Did Stan Lee use a ghost writer?? 2 2

[Larryw7]

On 8/21/2021 at 8:38 AM, jimjum12 said:

Stan absolutely did NOT have a ghost writer. In fact, in addition to his comic book achievements, HE was a Ghost writer for others. Do you remember F Scott Fitzgerald ? ... that was Stan. Ernest Hemingway ? ... that was also all Stan. Most people don't know that. GOD BLESS...

-jimbo(a friend of jesus)

 

... JD Salinger ? ... I hate to be the one, but that was Stan as well. 

Stan is also the true author of The Secret Gospel of Mark.

[JohnH19]

On 8/21/2021 at 5:24 AM, Larryw7 said:

Stan is starting to sound a little bit like his close friend Bob Kane.

Depends on what you choose to believe. Kane’s story is documented fact. Stan’s doubters rely on opinion and hearsay more than anything else.

[Larryw7]

On 8/22/2021 at 5:25 PM, JohnH19 said:

Depends on what you choose to believe. Kane’s story is documented fact. Stan’s doubters rely on opinion and hearsay more than anything else.

No, there's a ton of documentation about Stan. Several books, Alter Ego, Rob Evanier, etc. All from people who knew him and interviews with Stan himself. But I realize I shouldn't have compared Stan to Kane. Stan, for all his flaws, was a nice guy. Kane, from people who knew him and through his own words, doesn't sound like a very nice guy. 

[JohnH19]

So you’re saying that Stan didn’t write all of the stories that carry his name?

[Aman619]

Define “write”….  And you can come to your own conclusions..  it may not line up with how Stan viewed writing comics given his other duties and management style.

[JohnH19]

“Write” as it pertains to the Marvel Method. Kane had no involvement at all with most of the stories his name appeared on. 

[jimjum12]

On 8/22/2021 at 5:32 PM, Larryw7 said:

No, there's a ton of documentation about Stan. Several books, Alter Ego, Rob Evanier, etc. All from people who knew him and interviews with Stan himself. But I realize I shouldn't have compared Stan to Kane. Stan, for all his flaws, was a nice guy. Kane, from people who knew him and through his own words, doesn't sound like a very nice guy. 

I heard that too.... and to me, all kidding aside, it matters. Someone can't be my hero if they're a *spoon*. GOD BLESS...

-jimbo(a friend of jesus)

[Larryw7]

On 8/22/2021 at 5:36 PM, JohnH19 said:

So you’re saying that Stan didn’t write all of the stories that carry his name?

Not always, no. 

[shadroch]

I just started reading Kirby and Woods Sky Masters strips. So far it is intersting but I have not read too many strips to compare it to.

[bluechip]

On 8/22/2021 at 2:32 PM, Larryw7 said:

No, there's a ton of documentation about Stan. Several books, Alter Ego, Rob Evanier, etc. All from people who knew him and interviews with Stan himself. But I realize I shouldn't have compared Stan to Kane. Stan, for all his flaws, was a nice guy. Kane, from people who knew him and through his own words, doesn't sound like a very nice guy. 

The Marvel comics from Stan's heyday in the 60s up until today were, by Stan's account and nearly everyone else's, a group effort, and more akin to the way serialized TV shows and studio franchises are created today. 

But while most people who hear that Stan didn't do 100% without thinking less of him, there are some who just can't think of it as anything but 100% one way (Stan did it all!) or the other (Stan did nothing!).  And with the rarest exceptions that is not how it is now or how it's ever been within professional creative rooms in any medium.

Like the guys here who take every quote about Stan delegating something to the extreme that Kirby did "100%" of everything, not only slamming Stan Lee but Heck, Buscema, Colan, Ayers, Thomas and every single other person from Marvel except Ditko (on two titles, with Kirby getting credit for 100% on all the others).  Basically, dissing not Stan Lee but every other artist or writer except the two who also dissed Stan Lee to a large enough extent.

[bob jr]

Like I've said ... I'm new to the hobby & as far as Stan Lee using a ghostwriter I don't have a clue ?                                 I know Stan Lee is a BIG name  & I thought he is / was looked upon as a " GOD" in the comic world & taking shots at him was strictly forbidden , a no - no 

[KCOComics]

On 8/24/2021 at 5:46 AM, bob jr said:

Like I've said ... I'm new to the hobby & as far as Stan Lee using a ghostwriter I don't have a clue ?                                 I know Stan Lee is a BIG name  & I thought he is / was looked upon as a " GOD" in the comic world & taking shots at him was strictly forbidden , a no - no 

He didn't use a ghost writer.

And Stan built something incredible and in my opinion deserves his god like status. 

As far as creating the characters we all know and love it wasn't one man show like many believe.  It was a collaboration between him and Jack Kirby (and Steve Ditko was basically doing Spiderman by himself).  As marvel took off and Stan got busier running the business and doing college tours and so on, he didn't do nearly as much as plotting. The responsibilities for the stories continued to fall more and more on the artists and eventually Roy Thomas was hired. 

The debate about Stan is strictly about how much of these creations he's actually responsible for. Some argue that he had virtually nothing to do with them. Some argue he created everything and Jack just drew. And the truth is somewhere in the middle.

Jack and him collaborated on everything in the early days, yet Stan was a beloved icon credited with creating hundreds of characters all by himself.  Only hardcore fans (back then) appreciated the tireless work of Jack Kirby.  That didn't sit well with the comic book community. And as the lawsuits and books peeled back the curtain of how things really worked at marvel, many felt Stan betrayed them and more importantly the artists. And that's why you have so much venom toward Stan in the comic book community. 

My opinion is, the argument is to narrowly focused.  Stan was much more to marvel than a writer and editor.  So I agree, Jack and Steve deserve much more credit. As do Romita, Sinnot, and Ayers to name a few. These guys put a tremendous amount of work in without a tremendous amount of pay (relative to what their contributions would become). But these characters don't become icons without Stan being the face of marvel. 

 

 

[Jaylam]

In my opinion, it took them all, but Stan (at the urging of his wife), threw caution to the wind and all the tired old formulas. He turned his love and disillusionment with the medium into something new. Once he saw it was beginning to resonate, he embraced it all the more and kept building on it, becoming the salesman and face of the company, putting it all together and keeping it all together. He showed he was as human and flawed as the stories he was promoting, apologizing for gaffs or making some implausible excuse with a wink and a nod. He broke the 4th wall and made the effort to connect with the fans himself in the letters page, Stan's Soapbox and even in the stories themselves. Remember the no-prize? It showed he was willing to go outside the box and the medium to connect with the fans; revolutionary at the time. I remember getting a personally signed to me Hulk image from Stan back in 1968-69 (long since lost unfortunately). As a 9 year old, I remember thinking "wow", the guy that writes these stories I read in these comic books, took the time to personally write and give something to me. I mean, who did that? These are the things that made Stan stand out and made him so loved.

[Albert Thurgood]

If he had used a ghost writer, the first place to look for where he would use one would be in the Westerns.

[Jaylam]

On 8/24/2021 at 7:12 PM, Albert Thurgood said:

If he had used a ghost writer, the first place to look for where he would use one would be in the Westerns.

You mean like this:

[shadroch]

On 8/22/2021 at 5:37 PM, bluechip said:

The Marvel comics from Stan's heyday in the 60s up until today were, by Stan's account and nearly everyone else's, a group effort, and more akin to the way serialized TV shows and studio franchises are created today. 

But while most people who hear that Stan didn't do 100% without thinking less of him, there are some who just can't think of it as anything but 100% one way (Stan did it all!) or the other (Stan did nothing!).  And with the rarest exceptions that is not how it is now or how it's ever been within professional creative rooms in any medium.

Like the guys here who take every quote about Stan delegating something to the extreme that Kirby did "100%" of everything, not only slamming Stan Lee but Heck, Buscema, Colan, Ayers, Thomas and every single other person from Marvel except Ditko (on two titles, with Kirby getting credit for 100% on all the others).  Basically, dissing not Stan Lee but every other artist or writer except the two who also dissed Stan Lee to a large enough extent.

I dont think I'ver ever heard anyone say Stan did 100% 0f it.   Even in the Firestone books that bear only his name, he gives credit to the artists.

Say what you want about the "Marvel Method" but it produced some great books and both Kirby and Ditko produced their best stuff under it. How is it no other "editor" was able to do that?

[Larryw7]

On 8/25/2021 at 11:18 PM, shadroch said:

I dont think I'ver ever heard anyone say Stan did 100% 0f it.   Even in the Firestone books that bear only his name, he gives credit to the artists.

Say what you want about the "Marvel Method" but it produced some great books and both Kirby and Ditko produced their best stuff under it. How is it no other "editor" was able to do that?

Yeah, but on the flip side, what creative endeavors from Stan can compare to his work with Jack and Steve? Unless we consider something like Stripperella to be a work of genius.

[piper]

On 8/26/2021 at 2:56 AM, Larryw7 said:

Yeah, but on the flip side, what creative endeavors from Stan can compare to his work with Jack and Steve? Unless we consider something like Stripperella to be a work of genius.

No different than Kirby or Ditko’s works without Stan. Without the pair, it just didn’t work.  Kind of like McCartney/Lennon.

[Larryw7]

On 8/26/2021 at 5:00 AM, piper said:

No different than Kirby or Ditko’s works without Stan. Without the pair, it just didn’t work.  Kind of like McCartney/Lennon.

I think That New Gods and the Eternals are incredible creative works, despite the leaden dialogue. Ditko's Mr. A is also good work, until he really overdid the Ayn Rand philosophy as the strip went on. But still more creative than most of Stan's post Kirby/Ditko work. 

[Garystar]

I always think of the analogy between Marvel and the fire triangle. The fire triangle = heat, oxygen and fuel; take anyone away and you don’t have fire. Marvel triangle = Lee, Kirby, Ditko; take anyone away and you don’t have Marvel.