Thoughts about buying grades 3 3

[Jesse-Lee]

So, I'm not new to comics in general, but definitely new to slabbed books and more "serious" collecting overall. One of the pieces of advice I've heard a time or two was to not buy moderns under a 9.8 if possible. But it got me thinking - there are a number of books I want that fall in the copper or modern category that either I can't necessarily afford in a 9.8, or if I try to buy raw, it's a crapshoot.

Here's an actual, tangible example: I really love the Wolverine #17 cover. Classic Byrne cover, Wolvie ready to strike on a simple red background. It sells lately between $125-$180 on eBay in a 9.8 (goCollect lists it at $180 FMV). In my budget situation right now, I could buy that single book and then nothing else for 2-3 months. Or I could buy a lower grade or raw copy and continue to buy other, lower priced stuff like new books and lower-priced back issues every couple of weeks.

Raw copies of that book typically sell between $8-$20 depending on grade, but you're relying on a seller's grading and some online photos, so you can't be assured of a high grade. I recently found a copy of Wolverine #17 in a CGC 9.2 for $45 shipped. So based on raw books, you're paying a $20 premium over a presumptive NM (using the $20 sales price for raw as a ceiling), but you're guaranteed a minimum 9.2 grade and your investment shouldn't really diminish over time if it's a solid performing book (vs. buying what you hope/think is a NM+ raw copy and having it come back an 8.5 for example).

Am I thinking about this wrong? Should I pass on 9.2, 9.4, etc and save for 9.8 only because of future investment? Or should you just buy what you like at good prices you find and rest assured in the fact that solid books should appreciate regardless of grade? Or am I just overthinking the whole thing? Either way, I freaking love that cover and have a sweet CGC NM- coming my way, and it looks great.

Edited August 29, 2020 by Jesse-Lee

[Joosh]

This is an issue I’ve dealt with as well. I imagine most collectors wanting graded books face this and have the same considerations you’ve detailed. 
It comes down to finding out what you want and why.

If maximum investment potential is desired, then go for the most proven best selling books in highest grade available. This is just a data and math exercise.

This doesn’t fit what you’ve explained though. It sounds like you want to have a book you like that can double as a sound investment. 
Going with the 9.2 instead of the 9.8 is perfectly fine. It saves money to get more 9.2’s. It’s not a great investment strategy for copper/modern books.

You’ve prioritized collecting what you like over what has best likely return. There’s no right or wrong here in my opinion. It will likely be more difficult to someday profit off of selling a collection of 9.2 copper/modern books that aren’t major key issues. That’s the cost of collecting what you want. It’s still a better hobby financially than almost all others, lol.

[Robot Man]

I find it hard to believe that there is a whole lot of “investment” potential in modern books. There are maybe a few exceptions but not being a modern guy, I wouldn’t know. They seem very fleeting and like a lot of things have a very short shelf life. Not to mention, there are tons of very high grade copies available. 

I have always said, buy what you like and pay what you can afford or are willing to. 

May the end of the day, there are very few people that can really tell the difference at the top few grades. Maybe just try reading them instead of just grading them...

[THE_BEYONDER]

Copper/modern is a different animal, but for bronze I find perfectly centered 9.4 copies with white pages are the best value.   Not all 9.4s are created equal, so you still have to examine the actual book.  To me, a 9.4 with perfect QP & White pages is superior to a miswrapped 9.6 ow/w.

[Pat Thomas]

It seems to me that 9.8 is given out at a pretty regular rate on modern comics, so there isn't anything "rare" about them. If you are in this to make a quick buck, 9.8 moderns is the way to go. But at some point people are going to realize there is no long term value in most of these books, and the 9.8 modern craze will be over. Buy nice raw copies of the books you like. Invest in Bronze Age and older comics with proven track records. Keep up with industry news and look for bargains that you think might have potential for growth. Read your new comics, put them in bags and put them up, and just take care of them. Just don't waste your money on an overpriced slabbed 9.8 comic that isn't a key.

[Hollywood1892]

For me it has to be 9.8 in recently produced books (moderns/copper/bronze)

And I have no preconceived thoughts on silver age-the grades don't really matter but the bulk of my silver age is 8.0-8.5

Edited August 29, 2020 by Hollywood1892

[Hamlet]

13 hours ago, Jesse-Lee said:

Raw copies of that book typically sell between $8-$20 depending on grade, but you're relying on a seller's grading and some online photos, so you can't be assured of a high grade. I recently found a copy of Wolverine #17 in a CGC 9.2 for $45 shipped. So based on raw books, you're paying a $20 premium over a presumptive NM (using the $20 sales price for raw as a ceiling), but you're guaranteed a minimum 9.2 grade and your investment shouldn't really diminish over time if it's a solid performing book (vs. buying what you hope/think is a NM+ raw copy and having it come back an 8.5 for example).

I’d go with raw copies rather than buying a CGC’d 9.2 given those price points.  You should be able to select raw books that are 9.2+, either by buying in person or by choosing sellers that are consistent graders.

You talk about being guaranteed a minimum grade by buying the 9.2 slab, but are also capping your maximum grade.  I’d rather carefully buy the raw books looking to do better than a 9.2 for half the money.

Of course, all of this depends on your goals and how you want to spend your time.  If you just want to get a decent copy of the book at a reasonable price and not have to spend a lot of time messing around online, I can see paying a $25 dollar premium just to be sure you are getting the book you want with a minimum of hassle.

[Artboy99]

stick to the raw book, especially if $180 for 1 cgc 9.8 kills your budget for 2-3 months

[F For Fake]

9.8's on coppers/moderns may be pricey specifically because they are 9.8's, not because the book is itself hard to find. Below that grade, they are largely common. If you love this book, you can get these routinely in $1-$5 bins in decent shape, and on ebay for under $20. I've personally bought and sold several of these in the $1-$10 range over the last few years that I dug out of the $1 bins. Maybe not 9.8, but certainly in NM condition. It's certainly not a hard book to find. Unless it's a book that you feel you just have to have in 9.8, I'd recommend getting a nice raw NM copy, put it in a mylar and half/full back, and enjoy it. Not worth paying that much for a book that is common in decent grade unless you just absolutely have to have it.

[jjonahjameson11]

1 hour ago, Artboy99 said:

stick to the raw book, especially if $180 for 1 cgc 9.8 kills your budget for 2-3 months

If $180 for 1 cgc 9.8 kills your budget for 2-3 months, your ability to collect books for investment is very limited.

[Jesse-Lee]

6 minutes ago, F For Fake said:

9.8's on coppers/moderns may be pricey specifically because they are 9.8's, not because the book is itself hard to find. Below that grade, they are largely common. If you love this book, you can get these routinely in $1-$5 bins in decent shape, and on ebay for under $20. I've personally bought and sold several of these in the $1-$10 range over the last few years that I dug out of the $1 bins. Maybe not 9.8, but certainly in NM condition. It's certainly not a hard book to find. Unless it's a book that you feel you just have to have in 9.8, I'd recommend getting a nice raw NM copy, put it in a mylar and half/full back, and enjoy it. Not worth paying that much for a book that is common in decent grade unless you just absolutely have to have it.

Thanks all for helping my perspective on this - I kid you not, literally this morning I found this exact issue - Wolverine 17 - in really nice condition at a nearby LCS's "back issue sale" celebrating Free Comic Book Day. Paid $2.50 for it. Also, because I never learn and I'm too impulsive, I already bought the graded 9.2 before I made this post... But the thing is, I really do like the issue, and I like how it looks slabbed.

I guess maybe my use of the word "investment" wasn't right - for books like this for me, I don't plan to sell, so I feel like if I find one in a decent enough grade and it's already slabbed, maybe it's worth it? I guess I meant "investment" in the sense that I wouldn't necessarily lose money if I bought a slabbed book for less than FMV. I'm probably just trying to justify it to myself.

One thing I've learned for certain is I could never own a comic book store, because I'd never want to sell anything!

[Jesse-Lee]

3 minutes ago, jjonahjameson11 said:

If $180 for 1 cgc 9.8 kills your budget for 2-3 months, your ability to collect books for investment is very limited.

Yeah - if I had my way about it I'd be spending a lot more - and in the past month as I started collecting again, I've definitely spent a lot more. But I also like buying a variety of books, and I do have to be cognizant of other expenses. My wife is very patient but she knows I have a lot of "hobbies," and if I start dropping a grand a month on books it's going to be an issue unfortunately.

[THE_BEYONDER]

25 minutes ago, jjonahjameson11 said:

If $180 for 1 cgc 9.8 kills your budget for 2-3 months, your ability to collect books for investment is very limited.

I disagree.  Bin fodder $1 books turn to gold everyday.   There are many here that could turn a tidy profit with $60/month.

[jcjames]

31 minutes ago, Jesse-Lee said:

Thanks all for helping my perspective on this - I kid you not, literally this morning I found this exact issue - Wolverine 17 - in really nice condition at a nearby LCS's "back issue sale" celebrating Free Comic Book Day. Paid $2.50 for it. Also, because I never learn and I'm too impulsive, I already bought the graded 9.2 before I made this post... But the thing is, I really do like the issue, and I like how it looks slabbed.

I guess maybe my use of the word "investment" wasn't right - for books like this for me, I don't plan to sell, so I feel like if I find one in a decent enough grade and it's already slabbed, maybe it's worth it? I guess I meant "investment" in the sense that I wouldn't necessarily lose money if I bought a slabbed book for less than FMV. I'm probably just trying to justify it to myself.

One thing I've learned for certain is I could never own a comic book store, because I'd never want to sell anything!

If you buy a book for $45 with the intent on not selling it later, you ARE down $45... but you got the book you wanted. It was a sale, not an investment.

I think you just want appropriate value for the money you're spending and to be confident you're not getting ripped off.

So, you now have two books that you like, both in decent quality, for $47.50 total.

Sounds like you did good, and maybe learned something of value as well!

 

Edited August 29, 2020 by jcjames

[Buzzetta]

4 hours ago, THE_BEYONDER said:

Copper/modern is a different animal, but for bronze I find perfectly centered 9.4 copies with white pages are the best value.   Not all 9.4s are created equal, so you still have to examine the actual book.  To me, a 9.4 with perfect QP & White pages is superior to a miswrapped 9.6 ow/w.

Very true.

A perfect example is ASM129... I was lucky to find my keeper copy shortly before the book popped again.   I had a hard time finding one that was centered without that annoying white stripe on the cover due to a miswrap.  My copy is the centered copy without the white stripe and the other is an image I pulled from eBay with the white stripe. 

 

[Jesse-Lee]

9 minutes ago, jcjames said:

If you buy a book for $45 with the intent on not selling it later, you ARE down $45... but you got the book you wanted. It was a sale, not an investment.

I think you just want appropriate value for the money you're spending and to be confident you're not getting ripped off.

So, you now have two books that you like, both in decent quality, for $47.50 total.

Sounds like you did good, and maybe learned something of value as well!

 

Thanks, yeah, I guess that's exactly how I should be looking at it. I felt like I made a couple of mistakes when I got back into collecting, especially as it pertains to slabbed books. But so far the slabs are books I want to keep, not flip, so maybe it shouldn't matter as much.

[F For Fake]

21 minutes ago, THE_BEYONDER said:

I disagree.  Bin fodder $1 books turn to gold everyday.   There are many here that could turn a tidy profit with $60/month.

It’s true. When I was still selling, my bread and butter was 50 cent and $1 books that I could sell for $10-$20. Small potatoes not worth the time for a lot of sellers, but it was a fun and relatively lucrative hobby for me. 

[THE_BEYONDER]

4 minutes ago, Buzzetta said:

Very true.

A perfect example is ASM129... I was lucky to find my keeper copy shortly before the book popped again.   I had a hard time finding one that was centered without that annoying white stripe on the cover due to a miswrap.  My copy is the centered copy without the white stripe and the other is an image I pulled from eBay with the white stripe. 

 

That’s a beautiful looking 9.4, and exactly what I’m talking about.  Boggles my mind that someone would pay a significant premium for a 9.6 that looks like carp.

 

[jjonahjameson11]

44 minutes ago, THE_BEYONDER said:

I disagree.  Bin fodder $1 books turn to gold everyday.   There are many here that could turn a tidy profit with $60/month.

Turn to gold every day?  After how many years? Decades?  Sure there are examples of $1bin books becoming hot and going for big bucks, but they are few and far between and it still takes time for them to become valuable 

[THE_BEYONDER]

43 minutes ago, jjonahjameson11 said:

Turn to gold every day?  After how many years? Decades?  Sure there are examples of $1bin books becoming hot and going for big bucks, but they are few and far between and it still takes time for them to become valuable 

Are we living in the same marketplace?  Few and far between?  Almost every first appearance has exploded from the dollar bins.   All it takes now is the slightest rumour.  The “heating up” threads in copper & modern have a multitude of examples.   
In bronze, look at Eternals 1.  It didn’t take time to heat up. It wasn’t long ago I couldn’t give them away.

 

Don't get me started on She-Hulk books

 

Never before has such easy money been available in comic land.

Edited August 29, 2020 by THE_BEYONDER