The Distribution of US Published Comics in the UK (1959~1982) 15 15

[LowGradeBronze]

On 9/14/2022 at 4:37 PM, Malacoda said:

Can I ask ...where was this shop? Which town are we in? 

This was Seaford in East Sussex in the 70s. One of at least six places around the town where Marvel's and DCs could be bought, including a cafe in the nearby park which had only DC and Atlas (Seaboard). Spoilt for choice. Just wish I'd had more money when I was ten.

[Redshade]

On 9/14/2022 at 8:29 PM, Redshade said:

I just saw this recent acquisition on a facebook page. CGC has correctly identified it as a Miller comic but then they spoil what little is left of their credibility by calling it a UK price variant.

 

Didn't CGC once have a "Foreign Comics" expert that they got rid of? Tim something?  

[Get Marwood & I]

On 9/14/2022 at 9:06 PM, Redshade said:

Didn't CGC once have a "Foreign Comics" expert that they got rid of? Tim something?  

He worked with the other lot I think, Stephen.

I suspect that Black Knight 'UKPV' label designation is a procedural mistake rather than a conscious version choice - they likely meant to select 'UK Edition'.

[Malacoda]

On 9/15/2022 at 1:34 PM, Get Marwood & I said:

I suspect that Black Knight 'UKPV' label designation is a procedural mistake rather than a conscious version choice - they likely meant to select 'UK Edition'.

Slabbing might pre-date the UK Edition nomenclature.  They only started using that recently, didn't they?

[Get Marwood & I]

On 9/15/2022 at 3:33 PM, Malacoda said:

Slabbing might pre-date the UK Edition nomenclature.  They only started using that recently, didn't they?

No, they always used "UK Edition" on both UKPVs and UK published books. It's one of the reasons I went into bat to get them to change it, to cement the distinction. 

[Malacoda]

On 9/14/2022 at 9:01 PM, LowGradeBronze said:

This was Seaford in East Sussex in the 70s. One of at least six places around the town where Marvel's and DCs could be bought, including a cafe in the nearby park which had only DC and Atlas (Seaboard). Spoilt for choice. Just wish I'd had more money when I was ten.

I love these kind of posts.  Marvel were being distributed by World, who were distributing through the absolute headline chains of national, regional and local distributors, so no surprise that there were plenty of their comics in your bog standard newsagents. T&P would have been distributing via sales reps working from a regional depot (maybe Eastbourne or Brighton, but could easily have been South London.....we forget how much less traffic there was in the 70's).  If I had been the T&P rep, a cafe which wasn't selling other comics is exactly where I would have taken my spinner rack. (Atlas Seaboard comics were also distributed by T&P).  

Did you have much experience of the 'seaside specials' ....the comics which were re-circulated to seaside leisure towns, typically in the summer?  Dare I ask....did you ever come across a Marvel Lucky Bag?  (I suspect these didn't get much beyond Manchester-Liverpool-Leeds-Sheffield). 

[Redshade]

On 9/15/2022 at 1:34 PM, Get Marwood & I said:

He worked with the other lot I think, Stephen.

I suspect that Black Knight 'UKPV' label designation is a procedural mistake rather than a conscious version choice - they likely meant to select 'UK Edition'.

It's still an error Steve, whatever the reason. I still think that they should allow the submitter some input into the identification process.

[LowGradeBronze]

On 9/15/2022 at 4:30 PM, Malacoda said:

I love these kind of posts.  Marvel were being distributed by World, who were distributing through the absolute headline chains of national, regional and local distributors, so no surprise that there were plenty of their comics in your bog standard newsagents. T&P would have been distributing via sales reps working from a regional depot (maybe Eastbourne or Brighton, but could easily have been South London.....we forget how much less traffic there was in the 70's).  If I had been the T&P rep, a cafe which wasn't selling other comics is exactly where I would have taken my spinner rack. (Atlas Seaboard comics were also distributed by T&P).  

Did you have much experience of the 'seaside specials' ....the comics which were re-circulated to seaside leisure towns, typically in the summer?  Dare I ask....did you ever come across a Marvel Lucky Bag?  (I suspect these didn't get much beyond Manchester-Liverpool-Leeds-Sheffield). 

Maybe some of the out of date comics I was seeing & buying were seaside specials as you put it. I do remember the multi bags but can't recall what it said on the header. When I did a paper round for 50 pence a go, (slave labour) the newsagent had them on one occasion and I remember asking to be paid with comics. One bag of 5x 12p Marvels (value 60p!) for 50 pence. Mine had an X-Men 113 on top but can't remember the others in the bag with it.

Edited September 16, 2022 by LowGradeBronze

[Malacoda]

On 9/16/2022 at 1:19 PM, LowGradeBronze said:

Maybe some of the out of date comics I was seeing & buying were seaside specials as you put it. I do remember the multi bags but can't recall what it said on the header. When I did a paper round for 50 pence a go, (slave labour) the newsagent had them on one occasion and I remember asking to be paid with comics. One bag of 5x 12p Marvels (value 60p!) for 50 pence. Mine had an X-Men 113 on top but can't remember the others in the bag with it.

Dude.  A Close Encounter of the 3rd Kind with a Marvel Lucky Bag (or similar.....I believe there were a few versions of this re-distributing tactic, Lucky Bags seems to be most often remembered, but there were others).  X men 113 would be some time after Sept 1978 and 12p was indeed the cover price at that point.  Very specific memories (but those memories are always crystal clear, aren't they?  For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face).  

Thank you for this.  There is zero chance that any of these survived in the bags and they were non-returnable, so if newsagents couldn't shift them, I imagine they just opened the bags up and priced them down or threw them out.  For that reason, people who distinctly remember buying them are the only resource left.  Of course, you bartered with the newsagent for your paper round money so your memory of this is all the more distinct. 

[Kevin.J]

On 9/16/2022 at 2:11 PM, Malacoda said:

Dude.  A Close Encounter of the 3rd Kind with a Marvel Lucky Bag (or similar.....I believe there were a few versions of this re-distributing tactic, Lucky Bags seems to be most often remembered, but there were others).  X men 113 would be some time after Sept 1978 and 12p was indeed the cover price at that point.  Very specific memories (but those memories are always crystal clear, aren't they?  For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face).  

Thank you for this.  There is zero chance that any of these survived in the bags and they were non-returnable, so if newsagents couldn't shift them, I imagine they just opened the bags up and priced them down or threw them out.  For that reason, people who distinctly remember buying them are the only resource left.  Of course, you bartered with the newsagent for your paper round money so your memory of this is all the more distinct. 

I have to say that as a kid I never seen a Marvel Lucky bag or any of the various type of bags, there was nothing like that around here.

I dunno about zero chance of some surviving, I think some always make it through somehow.

I have some older type multibags somewhere in my collection still unopened.

[Malacoda]

On 9/16/2022 at 2:31 PM, Kevin.J said:

I have to say that as a kid I never seen a Marvel Lucky bag or any of the various type of bags, there was nothing like that around here.

I dunno about zero chance of some surviving, I think some always make it through somehow.

I have some older type multibags somewhere in my collection still unopened.

Hi Kev - where's round here - Newcastle?   Any chances of some pics of multi bags? Would love to see them. Cheers

Edited September 16, 2022 by Malacoda

[Garystar]

On 9/16/2022 at 4:16 PM, Malacoda said:

Any chances of some pics of multi bags? Would love to see them. Cheers

As I mentioned before i’ve never seen or heard of Marvel lucky bags before. I’d be amazed if any multi-mags turned up with pence copies but here’s mine;

What I did notice was a mixture of direct and newsstand copies within same bag (no pence though).

Edited September 16, 2022 by Garystar

[Kevin.J]

On 9/16/2022 at 4:16 PM, Malacoda said:

Hi Kev - where's round here - Newcastle?   Any chances of some pics of multi bags? Would love to see them. Cheers

Yeah, Newcastle and the surrounding northeast area, I travelled as far as my bike could get me  

I dont have pics of my multibags anymore, they are lost on my old dead hard drive of my last PC

Only this one I took for another thread a while ago, this is the best one I guess, certainly the most valuable anyway.

 

 

 

[themagicrobot]

@Garystarand @Kevin.J did you buy all those multipacks from shops/newsagents right here in the UK? I would have thought at least one would have had a UK price sticker to help the retailer. As I have mentioned before, these things seem to have been common in the States but I never saw any bags of Marvels or DCs here myself. However I purchased Gold Key multibags in the 1960s. But these were always to be found in toyshops and Department stores rather than the usual booksellers/newsagents.

[LowGradeBronze]

The savings on multi bags wasn't huge, given you were buying all but one comic blind. 

[Garystar]

On 9/16/2022 at 7:10 PM, themagicrobot said:

@Garystarand @Kevin.J did you buy all those multipacks from shops/newsagents right here in the UK? I would have thought at least one would have had a UK price sticker to help the retailer. As I have mentioned before, these things seem to have been common in the States but I never saw any bags of Marvels or DCs here myself. However I purchased Gold Key multibags in the 1960s. But these were always to be found in toyshops and Department stores rather than the usual booksellers/newsagents.

I’ve bought all mine from dealers collectors. The only one I had back in the day came from a relative in Canada. I’ve always used to look out for them but  never seen one in a UK shop/newsagent. 

[Kevin.J]

On 9/16/2022 at 7:10 PM, themagicrobot said:

@Garystarand @Kevin.J did you buy all those multipacks from shops/newsagents right here in the UK? I would have thought at least one would have had a UK price sticker to help the retailer. As I have mentioned before, these things seem to have been common in the States but I never saw any bags of Marvels or DCs here myself. However I purchased Gold Key multibags in the 1960s. But these were always to be found in toyshops and Department stores rather than the usual booksellers/newsagents.

To my best recollection I have only ever bought them from someone else, like Garystar, I never saw any in a UK shop.

It may help if I can ever put my hands on mine as sometimes seeing certain books evokes the memory.

[Malacoda]

On 9/16/2022 at 7:10 PM, themagicrobot said:

However I purchased Gold Key multibags in the 1960s. But these were always to be found in toyshops and Department stores rather than the usual booksellers/newsagents.

Interesting. That, of course, is why they were invented.  In the US, Gold Key sold them in gas stations, 7-11's and convenience stores.  They were designed for places that were not on the sale-or-return map. By the sound of it, they took the same approach here.  

[Malacoda]

On 9/16/2022 at 10:35 PM, Garystar said:

I’ve bought all mine from dealers collectors. The only one I had back in the day came from a relative in Canada. I’ve always used to look out for them but  never seen one in a UK shop/newsagent. 

I suspect the numbers were low.  World's complaint to Marvel wasn't that they didn't know what to do with all the leftovers so much as 'please, sir, I'd like some more'.  For the first year and a half, they were only getting 10 or 11 titles per month (T&P's typical supply hadn't been that low since 1964 when there were only 10 titles). They were prohibited, for varying lengths of time, from distributing ASM, Hulk, Avengers, Fantastic Four, Xmen, Master of Kung Fu, Tomb of Dracula, the Defenders, Peter Parker SSM and anything else that had its own UK reprint title (including Star Wars) or was featured on the masthead.  And we all remember cycling round at least 10 newsagents trying to find our favourite titles. 

We don't know what the numbers imported were.  Estimates for how much of the print run was PV's seem to range between 2% and 5%.  The circulation stats submitted to the government may be extremely inaccurate / fictional.  But let's run with those for a second.   In the 70's, Avengers had print runs of c. 350k - 370k  (Spidey was more like 550k but World were denied him and the Hulk right through).   If you min/max that over the 2-5%, it means the total PV print run (and therefore the total UK order) was between 7,000 and 18,500 for a mid-selling title.  That's impossibly low. That's between 7 and 19 issues for each town & city in the UK.  I'm pretty sure London got more than 7 copies of each title because we had more than that just down my high street. So my takeaway from that is that we don't know what the numbers were, but the flavour I get is that returns for each title were in the hundreds, not thousands.  There were maybe a few thousand returns overall each month, so when you then put 5 or 6 in each lucky bag, you're only producing a few hundred lucky bags each month. 

That's all pure conjecture, but the fact that World seem to have needed nothing like the process T&P had for dealing with returns and none of us seem to have stumbled onto anything like the discount stamps, double doubles, annuals etc suggests to me that the numbers were minimal (until something suggests otherwise).  

 

[Malacoda]

On 9/16/2022 at 7:59 PM, LowGradeBronze said:

The savings on multi bags wasn't huge, given you were buying all but one comic blind. 

Yes, I'm surprised the pricing wasn't more attractive. It would explain why the newsagents tore them open and re-priced them. If you could re-sticker them at new prices, you probably only had to sell a couple of them to make a profit. I also wonder what the target market was?  Were they aimed at desperate parents trying to keep the kids quiet on long journeys or similar?  I got 50p per week pocket money once I turned 11 (1977), but before that 50p was an unthinkable sum.  And Grown Ups still called 50p 'ten bob' as if that was an even more unthinkable amount of money.  

Edited September 17, 2022 by Malacoda