Marvel Comic Rack from 1960's 3 3

[buddy2]

@Fan Boy Thanks.   Good Luck in filling your comic rack list.   Hopefully this covid mess will be under control soon!

[comicwiz]

On 10/11/2020 at 7:17 AM, Get Marwood & I said:

First appearance May 1970, so the rack can't be from the 1960's:

First off, thanks kindly to @buddy2for allowing me the opportunity to add this comic rack to my collection. For me, the enjoyment of owning these merchandisers is found also in being able to research them during this early period of comic distribution.

After doing some research on the fabricator (which has already been mentioned), as well as the news stand this was shipped to, I was able to narrow a range that would point this rack to being made prior to this issue of Hulk 127 being released.

The first clue is the logo itself, as we start to see a transition from sometime in 1963, which shows a different "M" used below the corner box of ASM #33, and the same M as the header used on this rack on ASM #34. And that logo remained beneath the corner box art up until 1971, when it was last seen on Hulk #144 and ASM #101 respectively.

And Cadillac's name would appear to have caused some issues for them, perhaps by a certain car brand, because there are several trademarks filed for them in the early 1970's. That said, what is known is the Cadillac name was no longer in use by the mid-1970's as it was rolled into another company. The other clue is the news stand distribution center this was shipped to was no longer operating out of that location by 1969.

My hunch is that the Trimpe corner box art was ready much earlier than it's use on the IH series.

Similarly to what happened with the ASM series, where Ditko's last Spidey was issue #38 (1966), it is believed that Romita's rendition for the corner box art was already drawn, and they kept using the Ditko corner box art even after John Romita took over, and Romita's rendition only first appeared a year after he was working on the title in issue #48 (1967).

It also isn't uncommon for the original artwork during this period to have been prepared 6 months prior to it's actual published date, so even if we went by May 1970 as the end point for when IH #127 was published, the art used on the corner box could well have existed from the year prior.

So when you examine all these factors together, the Marvel logo (which was really a transition period word mark), the paper distributor and the art used on the header, I believe the earliest range this rack was fabricated was 1967, and the latest would be 1969.

Edited July 4, 2021 by comicwiz

[Get Marwood & I]

23 minutes ago, comicwiz said:

The first clue is the logo itself, as we start to see a transition from sometime in 1963, which shows a different "M" used below the corner box of ASM #33, and the same M as the header used on this rack on ASM #34. And that logo remained beneath the corner box art up until 1971, when it was last seen on Hulk #144 and ASM #101 respectively.

Good detective work, Wiz, I'd forgotten about this thread.

I'm not following your comment above though regarding the "M" in relation to the logo - can you elaborate?

                         ASM #33                                                   ASM #34                                                      ASM #101

[comicwiz]

4 hours ago, Get Marwood & I said:

Good detective work, Wiz, I'd forgotten about this thread.

I'm not following your comment above though regarding the "M" in relation to the logo - can you elaborate?

                         ASM #33                                                   ASM #34                                                      ASM #101

Sure, and thanks for providing those images juxtaposed together.

So if you look at the MARVEL used on ASM #33, the "M" looks like an upside "W", where the legs flare outward. Starting on ASM #34, you see the same M as the wordmark used on the header of the rack. However, what's also interesting is that the lettering/font conforms more to the MARVEL COMICS used on ASM #33, paricularly the E used on the header, so this is why I refer to it as a "transition" period logo, and why I think it's important contextually to establish a timeline point, because these are the front facing products for Marvel from this period, and it appears that whoever was preparing the artwork to send off to the fabricator to create this rack, was seemingly referencing these as their boiler template.

Edited July 4, 2021 by comicwiz

[JazzMan]

6 minutes ago, Get Marwood & I said:

Good detective work, Wiz, I'd forgotten about this thread.

I'm not following your comment above though regarding the "M" in relation to the logo - can you elaborate?

                         ASM #33                                                   ASM #34                                                      ASM #101

The "M" in Marvel from ASM 33 is angled while in issue 34 it is completely vertical on either side, is my guess.

[Von Cichlid]

33 minutes ago, comicwiz said:

 

Similarly to what happened with the ASM series, where Ditko's last Spidey was issue #38 (1966), it is believed that Romita's rendition for the corner box art was already drawn, and they kept using the Ditko corner box art even after John Romita took over, and Romita's rendition only first appeared a year after he was working on the title in issue #48 (1967).

 

That art you see in the corner of ASM 48 was drawn by Ditko,  and came from this issue, which was 1965 I believe.

[Get Marwood & I]

13 minutes ago, comicwiz said:

Sure, and thanks for providing those images juxtaposed together.

So if you look at the MARVEL used on ASM #33, the "M" looks like an upside "W", where the legs flare outward. Starting on ASM #34, you see the same M as the wordmark used on the header of the rack. However, what's also interesting is that the E used on the header conforms more to the one used on ASM #33, so this is why I refer to it as a "transition" period logo, and why I think it's important contextually to establish a timeline point, because these are the front facing products for Marvel from this period, and it appears that whoever was preparing the artwork to send off to the fabricator to create this rack, was seemingly referencing these as their boiler template.

Got ya. I see what you mean, but I think all three are different, separate font types myself. And I suspect this one may have been hand drawn: 

It's a damn fine thing either way.

[comicwiz]

13 minutes ago, Von Cichlid said:

That art you see in the corner of ASM 48 was drawn by Ditko,  and came from this issue, which was 1965 I believe.

Yes, I wondered that myself, but wasn't sure if I could shift the timeline that far back. That said, I'm glad you posted this because I do believe it's based on this without question, however if you look at the line art closely, it appears JR redrew it.

After I found out the paper distribution center relocated, I didn't really bother to delve deeper to see if I could narrow that range down even more, however I had also hoped to find a point of reference for the Hulk corner box art as well, like in a house ad or somewhere.

Edited July 4, 2021 by comicwiz

[Get Marwood & I]

1 minute ago, comicwiz said:

Yes, I wondered that myself, but wasn't sure if I could shift the timeline that far back. That said, I'm glad you posted this because I do believe it's based on this without question, however if you look at the line art closely, it appears JR redrew it.

I agree, they're clearly different:

 

[Get Marwood & I]

A bit clearer:

[lizards2]

On 10/13/2020 at 12:46 PM, thunsicker said:

On 10/13/2020 at 12:23 PM, comicginger1789 said:

On 10/11/2020 at 9:43 PM, speedcake said:

I have only three 

I only have 2.....am I even a real collector!?

I only have 3, but only 3 of them fit my collecting focus.

I have 15, and they perfectly fit my collecting lack of focus.

[Von Cichlid]

1 hour ago, comicwiz said:

Yes, I wondered that myself, but wasn't sure if I could shift the timeline that far back. That said, I'm glad you posted this because I do believe it's based on this without question, however if you look at the line art closely, it appears JR redrew it.

After I found out the paper distribution center relocated, I didn't really bother to delve deeper to see if I could narrow that range down even more, however I had also hoped to find a point of reference for the Hulk corner box art as well, like in a house ad or somewhere.

 

I was hesitant to post that because you seemed way too knowledgeable not to be aware of that ASM annual 2.  I've never considered that the image was redrawn, but in the newer version Spiderman appears thicker and more muscular, which is indicative of Romita as opposed to Ditko.

I was also wondering about the origin of that Hulk image.  That one's going to be a lot tougher to get to the bottom of because the image is just too small for any artistic tendency to jump out at me.  Plus, I just never paid near as much attention to early Hulk as I did ASM.  

[Get Marwood & I]

37 minutes ago, Von Cichlid said:

I was also wondering about the origin of that Hulk image.  That one's going to be a lot tougher to get to the bottom of because the image is just too small for any artistic tendency to jump out at me.  Plus, I just never paid near as much attention to early Hulk as I did ASM.  

Severin or Trimpe?

No joy finding a source...

[mr_highgrade]

8 minutes ago, Get Marwood & I said:

Severin or Trimpe?

No joy finding a source...

Severin. 

[Get Marwood & I]

2 minutes ago, mr_highgrade said:

Severin. 

Yes. Spidey was an instantly recognisable pose from an identifiable source. For all we know, this Hulk was never used in anything else. You could spend ages looking and not find it for that reason. Nothing online that I could find, and usually someone has posted the connection, if it exists. Their are whole web pages devoted to Marvel corner box art. I'm sure there would be something online by now if it was from the pages of a previous book.

[Randall Dowling]

2 hours ago, Get Marwood & I said:

A bit clearer:

The second image looks like it was traced from the first, not redrawn.  And then inked rather heavily.  

[comicwiz]

29 minutes ago, Randall Dowling said:

The second image looks like it was traced from the first, not redrawn.  And then inked rather heavily.  

The first image was altered. Likely by the inker, but possibly from a staffer tasked to do fixing of this sort. If you look closely, someone thought Spidey was way too lanky, as they added an extra outline beginning from the neck all the way down to his feet. So when I refer to redrawn, the person who inked the second moved those lines, and by the time it transformed to the second image, they changed the shape of the head and shading. This might have been a result of adding ink weight to all the webbing so it would get picked-up when reduced in scale to fit in that corner box area - outlines, and eyelets, and for all we know, it could have been an inked over stat of this art, but I still consider it redrawn for the above reasons.

Edited July 4, 2021 by comicwiz

[Von Cichlid]

5 hours ago, Get Marwood & I said:

Severin or Trimpe?

No joy finding a source...

Well, we know it's not Kirby because Hulk has one too many toes.

[ADAMANTIUM]

5 minutes ago, Von Cichlid said:

Well, we know it's not Kirby because Hulk has one too many toes.

[Get Marwood & I]

7 hours ago, Von Cichlid said:

Well, we know it's not Kirby because Hulk has one too many toes.

Yes, but is that krackle under them...?