The Distribution of US Published Comics in the UK (1959~1982) 15 15

[Get Marwood & I]

20 minutes ago, Get Marwood & I said:

Over time, I'll add in the examples that I have for the other publishers

One early thought - if my Charlton examples are more or less date sequential with their stamps, starting with '2' appearing on Feb 1959 copies and then moving up with the calendar months as you would expect, this could mean that the first ever US to UK comic shipment was well before the October DC ones which are often referred to as the first books arriving in the UK. It wouldn't make sense for T&P to start at stamp number '7' would it - they'd surely have started with stamp number 1 on the first ever shipment received? I'll try to present it later so that what is in my head translates more clearly on the page 

[Get Marwood & I]

1 hour ago, Get Marwood & I said:

One early thought - if my Charlton examples are more or less date sequential with their stamps, starting with '2' appearing on Feb 1959 copies and then moving up with the calendar months as you would expect, this could mean that the first ever US to UK comic shipment was well before the October DC ones which are often referred to as the first books arriving in the UK. It wouldn't make sense for T&P to start at stamp number '7' would it - they'd surely have started with stamp number 1 on the first ever shipment received? I'll try to present it later so that what is in my head translates more clearly on the page 

OK, not exactly the pattern I was expecting for all my Charlton Feb-59 to Aug-59 cover dated examples:

They're quite scarce, early T&P Charltons, so I don't have a huge number of examples to upload, but it looks like the '2' batch may have come over in 1960, not 1959, if that makes sense. But then again all those with a '1' are cover dated later than '2' so maybe they are '2' 1959 and '1' 1960, with '2' possibly being the first ever UK arrival? 

My head hurts.

Coincidentally, Dementia Patient Duty calls, so I'll hopefully be back later.....

[Albert Tatlock]

Thank you, Marwood,

I did notice at the time that the numbers on the price stamp were creeping up month by month, but I had no idea what lay behind it.

What we need, in order to set this on a firmer footing, is a long unbroken run of stamped pence copies, in a monthly title which was not in short supply and with a regular distribution pattern.

Best candidates would be Action, Adventure or Detective. 

Many of mine are unstamped, from when I upgraded them long ago, but, when time permits. I will sort through and document what I can.

From what I remember, the newsagents' deliveries were monthly, but that does not mean that the shipments were tied to any fixed date, that would have been at the mercy of the sailing dates available.

The numbers 1 to 9 were unconnected with the calendar or the date of printing. They relate only, I believe, to the order in which they were processed on arrival at Castle T & P.

That only 9 numbers are used could have an explanation as prosaic as a 1 digit stamp being cheaper than a 2 digit stamp.

Edited October 14, 2020 by Albert Tatlock
1 word omitted.

[OtherEric]

5 hours ago, Get Marwood & I said:

@Albert Tatlock

 

 I'm glad you chimed in now Albert and puled me away from the path of mumpsimony. Is that a word? It is now.

All good fun. 

It surely is a word, but I think you're using it wrong, with mumpsimony being a specific act of some sort.  I believe the path of mumpsimosity would be more correct here.

[OtherEric]

4 hours ago, Get Marwood & I said:

One early thought - if my Charlton examples are more or less date sequential with their stamps, starting with '2' appearing on Feb 1959 copies and then moving up with the calendar months as you would expect, this could mean that the first ever US to UK comic shipment was well before the October DC ones which are often referred to as the first books arriving in the UK. It wouldn't make sense for T&P to start at stamp number '7' would it - they'd surely have started with stamp number 1 on the first ever shipment received? I'll try to present it later so that what is in my head translates more clearly on the page 

Is it possible the stamp was already in use on non-comic magazines or something else, and just added to comics at this point? 

[Get Marwood & I]

1 hour ago, Albert Tatlock said:

Thank you, Marwood,

I did notice at the time that the numbers on the price stamp were creeping up month by month, but I had no idea what lay behind it.

What we need, in order to set this on a firmer footing, is a long unbroken run of stamped pence copies, in a monthly title which was not in short supply and with a regular distribution pattern.

Best candidates would be Action, Adventure or Detective. 

Many of mine are unstamped, from when I upgraded them long ago, but, when time permits. I will sort through and document what I can.

From what I remember, the newsagents' deliveries were monthly, but that does not mean that the shipments were tied to any fixed date, that would have been at the mercy of the sailing dates available.

The numbers 1 to 9 were unconnected with the calendar or the date of printing. They relate only, I believe, to the order in which they were processed on arrival at Castle T & P.

That only 9 numbers are used could have an explanation as prosaic as a 1 digit stamp being cheaper than a 2 digit stamp.

No, thank you Albert - this is your input my friend that has uncovered this pattern 

Here is an interesting summary sample that I put together this afternoon.

I took five key DC titles and looked on eBay at the stamps for their issues between the seven cover date months of December 1964 and June 1965.

Here are the results (click to enlarge):

 

First up, we can see the transition from the old numbered 10d stamps to the smaller unnumbered ones as being cover date June 1965. Serendipity, as I was planning to identify that month at some point.

For the issues preceding June 65, it's clear that the date sequential - and therefore, we assume, the shipment arrival sequence commences with stamp number 6. So, taking 'Action Comics' as an example:

• The number 6 stamp shipment included issue 319
• So did the number 7 shipment
• Nothing in shipment 8
• Then shipment 9 has issues 319, 320 and 321
• The next shipment restarted with stamp number 1 and dutifully has issue 322
• Then number 2 has issue 323 
• Number 3 has issue 324
• And then issue 325 doesn't register as it has the new stamp type without a number ending the numbering requirement (I wonder why?)

So there is a clear pattern / order there which the other titles more or less follow if you track them in the same way.

This is fairly ground breaking for me - a pattern and explanation for the existence of the early T&P stamp numbering that actually, and evidentially, makes sense. It is obvious really that the same issue would find its way into subsequent sequential shipments as the returns in the US would likely have been fairly inconsistent. I can't see that every US newsagent in every town would remove the same unsold books from sale at the same time and send them back to source for onward distribution to the UK.

I'm very pleased with this Albert. Well done mate.

 

[Get Marwood & I]

5 minutes ago, OtherEric said:

It surely is a word, but I think you're using it wrong, with mumpsimony being a specific act of some sort.  I believe the path of mumpsimosity would be more correct here.

It's not a word - I made it up Eric. Whenever you see me say 'is that a word...' that means it generally isn't. Unless it is of course 

[Get Marwood & I]

9 minutes ago, OtherEric said:

Is it possible the stamp was already in use on non-comic magazines or something else, and just added to comics at this point? 

I don't think so as I've only seen it on comics and a tiny handful of (later) magazines

 

[Get Marwood & I]

44 minutes ago, Get Marwood & I said:

It is obvious really that the same issue would find its way into subsequent sequential shipments as the returns in the US would likely have been fairly inconsistent. I can't see that every US newsagent in every town would remove the same unsold books from sale at the same time and send them back to source for onward distribution to the UK.

Case in point - three copies of Adventure Comics #331, one stamped 1, one stamped 2 and one stamped 3...

...indicating, if our new theory is right, that the US sellers took at least 3 shipment periods to return their unsold copies back to base!

And here's another example of a book that was presumably unsold in the UK for @Kevin.J

 

[Get Marwood & I]

On 9/20/2020 at 1:02 PM, Get Marwood & I said:

 

 

Focaccia!

 

Spoiler

 

It's a magazine, to be fair.

Still the biggest T&P price I've seen to date though

 

 

 

[Albert Tatlock]

 

1 hour ago, OtherEric said:

Is it possible the stamp was already in use on non-comic magazines or something else, and just added to comics at this point? 

Almost certainly, as the October 1959 issues are stamped with 6 or 7.

T & P would not have initiated a new numbering system just for comic books. More than likely they just slotted the newly arrived US additions to their roster into a pre-existing arrangement.

[Albert Tatlock]

1 hour ago, Get Marwood & I said:

No, thank you Albert - this is your input my friend that has uncovered this pattern 

Here is an interesting summary sample that I put together this afternoon.

I took five key DC titles and looked on eBay at the stamps for their issues between the seven cover date months of December 1964 and June 1965.

Here are the results (click to enlarge):

 

First up, we can see the transition from the old numbered 10d stamps to the smaller unnumbered ones as being cover date June 1965. Serendipity, as I was planning to identify that month at some point.

For the issues preceding June 65, it's clear that the date sequential - and therefore, we assume, the shipment arrival sequence commences with stamp number 6. So, taking 'Action Comics' as an example:

• The number 6 stamp shipment included issue 319
• So did the number 7 shipment
• Nothing in shipment 8
• Then shipment 9 has issues 319, 320 and 321
• The next shipment restarted with stamp number 1 and dutifully has issue 322
• Then number 2 has issue 323 
• Number 3 has issue 324
• And then issue 325 doesn't register as it has the new stamp type without a number ending the numbering requirement (I wonder why?)

So there is a clear pattern / order there which the other titles more or less follow if you track them in the same way.

This is fairly ground breaking for me - a pattern and explanation for the existence of the early T&P stamp numbering that actually, and evidentially, makes sense. It is obvious really that the same issue would find its way into subsequent sequential shipments as the returns in the US would likely have been fairly inconsistent. I can't see that every US newsagent in every town would remove the same unsold books from sale at the same time and send them back to source for onward distribution to the UK.

I'm very pleased with this Albert. Well done mate.

 

Reckon you owe me half a mild in t'Rovers.

[Get Marwood & I]

9 minutes ago, Albert Tatlock said:

1 hour ago, OtherEric said:

Is it possible the stamp was already in use on non-comic magazines or something else, and just added to comics at this point? 

Almost certainly, as the October 1959 issues are stamped with 6 or 7.

T & P would not have initiated a new numbering system just for comic books. More than likely they just slotted the newly arrived US additions to their roster into a pre-existing arrangement

On what though? Have you ever seen that T&P stamp on something other than an imported US comic?

There are a handful of UK publications that - oddly - have them, e,g. the One Shilling Gold Token Books...

...but what else would they have put them on?

I'm still looking at those earlier Charltons I posted about....

 

[Get Marwood & I]

4 minutes ago, Albert Tatlock said:

Reckon you owe me half a mild in t'Rovers.

And one of Betty's hotpots, I said one of Betty's hotpots! (Fred Elliott).

[Albert Tatlock]

5 minutes ago, Get Marwood & I said:

On what though? Have you ever seen that 9d stamp on something other than an imported US comic?

 

[Albert Tatlock]

T & P number stamp system already up and running for August 1959 imports.

[Get Marwood & I]

6 minutes ago, Albert Tatlock said:

 

Yes, 1958, the US original. The one I posted earlier is August 1961. Maybe these were the start. That one is a pence copy though - reprint.

[Get Marwood & I]

6 minutes ago, Albert Tatlock said:

T & P number stamp system already up and running for August 1959 imports.

That's more like it. Have you done the work already, or am I about to?  

[Albert Tatlock]

But it has a 2/6 stamp on a 2/6 cover.

Why stamp an already priced book?

Surely a shelf life indicator to retailer.

[Albert Tatlock]

The reprint, I mean.

It is printed 2/6, and they have stamped it 2/6.

The comics and magazine cover dates would not necessarily have been in sync, so the retailer would use the stamp number to tell when an item was close to getting out of date, irrespective of cover date.

Same applies to US copies - all the time we see arrival dates added by retailer. These also indicate when to pull that item.

And we also know that they are unsold US copies, because the dates are in the US (month followed by year) format, not the UK one.