorian" yet but will very soon. 
 

[WolverineX]

49 minutes ago, musicmeta said:

Got back from watching it a little while ago.  I liked it also...Not an amazing movie but entertaining.  Better then the last one IMO.  I haven't started watching "The Mandalorian" yet but will very soon. 
 

I went in with incredibly low expectations. It was not as terrible as I expected. Still processing. Definitely not as good as Mandalorian though.

[MetalPSI]

Ugh. Just glad it's over, whatever that was. I can't stand Disney style, forcefully interjecting humor to lighten the tone.

This movie was just too little, too late. Nice to get a Sith background, but they totally butchered it because they should have given more history in earlier films.

I haven't read books, only played the games a little bit, therefore the whole Sith thing is pile of excrement. No backstory as to how he came back, let alone I AM THE SITH. Weak. So very weak.

For a popcorn movie, I've seen better, but I got out of it what I came for, an end. It's over. Thankfully

[fantastic_four]

16 hours ago, fantastic_four said:

On 12/20/2019 at 11:02 AM, valiantman said:

7) Exogol throne room amphitheatre crowd - who were they?

I have some of the same questions you do, but I haven't seen all of Clone Wars or Rebels yet and presume at least some of the answers lie there.  But this question burned me throughout the scenes where they showed the amphitheater.  Whoever they were, they weren't terribly skilled in the Force to all get taken out at once like that.  I'm guessing they were all clones of someone because they all looked to be the same size in the closeups, but who I'm unsure of.  Could have been Palpatine clones, could have been Snoke clones, or possibly someone else.  The only reason Snoke occurred to me is since Palpatine said he created Snoke and we saw a few terminated clones of him in glass vats.

I'm wondering if the main story of the Mandalorian ties into this.  Snoke started the First Order, and Palpatine controlled Snoke, and I believe that the First Order does exist in the timeframe of the Mandalorian, it just hasn't risen to power yet.  It could be that Snoke is the most Force-sensitive being Palpatine had available to clone aside from himself, and in the Mandalorian we're seeing him trying to obtain "The Child" for cloning to create an elite Sith army.  He must not have obtained him, however, because whoever was in the ampitheatre was significantly larger than Yoda's species.

Or maybe they were supposed to be the Force ghosts of all dead Sith since Palpatine was claiming that he was channeling the power of a thousand Sith.  But I would have expected their sizes to vary far more significantly if that were the case...maybe it was just hard to tell under the extra-loose cloaks?

[drotto]

47 minutes ago, fantastic_four said:

Or maybe they were supposed to be the Force ghosts of all dead Sith since Palpatine was claiming that he was channeling the power of a thousand Sith.  But I would have expected their sizes to vary far more significantly if that were the case...maybe it was just hard to tell under the extra-loose cloaks?

This was my impression also.  I can tell you, many of my friend who saw the movie and are more casual Star Wars fans were very confused with that scene.

[Gatsby77]

1 hour ago, drotto said:

This was my impression also.  I can tell you, many of my friend who saw the movie and are more casual Star Wars fans were very confused with that scene.

Yeah - my takeaway was they were biting off of Highlander -- with Sideous channeling all of the Sith and Rey channeling all of the Jedi. But in the end, there can be only one.

[Foley]

This movie failed on so many levels for me, but let's start with the good: It was visually appealing. It was fairly well acted. It may have been good to a casual Star Wars fan.

Now the bad, and yes, I realise some of this is nitpicking.

• The opening crawl. Palpatine's reveal relegated to a sentence. "Guess what guys? He's back." Ok fine, how? Why? And not only is he back, but he's broadcasting his presence to the whole galaxy. Why would he do that? Just stupid IMO. It seemed obvious to me that the Emperor was never meant to appear in this trilogy and added in last minute.
• The Sith way finder McGuffins
• The Emperor had a son - why was he never mentioned before? Why was he not powerful in the force? Why was he even needed in the first place. Palps could have just created Rey like it's implied he did with Anakin.
• The editing and cuts are obvious. Who was the slug looking guy (Claude?) fixing the falcon? Why was he only shown once with no explanation? The scenes with Leia were forced. They built them around the footage they had (obviously) but they didn't fit well and seemed out of place. The scene at the end with Lando and what was at one point rumoured to be his daughter. Their dialogue made no sense and was creepy as a result.
• Retroactively making Leia very powerful in the force.
• All the sudden light speed skipping is a thing.
• Force healing. Why was this never shown in the OT or the PT? It could have changed so much if it was. Who taught Rey how to do it? Who taught Ben how to do it? Why couldn't anyone else ever do it?
• Discrepancies for the sake of fan service. All the sudden Luke says that a lightsaber needs to be treated with respect despite what he did in episode 8. Rose is all the sudden a background character. Yeah, I didn't like her but still, it's inconsistent.
• More planet killing weapons.
• What happened to Luke's green lightsaber? We see it in flashbacks in this trilogy but never in real time, and it's never explained what happened to it.
• Ships that are old as shít just fire right up and work. Luke's X-wing and that one that dropped off Rey.
• The whole thing felt forced, sloppy and thrown together last minute.

[drotto]

24 minutes ago, Foley said:

 

• Ships that are old as shít just fire right up and work. Luke's X-wing and that one that dropped off Rey.

Someone posted a comparison of the TLJ underwater X-Wing compaired with Rey pulling the fighter out of the water. In TLJ it is clearly unusable.  There are holes in the wings, the canopy may be missing, the left lower wing looks to be detached, numerous panels around the body and engines are missing.

 

https://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=https%3A%2F%2Fstatic2.srcdn.com%2Fwordpress%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2017%2F09%2FStar-Wars-8-Last-Jedi-Submerged-X-wing-cropped.jpg%3Fq%3D50%26fit%3Dcrop%26w%3D740%26h%3D370&imgrefurl=https%3A%2F%2Fscreenrant.com%2Fstar-wars-last-jedi-luke-skywalker-x-wing-destroyed%2F&tbnid=50XW-ghBG4IjfM&vet=12ahUKEwjI9tTF3cnmAhUFSVkKHQ8yAzEQMygBegUIARDnAQ..i&docid=PKXl7LPI11683M&w=740&h=370&q=last jedi x wing in water to the rise of skywalker&ved=2ahUKEwjI9tTF3cnmAhUFSVkKHQ8yAzEQMygBegUIARDnAQ

Edited December 22, 2019 by drotto

[Gatsby77]

55 minutes ago, Foley said:

This movie failed on so many levels for me, but let's start with the good: It was visually appealing. It was fairly well acted. It may have been good to a casual Star Wars fan.

Now the bad, and yes, I realise some of this is nitpicking.

• The opening crawl. Palpatine's reveal relegated to a sentence. "Guess what guys? He's back." Ok fine, how? Why? And not only is he back, but he's broadcasting his presence to the whole galaxy. Why would he do that? Just stupid IMO. It seemed obvious to me that the Emperor was never meant to appear in this trilogy and added in last minute.
• The Sith way finder McGuffins
• The Emperor had a son - why was he never mentioned before? Why was he not powerful in the force? Why was he even needed in the first place. Palps could have just created Rey like it's implied he did with Anakin.
• The editing and cuts are obvious. Who was the slug looking guy (Claude?) fixing the falcon? Why was he only shown once with no explanation? The scenes with Leia were forced. They built them around the footage they had (obviously) but they didn't fit well and seemed out of place. The scene at the end with Lando and what was at one point rumoured to be his daughter. Their dialogue made no sense and was creepy as a result.
• Retroactively making Leia very powerful in the force.
• All the sudden light speed skipping is a thing.
• Force healing. Why was this never shown in the OT or the PT? It could have changed so much if it was. Who taught Rey how to do it? Who taught Ben how to do it? Why couldn't anyone else ever do it?
• Discrepancies for the sake of fan service. All the sudden Luke says that a lightsaber needs to be treated with respect despite what he did in episode 8. Rose is all the sudden a background character. Yeah, I didn't like her but still, it's inconsistent.
• More planet killing weapons.
• What happened to Luke's green lightsaber? We see it in flashbacks in this trilogy but never in real time, and it's never explained what happened to it.
• Ships that are old as shít just fire right up and work. Luke's X-wing and that one that dropped off Rey.
• The whole thing felt forced, sloppy and thrown together last minute.

• I didn't mind Leia suddenly being very powerful in the force. Recall that she received Luke's telepathic message all the way back in Empire, and she flew through space in The Last Jedi. Showing her training with Luke was actually a high-point for me. Of *course* she would train to be a Jedi post-ROTJ, once she discovered she was Luke's sister and thus force-sensitive.
• I *hated* that Luke's ghost caught Rey's lightsaber and chided her about treating it with respect -- just moments after we saw Kylo Ren realize his true destiny and throw away his own lightsaber -- just as Luke had in both ROTJ and TLJ. I've said it before and I'll say it again - the saga is absolutely consistent in portraying that true Jedi mastery = realizing that you don't need a lightsaber after all.
• The most idiotic part of the film for me was the force healing-bring-back-from-the-dead power. Had that actually been a thing, Anakin could have resurrected Padme and Luke could have saved his father in ROTJ. Clearly made up for this film, and invalidates much of the first six films.
• Chewbacca should have stayed dead when the cruiser blew up. I *love* Chewie, but that would have given greater weight - and stakes - to the proceedings.

Edited December 22, 2019 by Gatsby77

[Rip]

46 minutes ago, drotto said:

Someone posted a comparison of the TLJ underwater X-Wing compaired with Rey pulling the fighter out of the water. In TLJ it is clearly unusable.  There are holes in the wings, the canopy may be missing, the left lower wing looks to be detached, numerous panels around the body and engines are missing.

 

https://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=https%3A%2F%2Fstatic2.srcdn.com%2Fwordpress%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2017%2F09%2FStar-Wars-8-Last-Jedi-Submerged-X-wing-cropped.jpg%3Fq%3D50%26fit%3Dcrop%26w%3D740%26h%3D370&imgrefurl=https%3A%2F%2Fscreenrant.com%2Fstar-wars-last-jedi-luke-skywalker-x-wing-destroyed%2F&tbnid=50XW-ghBG4IjfM&vet=12ahUKEwjI9tTF3cnmAhUFSVkKHQ8yAzEQMygBegUIARDnAQ..i&docid=PKXl7LPI11683M&w=740&h=370&q=last jedi x wing in water to the rise of skywalker&ved=2ahUKEwjI9tTF3cnmAhUFSVkKHQ8yAzEQMygBegUIARDnAQ

The door in his hut was made from his X-wing so yea they certainly took some liberties on that one.

[Rip]

30 minutes ago, Gatsby77 said:

• I didn't mind Leia suddenly being very powerful in the force. Recall that she received Luke's telepathic message all the way back in Empire, and she flew through space in The Last Jedi. Showing her training with Luke was actually a high-point for me. Of *course* she would train to be a Jedi post-ROTJ, once she discovered she was Luke's sister and thus force-sensitive.
• I *hated* that Luke's ghost caught Rey's lightsaber and chided her about treating it with respect -- just moments after we saw Kylo Ren realize his true destiny and throw away his own lightsaber -- just as Luke had in both ROTJ and TLJ. I've said it before and I'll say it again - the saga is absolutely consistent in portraying that true Jedi mastery = realizing that you don't need a lightsaber after all.
• The most idiotic part of the film for me was the force healing-bring-back-from-the-dead power. Had that actually been a thing, Anakin could have resurrected Padme and Luke could have saved his father in ROTJ. Clearly made up for this film, and invalidates much of the first six films.
• Chewbacca should have stayed dead when the cruiser blew up. I *love* Chewie, but that would have given greater weight - and stakes - to the proceedings.

I agree with most of these. Really liked Leia scenes. Athough with the force healing and Chewie I'm not so sure I agree. Although Chewie was a bit mechanical overall.

I did see Force healing as been around for a while in some of the older books etc. although not the movies. I think that had more to do with not every Jedi has the same powers. Baby Yoda also force heals.

The bring back from the dead thing; Rey and Kylo were also a connected force dyad I'm not sure they would have the power to do this to others.

 

Also not sure how he would bring back Padme (etc) if its even possible without him killing himself and her body being buried for a while, digging it up etc.

Edited December 22, 2019 by Rip

[Get Marwood & I]

1 hour ago, Foley said:

This movie failed on so many levels for me, but let's start with the good: It was visually appealing. It was fairly well acted. It may have been good to a casual Star Wars fan.

Now the bad, and yes, I realise some of this is nitpicking.

• The opening crawl. Palpatine's reveal relegated to a sentence. "Guess what guys? He's back." Ok fine, how? Why? And not only is he back, but he's broadcasting his presence to the whole galaxy. Why would he do that? Just stupid IMO. It seemed obvious to me that the Emperor was never meant to appear in this trilogy and added in last minute.
• The Sith way finder McGuffins
• The Emperor had a son - why was he never mentioned before? Why was he not powerful in the force? Why was he even needed in the first place. Palps could have just created Rey like it's implied he did with Anakin.
• The editing and cuts are obvious. Who was the slug looking guy (Claude?) fixing the falcon? Why was he only shown once with no explanation? The scenes with Leia were forced. They built them around the footage they had (obviously) but they didn't fit well and seemed out of place. The scene at the end with Lando and what was at one point rumoured to be his daughter. Their dialogue made no sense and was creepy as a result.
• Retroactively making Leia very powerful in the force.
• All the sudden light speed skipping is a thing.
• Force healing. Why was this never shown in the OT or the PT? It could have changed so much if it was. Who taught Rey how to do it? Who taught Ben how to do it? Why couldn't anyone else ever do it?
• Discrepancies for the sake of fan service. All the sudden Luke says that a lightsaber needs to be treated with respect despite what he did in episode 8. Rose is all the sudden a background character. Yeah, I didn't like her but still, it's inconsistent.
• More planet killing weapons.
• What happened to Luke's green lightsaber? We see it in flashbacks in this trilogy but never in real time, and it's never explained what happened to it.
• Ships that are old as shít just fire right up and work. Luke's X-wing and that one that dropped off Rey.
• The whole thing felt forced, sloppy and thrown together last minute.

Here's a few more:

• The inconsistent use of Rey's powers - one minute she can hold a billion ton space ship from accelerating away, the next she can't levitate out of a sand pit. One minute she can levitate with huge rocks circling her, the next she has to cross a short choppy sea in a stolen skimmer (so the bird who owns it can have a chat with Finn and make him feel useful)
• Sixty bazillion Star Destroyers and eighty bazillion million Storm Troopers can't stop a handful of people landing on the big one on horses and bringing the whole thing down
•  A nine film / 45 year story arc culminates in a battle between good and evil and evil is defeated in six seconds. Bye bye Palpatine. No need to drag any emotion or significance out of the scene. No words, facial expressions. Just Rey is tougher and melts him in six seconds.
• The Force Ghosts (?) in Palpatine's arena didn't do a round of 'dem bones'. Missed opportunity
• Leia only ever seen from the one angle. Not in the least bit awkward looking was it. Always use her best side. 
• C3PO centre stage. R2D2 relegated. Split up the double act why don't you. Too much general droid praise to the point where it was oddly noticeable
• The need to do something somewhere so we can beat the Empire. Only funny dwarf loon can open C3PO's head. No one else in the universe. But we'll do it
• Chewie dead! Chewie not dead!  Zero sacrifice / emotion
• C3PO effectively dead! (mind wipe). C3PO not dead! (mind restored). Zero sacrifice / emotion. I want to take one last look....at my friends. Oh, no, I can see them again.
• Horrifically forced interplay - you're an annoying one etc. 
• All the old ones look awful. Luke looks like his head is five times bigger than his body. Han has had his eyes done. Lando has eaten Chewie's brother. And other such pies. Leia isn't there. Thay all have aged badly and look rough.
• Finn. Why?
• "I have a bad feeling about this". May as well have said it when visiting the toilet.
• Rose doing the plans. Great, I hated her. Better to kill her. Drag some purpose out of her, please. 

All that aside, it was a badly made film. Choppy editing, frantic pace. The story was poor. What actually was the story, really? Once you take away the dazzling visuals, which we are all now accustomed to, you need a strong narrative. Strong characterisation. It wasn't there. If I read that 'someone in the office' meddled / insisted on this being cut / this added etc I'll post them a Bantha fodder sandwich. 

If I was ten, as I was when I saw Star Wars, maybe I would be more forgiving. Maybe I wouldn't. The story was just bad. Just a sequence of 50 scenes, some brilliant, some awful, many pointless, stitched randomly  together. That is not a film. That is a youtube video playlist.

 

[Get Marwood & I]

1 hour ago, Gatsby77 said:

The most idiotic part of the film for me was the force healing-bring-back-from-the-dead power. Had that actually been a thing, Anakin could have resurrected Padme and Luke could have saved his father in ROTJ. Clearly made up for this film, and invalidates much of the first six films.

Maybe Rey and Kylo were so powerful, even moreso than Luke and pre-Darth Anakin, that they tapped into the lighter side of Darth Plagueis' work...

[Bosco685]

Wow!

 

[Bosco685]

No worries. It's been corrected.

[media_junkie]

18 minutes ago, Bosco685 said:

Wow!

 

That is awesome.