The Distribution of US Published Comics in the UK (1959~1982) 15 15

[Malacoda]

On 9/22/2022 at 9:38 AM, themagicrobot said:

What do we make of Neither Marvel or DC shipped to the UK in the 60's and early 70's both had reprint deals with British and Australian publishers for their material. Unsold copies were sold via T&P some UK prices were printed on covers at their request.

Well, it's all correct information,,,,,

[Albert Tatlock]

On 9/22/2022 at 6:40 PM, Malacoda said:

Well, it's all correct information,,,,,

A highly entertaining read from that Kid bloke.

He would have been just the fellow to turn around the signposts in WWII to bamboozle the invading Panzers.

Maybe our black ops sent him to Calais to send them round in circles.

[Albert Tatlock]

This is from February 1963, so if stamped by T & P should have been 9d, not 10d.

Stamp resembles a T & P, but I reckon it was stamped across the Irish Sea, maybe without visiting Oadby.

[Albert Tatlock]

On 9/22/2022 at 4:47 PM, themagicrobot said:

I was buying new DCs in 1971 (and much earlier) and have never seen that insert

Just proves there’s still stuff out there to be discovered and complete the picture

I have posted this earlier, a while ago, no chance of remembering where.

My copy is creased and mottled with foxing and I have no recollection of where I picked it up. 

Presumably it was loose. If it had been between the pages of a comic it would be in as good shape as the Action associated one above.

Probably thousands printed, most immediately discarded.

[Malacoda]

On 9/2/2022 at 6:39 PM, Garystar said:

I wait until all episodes are available and then binge watch whole series so haven’t watched she-hulk yet. The trailer did appear to show daredevil in his Netflix costume but with hints of yellow. 

By the way, I think binging was necessary for Loki, Hawkeye, Falcon & WS and the Netflix shows, but I don't think you will gain from binging She Hulk. The episodes are all separate though related, and it's a much lighter tone. It's very much Byrne's She Hulk, breaking the 4th wall and where the comic parodied super hero comics, this does the same to the movie /TV genre.  That makes it sound quite naff, but it's actually rather fun. Support cast is great. 

Also, watching it each week, like we used to watch TV, is really nice in a way I can't quite define. 

[Kevin.J]

On 9/22/2022 at 11:07 AM, Malacoda said:

Lordy Mama.  You have a slabbed #48 signed by Stan?  OK.  That is quite some collection.  

Kev, while you're checking for SS 10, could you please also look for stamps of 15, 16 and 17.  There are plenty of PV's and unstamped cents copies, but no stamps found so far.  (Actually, I say plenty, #15 seems to be pretty rare despite being a PV).  

As Steve will tell you, I spent an entire year scouring the Tinternet for Avengers #9 and DD #4 before realising that I actually owned stamped copies of both.  And they're supposedly impossibly rare.  Nothing would surprise me. 

Soz guys, I cant put my hands on any SS duplicates, looked as much as I could for those and other things I have been wanting to find, waste of time and energy, all I can find are the 1& 4s that I took pics of years ago and the set that is in order in my collection. My 10 is a cents, no stamp. 15, 16 & 17 are all PV, no stamps.

My Avengers 9 is a cents no stamp and my DD4 is a PV, cant quite make out the stamp, maybe a #4

[Kevin.J]

On 9/22/2022 at 7:11 PM, Albert Tatlock said:

This is from February 1963, so if stamped by T & P should have been 9d, not 10d.

Stamp resembles a T & P, but I reckon it was stamped across the Irish Sea, maybe without visiting Oadby.

Yeah, correct its a 9d, mine looks like first stamp out of the pad, too much ink

 

[Kevin.J]

On 9/22/2022 at 10:39 PM, Malacoda said:

By the way, I think binging was necessary for Loki, Hawkeye, Falcon & WS and the Netflix shows, but I don't think you will gain from binging She Hulk. The episodes are all separate though related, and it's a much lighter tone. It's very much Byrne's She Hulk, breaking the 4th wall and where the comic parodied super hero comics, this does the same to the movie /TV genre.  That makes it sound quite naff, but it's actually rather fun. Support cast is great. 

Also, watching it each week, like we used to watch TV, is really nice in a way I can't quite define. 

I cant watch anything week to week, I havent seen Loki, Hawkeye, Falcon & WS, which do you recommend next for me?

I was gonna watch Jessica Jones then Defenders next, yeah, I know I am way behind.

Just binged Locke & Key, I bought the comics but never read any of them, thought it was fantastic, even my missus likes it.

We started off watching it together but as she works and I dont I just couldn't wait for her, she is about 4 episodes in, I have watched 3 seasons  

[Yorick]

On 9/22/2022 at 3:37 PM, Kevin.J said:

Just binged Locke & Key, I bought the comics but never read any of them

Have not read the comics?!!!

Oh my.  What a great series.  The show can't quite do it justice, but I'm happy that you'll enjoy the show more now due to not reading the comics. 

[Get Marwood & I]

Afternoon 

Way back on page four of this thread, over two years ago, I made my first entry regarding the distribution of Marvel Comics and noted that the stamped Thorpe & Porter copies began to appear during the first UK Price Variant hiatus:

Thanks to @Malacoda Richmond's subsequent sterling (heh heh) work, we know now that that hiatus was almost certainly the result of the 1964 UK Government's decision to raise the import tax by 15%, and the old 'dock strike' theories have long been jettisoned, if only by our merry band of pence participants.

The tables that I put together at the time, show the near seamless uniformity of the switch from printed UKPVs to stamped cents copies. Excluding annuals, Marvel had the following seventeen titles running during the October 1964~August 1965 UKPV hiatus window (click to enlarge / zoom in):

The four Millie & Patsy titles have no UKPVs or stamped copies in evidence, and only RHK #43, TTA #62 and TGK #75 are currently missing from the other tiles as stamped cents copies.

In most instances, the first stamped copies of each eligible issue have both 9d and 10d stamped copies in existence, indicating that the switch from 9d to 10d was almost immediate and that the tax increase was passed on straight away.

To populate the tables above, I created the folders below and gathered as many images as I could of each applicable issue: 

Here's the Spidey lot:

 

As a rule, only the issues that exist in the hiatus window exist - or perhaps should exist - as T&P stamped copies. So for Spidey, #17 was the last UKPV and, sure enough, issue #18 is the first of the stamped cents copies:

We have 9d stamped copies in existence, but also a 10d (which looks like one of @Albert Tatlock's suggested Irish ones?):

 

That pattern remains fairly consistent and you rarely get a stamped copy of the final UKPV issue turning up. Here is one example though - Kid Colt #119 which, despite being the final pre-hiatus UKPV, somehow found its way into the stamping pile (9d being right, given the timing):

This is probably because KCO #119 is one of the later November cover dated first wave UKPVs.

So, the principle is set that there will only be UKPVs up to the start of the first hiatus, followed by stamped cents copies until the hiatus ends and UKPVs return priced 10d, the new post-import tax rise price.

One thing I like to do though, as you've all guessed by now, is to look for the quirks and renegades and the books that don't play ball. Over the last few years I've been saving any examples of stamped books cover dated before the first UKPV hiatus. In theory, the books that somehow made their way back into the system.

Back to Spidey, we know that #18 is the first issue that should exist as a stamped book, but here are some examples that predate it:

That's #2, 3, 11 and 12 - and all UKPVs, note. I wonder how they got back into the stamping system? 

Note that the last two have the UK price inked out. On this issue #6 example, Ethel used that wonderful obliterator stamp to hide the UK price:

I love that stamp. And there's that non-standard 10d stamp again. Maybe that was the T&P 'repricing' stamp, given that it seems to appear predominantly on repriced issues? 

Anyway, I'm trying to find the earliest cover dated Marvel book that I can with a T&P stamp and have gathered quite a few examples, the earliest being the ASM #2 that I posted above - here it is again, in full:

But I'm happy to say that I have now beaten that May 1963 date by some margin today, and with a Marvel 'key' - step forward Two-Gun Kid #60 - ta-dahhhhh!

How cool is that!

It's a UKPV as expected, is cover dated November 1962, and even has the wonderful obliterator stamp:

 

Those stamps would put off 99% of buyers, likely reduce the value somewhat (who cares), but I LOVE IT.

I haven't included annuals in this exercise, and there are a good few stamped copies out there, but only the undated Strange Tales Annual #1 could challenge the Kid for the title so far:

 

Anyway, something to muck about with, on a quiet day in Blighty 

[Malacoda]

On 9/22/2022 at 11:37 PM, Kevin.J said:

I cant watch anything week to week, I havent seen Loki, Hawkeye, Falcon & WS, which do you recommend next for me?

I was gonna watch Jessica Jones then Defenders next, yeah, I know I am way behind.

Jessica Jones was far and away my favourite of the Netflix series.  If you haven't seen a lot of those, you have a unique opportunity to watch them in event order (which means jumping around between the series, but of course that's effortless these days). 

I've been watching the whole of Marvel in chronological order - so starting with the Cap 1 movie, then the Agent Carter TV series, the Agent Carter one shot, Xmen First Class, DOFP, Xmen Origins: Wolverine....you get the idea. All the movies, TV series & one shots from every studio, everything from Blade onwards. 
I can send you the viewing order if you REALLY want a binge. 

From the newer stuff, Wandavision is phenomenal.  You will realise why everyone has the knives out for Doc Strange 2 when you see it.  

Hawkeye is good fun. I always wanted the wisecracking, smug, pain-in-the-arse Hawkeye from the silver age, and this goes absolutely the opposite way with the family man angle, but I enjoyed it.  It's more like one of the Netflix series, IMO i.e. it has more of the street-level punch ups of say Daredevil than the cosmic villainy of the Avengers movies.  It’s also a kind of detective story so probably has more in common with Jessica Jones than the other Disney series.  No spoilers, but some familiar and welcome faces turn up too. 

F&WS - some amazing flying and action sequences. It's basically a 4th Captain America movie without Cap, probably closest in tone to the 2nd Cap film (globe-trotting spy movie).  It also struck me that what Marvel did quite badly in the 70’s when they tried to introduce more black characters, this does a lot better.  I think it was all done in quite a ham-fisted way when the Falcon was introduced in the comics and I think maybe they went back to that original intention and did it a lot better.  Or maybe I just think that because I always start from the comics and maybe the MCU doesn’t. 

Loki is full on bonkers. Where Hawkeye is like the Netflix series – bone crunching ‘real’ fights with occasional full on super hero effects and action, Loki is the exact opposite.  Full on cosmic time travelling science fantasy with a lot of comedy.  Big scale, big sets, lots of effects. Probably closest in tone to the 3rd Thor movie. 

 

 

[Malacoda]

On 9/23/2022 at 2:48 PM, Get Marwood & I said:

We have 9d stamped copies in existence, but also a 10d (which looks like one of @Albert Tatlock's suggested Irish ones?):

Thanks Steve.  A nice reminder of why we're here and a great one-hit refresher.

Re ASM #18, yes, we have stamped 9d's and the Obliterator + the mysterious 10d, but we also have 9d's replaced by the standard T&P 10d including the number. This indicates either that they got wind of the tax change in mid-batch (not likely, T&P would have re-priced the lot) or that the 10d were stragglers (possible), or most likely that they didn't necessarily stamp every issue of every title in one go, but rather got batches together for distribution.  Given T&P's system of reps coming from far and wide to load up the vans themselves, this would make sense. If your rep from the Outer Hebrides is coming down to wherever your most northern depot is, you're going to get his whole order of magazines, Mads, books & comics ready to get to that depot, not make him come back next week when all the comics have been stamped. 

Obviously we can't be definitive about anything where we only have single examples, but if this double stamped T&P Spidey 18 is indicative of anything, it surely scotches Ireland? Also, didn't we determine that the Irish comics were more expensive, not the same price? 

It might be that the Irish comics were returns, but then there would surely have been a lot more of them and also, from the quote Albert posted from Tony Roche, they seem to have turned up in the cover date month. 

 

 

 

[Albert Tatlock]

Here is another one with the alternative 10d stamp.

A cents copy, so not part of the original UKPV batch delivered to T & P.

Maybe from Ireland, maybe not, although they had their own distinctive import stamps, as shown below.

I would not yet put the variant 10d stamp into the list of mysteries never to be solved, with a little more digging we should be able to get there.

Does the variant 10d stamp have a 9d counterpart?

 

[Get Marwood & I]

On 9/23/2022 at 4:06 PM, Malacoda said:

Re ASM #18, yes, we have stamped 9d's and the Obliterator + the mysterious 10d, but we also have 9d's replaced by the standard T&P 10d including the number.

Yes, I've actually got quite a few examples in the files as it goes. It was just a throwaway thought, really.

One thing I've had on the back burner for ages is a sequential plotting of the various stamp types by date for DC, which I'll present something like this when its finished and tested:

It's still a long way off completion, but one early observation, which I'll try to firm up, is that often when the price changes, the unbranded stamps appear for a short spell. So it might be that they used a standard price-only stamp until they got the branded ones made.

[Get Marwood & I]

On 9/23/2022 at 6:10 PM, Albert Tatlock said:

Here is another one with the alternative 10d stamp.

 

Nice!

Here's a stamped FF#1 that I spotted online with a Marjorie Miller stamp:

Probably....

[Albert Tatlock]

On 9/23/2022 at 6:13 PM, Get Marwood & I said:

It's still a long way off completion, but one early observation, which I'll try to firm up, is that every time the price changes the unbranded stamps appear for a short spell. So it might be that they used a standard price-only stamp until they got the branded ones made.

So the 'topless' stamp is a stopgap while a new batch of stamps were on order?

Could be.

But where had the well out-of date ASM 6 and FF2 been for 1 and almost 3 years respectively?

At the back of the T & P warehouse, or on some other territory that used pence?

[Get Marwood & I]

On 9/23/2022 at 6:19 PM, Albert Tatlock said:

So the 'topless' stamp is a stopgap while a new batch of stamps were on order?

Could be.

But where had the well out-of date ASM 6 and FF2 been for 1 and almost 3 years respectively?

At the back of the T & P warehouse, or on some other territory that used pence?

Makes you wonder, doesn't it. And UKPVs most of them, too. 

[Albert Tatlock]

If the variant 10d stamp was a temporary solution to a price increase problem, there will be no corresponding 9d stamps.

 

[Get Marwood & I]

On 9/23/2022 at 6:26 PM, Albert Tatlock said:

If the variant 10d stamp was a temporary solution to a price increase problem, there will be no corresponding 9d stamps.

 

That's probably why I don't have an example in the files, Albert!

[themagicrobot]

Whilst you are in re-cap mode these are all definite Republic of Ireland stamps as the seller confirmed that their father purchased them in Dublin as a child. Comics were One Shilling there when ours were 10d and went up to 1/3 when ours went up to One Shilling. What we don't know is did these comics come from the States via T&P  or via some other distribution channel.

 

Edited September 23, 2022 by themagicrobot