I wish CGC did signature verification like CBCS 0

[comix4fun]

2 minutes ago, Angelo. said:

I like and use both companies. I think CBCS is a positive contributor to this hobby. They elevate it. There's room for both. It shouldn't be a competition amongst the hobbyists....the let companies battle it out...let the hobbyists use the positives that both companies offer. If you feel one company isn't offering something positive, fine, but don't get in the way of people who do. There's room for both.

I absolutely agree. 

There's room for both. The relative pro's and con's of various services, regardless of who provides them, was the subject I was speaking to. 

[Genuine Article Comics]

5 minutes ago, Bax77 said:

Looks like they pulled my link to the CBCS board? Harumph. It's easy to find, it's currently at the top.

Here's a recent quote that's telling. Posters over there don't care about accuracy or honesty, they just want to bash CGC.

"CGC's negative reaction to the concept of VSP sounds a lot like sour grapes."

 

This is where we disagree. We do care about accuracy and honesty....just as much as you do. We also believe in the authentication process...that's it. We believe in it and you don't period. Believing in the authentication process is not the same as not believing in accuracy and honesty.

[Genuine Article Comics]

1 hour ago, 50 Fiddy said:

I'm sure they will be here for a while.  Since they launched their census, I looked up a couple recent "hot" books and was surprised at the difference between the number graded between the two companies.  The total number graded is not even close.  Doesn't look too legit to me.

Hell Arisen #3

CGC
Total 944 0 78 0 1022
Total 116 0 19 0 135
Total graded 1157

CBCS
Year of the Villain: Hell Arisen (DC - 2020) Ricardo Federici Variant 3 0 0 5 4 2 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 11/0
Year of the Villain: Hell Arisen (DC - 2020) 3 0 0 17 5 1 1 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 25/0
Total graded 36

Batman 89

CGC
Regular Cover Total 437 3 87 0 527
Variant Cover Total 195 0 35 0 230
Total 757

CBCS
Batman (DC - 2020) Francesco Mattina Variant 89 0 0 12 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 12/0
Batman (DC - 2020) 89 0 0 32 2 0 0 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 35/0
Total 47
 

 

Did you really think it would be different? Come on,  CGC is Goliath to CBCSs David...there's no dispute who the heavyweight is....but again I reiterate; there's room for both.

[Semicentennial]

1 minute ago, Angelo. said:

Did you really think it would be different? Come on,  CGC is Goliath to CBCSs David...there's no dispute who the heavyweight is....but again I reiterate; there's room for both.

CGC was around many years before they started so of course there will be more CGC books graded than them, but for something that recent I think it's kind of embarrassing.  If the low totals were attributed to PGX instead of CBCS then it would make sense, but jeez...36 of one and 47 of the other?  That's pretty low.

 

[Genuine Article Comics]

23 minutes ago, Bax77 said:

The real question is why would people so loyal to CBCS want CGC to start this program? Are they willing to change their loyalties so easily? That would indicate that they think CGC is the superior product, no?

Or are we talking magazines only? Doubtful.

It's not about changing loyalties...its about  recognizing a valuable service to the hobby.  Even if I was 100% loyal to CBCS and 100% against CGC, I would never want CGC gone from the hobby. Legitimate grading companies are good for our hobby, legitimate competition is good. I believe they provide a valuable service to us. I like CBCSs grading, I like their slabs and labels. I like CGCs as well which is why I'm a customer of both. I support the companies that support, bolster and champion our great hobby.

 

Edited May 2, 2020 by Angelo.

[Genuine Article Comics]

9 minutes ago, Bax77 said:

I cut off the portion irrelevant to this discussion.

So if CGC did start up this service, how would it be a benefit to CBCS?

Or are you saying you guys are such autograph lovers that, although you would never use CGC, you feel bad that the people who only use CGC will never get to enjoy their sigs "authenticated" inside a slab?

Yeah, that's rhetorical sarcasm.

...and yet another example of "rhetorical sarcasm" in what should be a legitimate conversation on elevating our hobby. You're not interested in moving the hobby forward and upward. You've already decided CGC is the end all and be all and competition can't possibly benefit the hobby.  I'm out. Thanks.

[BladeTX]

Having read through this, there really is room for CGC to create a new colored label and use an expert signature verification service.   Why not?  Maybe it isn’t perfect but let the buyer choose?  Seems fair to me.  Keep buying Sig Series if you want the 100% guarantee.   Buy the other based on expert opinion.  Seems like an opportunity to me though I do understand the earlier arguments about how fakes being an issue.  IDK... put it out there and let the buyer decide.

[Gaard]

CBCS CBCS forum members

[Gaard]

they?

[revat]

What was the question?

[Myowncollector]

9 hours ago, Angelo. said:

If by B team, you mean CBCS, never happen. Their product is too good to go away. They're legit and here to stay...and as hobbyists we should encourage it.

That's who I meant. Not even close to CGC in market share. Slabs sell for a good percentage less. A lot of people don't want them. If CGC authenticated Signatures they would be hurting. I personally like the b team. They do some things CGC should be doing as well. But the majority of the consumers have spoken. They want cgc and are willing to pay more for cgc. 

[Myowncollector]

5 hours ago, 50 Fiddy said:

CGC was around many years before they started so of course there will be more CGC books graded than them, but for something that recent I think it's kind of embarrassing.  If the low totals were attributed to PGX instead of CBCS then it would make sense, but jeez...36 of one and 47 of the other?  That's pretty low.

 

Yeah just look at auctions. If I see a cbcs and someone is in the room with me I punch them on the arm, it's like spotting a vw Beatle. If cgc authenticated signatures then in 2 years seeing a cbcs book would be like spotting sasquatch. It would just be Steve over there grading, shipping, answering the phones. 

Competition is great. Wish it was better. They are the Washington Generals. Most people using them are signatures peoole or know their employees, or had such a bad experience with cgc that they will take a decrease in value on their books just to spite them. I love cbcs, buy their books for a discount all the time. Good product. Would I send books to them to slab, never. Whatever company increases the value of my books the most will be the number 1 factor. Just being real. 

[Myowncollector]

4 hours ago, Bax77 said:

Same goes for CGC but if you read the CBCS board they are predisposed to dislike CGC. Buncha homers.

Agree. Some are real open minded honest. Most are just former disgruntled cgc customers.

[Gaard]

10 hours ago, Bax77 said:

They = the CBCS posters

By "CBCS posters", do you mean...

A) All of them

B) Most of them

C) Those who bash CGC

 

Now, if you please, reverse it. Using your quote  "... but if you read the CBCS board they are predisposed to dislike CGC ", switch CGC & CBCS. Now choose A, B, or C from above.

[Gaard]

9 hours ago, Myowncollector said:

Agree. Some are real open minded honest. Most are just former disgruntled cgc customers.

You have super powers?

[MR SigS]

23 hours ago, Angelo. said:

This is where we disagree. We do care about accuracy and honesty....just as much as you do. We also believe in the authentication process...that's it. We believe in it and you don't period. Believing in the authentication process is not the same as not believing in accuracy and honesty.

If you "care about accuracy and honesty....just as much as [CGC SS users] do", then that would suggest you put just as much faith in an unwitnessed 23 year old Jack Kirby sig as you would an Adam Hughes sig witnessed last year by a CGC AW. Does this also suggest that, once an unwitnessed sig is verified by BAS, you then believe 100% that it's the real deal? All doubt you may have had otherwise is erased? If not, then "just as much" isn't accurate, because the SS program removes that doubt- The SS customer never feels it, and they don't want to feel it. That's why they use the SS Program.

A friend gave me a CBCS Kamandi #1 with a VSP Label (Kirby- Cracked out by me so Mike Royer could sign it). Appreciating the gesture no less, I strongly suspect it was actually signed by either Roz, or perhaps Mark Evanier (or some other proxy). It could also be authentic. I'll never know, and even if the person(s) at BAS have a better guess, they could never know any more or less than I. There are many books released during the known years Kirby had proxy's signing books, and there are verified sigs from that period. There's a good chance some of them were proxy sigs. 

That there are accounts of people submitting books to CBCS, that they themselves got signed decades before, only to be told the sig can't be verified should be reason enough to question anything that is verified. If CBCS wants their Brand associated with this, fine. If CGC does not, just as fine, and for some better. 

I admit there are benefits in using the service if it saves someone from wasting [more] money on an obvious fake, but I completely understand and appreciate CGC wanting no part of it.

 

Spoiler

 

On 5/2/2020 at 12:22 PM, Bax77 said:

The real question is why would people so loyal to CBCS want CGC to start this program? Are they willing to change their loyalties so easily? That would indicate that they think CGC is the superior product, no?

Or are we talking magazines only? Doubtful.

It's interesting how many regulars post their big CGC returns there. That CGC books usually get more money is a quietly accepted fact there (many sellers), and it's been said their personal books go in CBCS slabs. I honestly respect any who admit as much, fwiw. It's just my opinion, but I think if "CBCS loyalists" want CGC to add this service, it's because of money.

[I like pie]

On 5/2/2020 at 10:07 AM, Angelo. said:

If by B team, you mean CBCS, never happen. Their product is too good to go away. They're legit and here to stay...and as hobbyists we should encourage it.

This made me chuckle considering they were inches away from going under not too long ago.

[theCapraAegagrus]

Nah. Integrity matters. Tegridy Farms.

[theCapraAegagrus]

2 minutes ago, Bax77 said:

It amuses me to no end that YOU are the voice of reason over on that CBCS thread  JesseO is the worst, he's just a terrible moderator. I love how he says there's a bunch of blatant examples and then he has to go back to April 2019 to find one  and it's from RMA no less, who had a real hardon for him.

There's some mutual bad blood between banned bois and Jesse. I just try to ignore it. He seems like an okay guy. I don't often interact with him. Honestly kinda surprised he hasn't given me a warning for some locked threads over there.

Some guys over there are simply easily-roped into hatred towards CGC (and/or the boards) for some reason. They're a smaller community, yet they seem to attract much more of those types of people per group-size. That's just from my limited experience (5 years reading the forums here and 3 years reading theirs - I joined both boards long after perusing).

My summary would mostly be: CGC seems to be more logical and CBCS seems to be more emotional. The majority of both communities is great, though. The CGC boards are more-populated and easier to find what I'm looking for, though, hence my abundance of activity here.

There's probably a 'little sibling' syndrome going on, too. CGC came first and is #1 in the business. The fans here aren't really concerned with anyone else. CBCS is, far-and-above IMO, #2. They're fighting for 'attention'.

It's virtually the same as the MCU vs Worlds of DC. There are DC fans who just hate everything Marvel because WB couldn't get their s^&* together to be enough competition for consumer attention. I like both Marvel and DC. I like both CGC and CBCS communities. You'll never completely avoid the competitive toxicity, though.

[Myowncollector]

4 hours ago, theCapraAegagrus said:

There's some mutual bad blood between banned bois and Jesse. I just try to ignore it. He seems like an okay guy. I don't often interact with him. Honestly kinda surprised he hasn't given me a warning for some locked threads over there.

Some guys over there are simply easily-roped into hatred towards CGC (and/or the boards) for some reason. They're a smaller community, yet they seem to attract much more of those types of people per group-size. That's just from my limited experience (5 years reading the forums here and 3 years reading theirs - I joined both boards long after perusing).

My summary would mostly be: CGC seems to be more logical and CBCS seems to be more emotional. The majority of both communities is great, though. The CGC boards are more-populated and easier to find what I'm looking for, though, hence my abundance of activity here.

There's probably a 'little sibling' syndrome going on, too. CGC came first and is #1 in the business. The fans here aren't really concerned with anyone else. CBCS is, far-and-above IMO, #2. They're fighting for 'attention'.

It's virtually the same as the MCU vs Worlds of DC. There are DC fans who just hate everything Marvel because WB couldn't get their s^&* together to be enough competition for consumer attention. I like both Marvel and DC. I like both CGC and CBCS communities. You'll never completely avoid the competitive toxicity, though.

More like Coke vs Faygo. Playstation vs Dreamcast. Blu Ray vs HD DVD. A solid product that could have, maybe even should have but never caught on with the consumer. People would rather buy their grader notes, deal with newton rings, not be able to get their signatures verified and pay more money for their books. They should be more relevant. I see why people like them. I like them. I like how you used to not be allowed to mention them on here. Maybe if we dont talk about them nobody will find out they even exist. Now they exhist barely. 10 20 years from now it will be. Oh wow look, it's a cbcs, I remember back when those were a thing.