The Distribution of US Published Comics in the UK (1959~1982) 15 15

[Albert Tatlock]

Jimmy Olsen was very tempted to work in the stamping shed, on piece work....

[Redshade]

On 7/21/2022 at 9:51 AM, themagicrobot said:

 

And still the unsolved question of what use the stamps were to T&P. To keep changing numbers would be a monumental task. Did it help the packing dept? I'm sure the kids buying their Superman family comics couldn't have cared less.

 

 

My view is that the numbers were used to differentiate the batches of comics that T&P received. (I know that I've said this before and I dare say I'll be saying it again).

A newsagent would have preprinted order forms for his daily, weekly and monthly needs. I can imagine him writing the amounts needed for the various publications in a given cycle beside each paper/magazine on his order lists, "50 Daily Blurb, 2 dozen Weekly Blah" etc.

These preprinted order forms would have blank spaces for miscellaneous items, "x dozen mixed US comics" for instance which the newsagent would order with his monthly stock and T&P would supply him with said US comics from their warehouse.

The comics themselves would have arrived "whenever" to the warehouse because of the vagaries of sea freightage, with different titles and different months arriving in a random order.

The order in which the comic titles/dates arrived at the warehouse would be immaterial to T&P as they would be stamped batch "6" for instance.

When the newsagent ordered the next month, T&P would know that last month the newsagents got the "6" stamp comics and so would try to ensure that this month they received the "7" stamp comics so that they did not receive duplicate issues.

 

 

Edited July 22, 2022 by Redshade

[Albert Tatlock]

On 7/21/2022 at 11:44 PM, Redshade said:

When the newsagent ordered the next month, T&P would know that last month the newsagents got the "6" stamp comics and so would try to ensure that this month they received the "7" stamp comics so that they did not receive duplicate issues.

But wouldn't everyone have got a batch of 6 stamps last time around, and wouldn't everyone receive a batch marked 7 the next time around?

The one the newsagent would have wanted to stay clear of was a bunch of 5s.

[Get Marwood & I]

 

[Redshade]

On 7/22/2022 at 12:07 PM, Albert Tatlock said:

But wouldn't everyone have got a batch of 6 stamps last time around, and wouldn't everyone receive a batch marked 7 the next time around?

Yup! Exactly.

On 7/22/2022 at 12:07 PM, Albert Tatlock said:

The one the newsagent would have wanted to stay clear of was a bunch of 5s.

[Redshade]

On 7/22/2022 at 12:12 PM, Get Marwood & I said:

 

Well, I'd forgotten about that particular televisual entertainment. This must be when I first fell in love with Lesley Manville.

[Malacoda]

On 7/21/2022 at 11:44 PM, Redshade said:

My view is that the numbers were used to differentiate the batches of comics that T&P received. (I know that I've said this before and I dare say I'll be saying it again).

A newsagent would have preprinted order forms for his daily, weekly and monthly needs. I can imagine him writing the amounts needed for the various publications in a given cycle beside each paper/magazine on his order lists, "50 Daily Blurb, 2 dozen Weekly Blah" etc.

These preprinted order forms would have blank spaces for miscellaneous items, "x dozen mixed US comics" for instance which the newsagent would order with his monthly stock and T&P would supply him with said US comics from their warehouse.

The comics themselves would have arrived "whenever" to the warehouse because of the vagaries of sea freightage, with different titles and different months arriving in a random order.

The order in which the comic titles/dates arrived at the warehouse would be immaterial to T&P as they would be stamped batch "6" for instance.

When the newsagent ordered the next month, T&P would know that last month the newsagents got the "6" stamp comics and so would try to ensure that this month they received the "7" stamp comics so that they did not receive duplicate issues.
 

This idea is extremely seductive. The thing I struggle to answer any other way is: why else would they have stamped every individual comic?  It was a Herculean effort....to what purpose?  The comics would have been bundled up and have an inventory / batch description / summary sheet etc at every leg of their journey, including arrival at T&P and at the retailers / newsagents.  The point at which that would have fallen into complete disarray was after they had been on shelves for x amount of time.  And the numbers would have told you what that X was by comic and without needing to check anything else. 

OK, so for proponents of this theory (yourself, Albert & others) .....do you accept Marwood's contention that the system broke down around 64/65 and if so, what's your take on that?  I mean, how is it possible that it broke down if it was an indispensable part of the distribution system and what, if anything, could have replaced it?  And if some easier, more efficient & readily available system existed, why wasn't it put into effect before Ethel stamped literally millions of comics? 

I want to believe. 

 

 

Edited July 24, 2022 by Malacoda

[Redshade]

On 7/24/2022 at 1:39 AM, Malacoda said:

. 

OK, so for proponents of this theory (yourself, Albert & others) .....do you accept Marwood's contention that the system broke down around 64/65 and if so, what's your take on that?  I mean, how is it possible that it broke down if it was an indispensable part of the distribution system and what, if anything, could have replaced it?  And if some easier, more efficient & readily available system existed, why wasn't it put into effect before Ethel stamped literally millions of comics? 

I want to believe. 

 

 

 

You'll have to remind me what Marwood's contention that the system broke down around 64/65 was. Was this when the numbers went haywire? Is that what you are referring to?
Perhaps they found a new method of stock control? As to what that might have been I have no idea. Bar codes? Probably too early for that although perhaps that system - or something similar might have been in use in the freight business before it percolated down to retail in the same way that restaurants etc had microwave ovens a long time before they were available for domestic use?
The comics would still have to be individually price stamped for the benefit of the retailer and customer but which number stamps they used no longer mattered. And then at a later date new price stamps arrived without a reference number on them, just the price and the T&P logo.
 

Edited July 24, 2022 by Redshade

[themagicrobot]

To recap previous posts in this never-ending thread of the mystery of the distribution of US published comics in the UK 1959-1982:-

The newsagents needed to know what price to sell them for and the kids buying the comics needed to know how much to pay for them as those mysterious symbols 10c or 12c or 25c didn't make much cents/sense to us.

An ink price stamp had worked well in the 1950s for pulps and other magazines that had found their way to our shores. Price stickers were still exotic and price-guns that could have speeded up the job with rolls of pre-printed stickers might not have yet been invented (I've not checked this however).

In the 1960s other distributors such as Millers and RV used ink stamps but didn't feel the need to regularly change stamps showing different numbers.

From the first imported comics T&P felt it necessary to use a numbering system of 1 to 9. Why 1 to 9? Were there 9 people in the stamping department? There may well have been but Albert has shown that consecutive comics in the early 1960s had consecutive numbers so if there were 9 people stamping the millions of comics they were using the same numbers at the same time.

Again, why numbers 1 to 9? If the stamps were changed when the next months comics were available why not use 1 to 12? Then each number would always represent the same month. That makes more cents/sense to me.

Albert has shown that consecutive comics in the early 1960s had consecutive numbers but there are many still examples to be found where the sequences aren't so consistent.

If T&P were receiving deliveries more often than once a month were the numbers a way of not mixing up comics/months?

If the numbers were to help the T&P reps remove old stock from the spinners couldn't they just as easily looked at the cover month clearly shown on the comics?

If the numbers indicated delivery batches why would they need to be on every comic, rather than the delivery paperwork/box/brown paper wrapping the batches were sent out in? 

And why, by the 1970s were T&P still using hand-held ink stamps but now the stamps just showed a price and their logo. The numbers had been dispensed with.

I suspect anyone who worked at T&P at the time that could offer an answer are long gone. If Ethel is still alive sadly she doesn't subscribe to these forums.

Will there ever be a solution to this puzzle or will it be one of those eternal mysteries of our land along with the Loch Ness Monster and the reasons for the building of Stonehenge.

Edited July 24, 2022 by themagicrobot

[Get Marwood & I]

Let's look at what we can prove, and what we know.

1. We know that T&P distributed American comics in the UK with cover dates starting from 1958 because we have thousands of surviving examples
2. As well as soliciting UK Price Variants with printed prices for some publishers for certain periods, we know that T&P also used a stamp to price cents printed comics imported to the UK
3. We know that the price stamp was applied by hand, as we can see it moving around the cover on multiple examples of the same issue
4. As well as the price, we know that stamp carried a number from 1-9. No higher number has ever been seen:
   
5. We know that the stamp numbers appear sequentially, broadly in line with calendar / comic cover months, on a repeating cycle. We know this having plotted thousands of examples of the first four cycles for all the DC title arrivals: https://boards.cgccomics.com/blogs/entry/5149-thorpe-porter-price-stamp-numbering/ This clearly shows us that there was a purpose to the numbers. They would not be issue / monthly sequential by chance
6. We see that the sequencing is not always precise - some monthly titles can have issues with stamp numbers that straddle one to two months. This is entirely to be expected given that the comics were unsold returns, finding their way back to base for onward distribution to the UK (a widely acknowledge likelihood, backed by documented recollections, common sense and the presence of US arrival stamps on UK distributed copies)
7. We know that other publishers did not have any need for numbers on their branded UK distribution price stamps, making the numbering unique to T&P:
   
8. We know that T&P dropped the numbering from their stamps around the time of decimalisation

We can all have a good go at hypothesising beyond the above facts and try to imagine what T&P were doing, why and whether it remained consistent throughout the numbered stamp period. I think we have done that now - possibly to death - and unless any new information comes to light we may have to accept that we may never know. For me, the confirmed sequencing of the numbers is the salient discovery, matching broadly as it does to the comics themselves and their likely sequential shipments into the UK. I can think of many ways as to how the numbering may have assisted the T&P operation but they are all supposition in the absence of evidence. I like a bit of supposition but there are limits. For now, I'm satisfied that it existed, the numbering, that it had a purpose linked to the natural sequence of monthly publications, and that it helped T&P operationally in some way. It would be nice to know precisely how of course, but I have other areas of investigation that I'd like to explore now. So until anyone finds a smoking gun - a historic record, or account from someone who was there - I'm moving on to other things.

Personally, I would love to see the thread go back to where it started - a review of the UK distribution of US comics for all publishers.

@Malacoda Rich - one thing I'd love to see from you is a one-stop graphic / summary of the hiatus periods with your summary as to why you believe each existed duly recorded. I've lost track of it all now, in the discussion. It's your work that has discounted the previous shipping strike theories, so you should do the summary. I'd like to see that. 

 

[Yorick]

Is it known how many warehouses T&P owned during this period?  I suppose all books would come to one location for stamping, but not necessarily return to that one location.

[Get Marwood & I]

[Malacoda]

On 7/24/2022 at 8:21 PM, Get Marwood & I said:

Hey, come on, Dude.  We get that the establishment of the sequentiality (our favourite word) is the end of the road for you, but others in the group would like to know what the numbers meant and what they were for.  Surely we can keep speculating?  Surely it's directly relevant to this thread? And maybe, just maybe, if we keep plugging away, we will find the answers...

 

[Malacoda]

On 7/24/2022 at 8:08 PM, Yorick said:

Is it known how many warehouses T&P owned during this period?  I suppose all books would come to one location for stamping, but not necessarily return to that one location.

At the risk of Marwood putting me over his knee, this is a key question.  You supposition is exactly correct.  

Brilliant as Steve Chibnall's article is, this is one area where it can give a decidedly wrong impression (or at least it did to me). 

I will be back to this. 

Edited July 25, 2022 by Malacoda

[Malacoda]

On 7/24/2022 at 11:23 AM, Get Marwood & I said:

Rich - one thing I'd love to see from you is a one-stop graphic / summary of the hiatus periods with your summary as to why you believe each existed duly recorded. I've lost track of it all now, in the discussion. It's your work that has discounted the previous shipping strike theories, so you should do the summary. I'd like to see that. 

You....you're actually asking for a hiatus theory summary.  OK, Pandora, hold my beer.  Seriously, how one-stop do you want it? Like a paragraph each?

[Malacoda]

On 7/18/2022 at 3:26 PM, themagicrobot said:

 

Detective Comics 317 was one of the first DCs I ever owned. Looking at the cover I thought Batman could fly just like Superman did.

Then 318 goes and spoils the stamp numbering sequence.

 

Why is this 319 10d?? Other 319s and later issues are still 9d.

 

Hey Robot...wanna buy Supes 193? 

I can do you a copy for 2/-. 

Or 1/9

Or 1/6

 

 

 

[Get Marwood & I]

On 7/25/2022 at 1:31 AM, Malacoda said:

Hey, come on, Dude.  We get that the establishment of the sequentiality (our favourite word) is the end of the road for you, but others in the group would like to know what the numbers meant and what they were for.  Surely we can keep speculating?  Surely it's directly relevant to this thread? And maybe, just maybe, if we keep plugging away, we will find the answers...

 

[themagicrobot]

Quote

Personally, I would love to see the thread go back to where it started - a review of the UK distribution of US comics for all publishers.

   

I acquired this particular comic and other FFs from the early 1960s cheaply back in the C20th (remember THAT world when comics were fun didn't cause arguments) from a "collector" who had (at considerable expense and shipping from the US) upgraded his collection to "proper" cents copies and was happy to weed out those pesky inferior pence ones spoiling his run.

[Redshade]

On 7/24/2022 at 8:21 PM, Get Marwood & I said:

A bit harsh don't you think Steve? The bloke's only trying to join in.

[Get Marwood & I]

On 7/25/2022 at 1:36 PM, Redshade said:

A bit harsh don't you think Steve? The bloke's only trying to join in.

It's just my humour that you're not getting Stephen - Yorick and I get on fine and I'm sure he'll get the joke and laugh when he next logs on.