Is CGC Going to Universal Labels for Restored Books?

[october]

If a book is going to be dinged because of restoration, let it be because buyers understand the extent and quality of the restoration -- not because the label is a different color.

 

It doesn't matter if it is a different color or not, it is the restoration that is killing the resale value of the book, not the color!

 

I wouldn't be too sure of that.

 

Well, some people don't chase labels. And good lord! Your avatar is scary!

 

It's Rivka the Rooster Headed Chicken!

[FFB]

seems like it would be better to pick an altogether different scale for resto, saving us from sellers advertising a book as a "9," when the 9 is referring to the resto number, not the structural grade.

 

like A through F, or something, with F being a total hack job. add pluses and minuses and you get a nice wide range

 

I agree, Marc. I'd like them to use Matt Nelson's proposed scale, personally. I think it's a much more precise scale and won't cause confusion with the 0.5-10 grading scale.

[uclapeterg]

What does Matt's scale look like?

 

BTW, I like the letter grades for restoration too, but that just might lead to more confusion.

[Rip]

I agree, Marc. I'd like them to use Matt Nelson's proposed scale, personally. I think it's a much more precise scale and won't cause confusion with the 0.5-10 grading scale.

 

[joe_collector]

It doesn't matter if it is a different color or not, it is the restoration that is killing the resale value of the book, not the color!

 

I have to laugh when people say bizarre stuff like "it's the color of the label that drives the price low, not the restoration!".

 

Do they really think buyer are that STUPID, and if so, why would you buy expensive books in a market populated by absolute ?

 

Current Situation: "Duh, me can't buy dat book, it's got da crazee Purple stuff on top!"

 

New World: "Duh, me knows dat book has gettum four edges trimmeded, tar seal, colored touched, and a 80% huv da cover rebuilt... butt it has Blue stuff on it - get out ma checkbook Orville, I ham byeing!!"

 

[joe_collector]

like A through F, or something, with F being a total hack job. add pluses and minuses and you get a nice wide range

 

Even that's pretty weird, since we're asking CGC to "grade the aesthetics" of restoration. Is a small tear seal better than a color-touched spine crease or a small stain that was cleaned? Where do trims enter in? How about combinations? Pro vs. Amateur?

 

A "numerical/alpha" Restoration Grade is both simplistic and bizarre. Just tell us what resto is on the book, and let the customer decide. It's like CGC thinks potential insufficiently_thoughtful_person customers are walking into a comic store and saying "gimme 6 pounds of CGC comics please!".

[FFB]

What does Matt's scale look like?

 

BTW, I like the letter grades for restoration too, but that just might lead to more confusion.

 

It's in the Overstreet Grading Guide. It's the best scale I've seen from anyone.

[FFB]

It doesn't matter if it is a different color or not, it is the restoration that is killing the resale value of the book, not the color!

 

I have to laugh when people say bizarre stuff like "it's the color of the label that drives the price low, not the restoration!".

 

Do they really think buyer are that STUPID, and if so, why would you buy expensive books in a market populated by absolute ?

 

Current Situation: "Duh, me can't buy dat book, it's got da crazee Purple stuff on top!"

 

New World: "Duh, me knows dat book has gettum four edges trimmeded, tar seal, colored touched, and a 80% huv da cover rebuilt... butt it has Blue stuff on it - get out ma checkbook Orville, I ham byeing!!"

 

 

OK Vince, but that isn't what I've said now, is it?

[Flaming_Telepath]

I think the title of the thread should be 'How Is CGC Going to Universal Label for Restored Books When They Can't Even Spot It?'.

 

Any chance this bunch are ever going to address the real issues that confront them and the current market, rather than get involved in another way of squeezing the last drop of cash out of their 'customers'?

 

Stand by for turn-around times to extend out into the future days of teleportation and warp-drives whilst everybody with a PLOD sends it in for regrading/reholdering...and parts with enough money to set the CGC shareholders up with mansions in Monoco.

 

It is this sort of [embarrassing lack of self control] up sh!te that has me on the verge of loathing and detesting everything that this company does and stands for.

 

WAKE UP PEOPLE AND CLOSE YOUR WALLETS!!!

 

[THE_BEYONDER]

It's like CGC thinks potential insufficiently_thoughtful_person customers are walking into a comic store and saying "gimme 6 pounds of CGC comics please!".

 

[Aces]

It's like CGC thinks potential insufficiently_thoughtful_person customers are walking into a comic store and saying "gimme 6 pounds of CGC comics please!".

 

 

Do you want fries with that?

[topofthetotem]

the culture of greed is killing this hobby on the top end anyways, The BSD and the want to make more and more money!

they created CGC to serve their desire for higher profits does anybody think CGC was created so some BSD could give their customers better service and better quality items, no it was created to give the BSD better profit margins like it did with coins and cards. only the elite in the hobby are privy to any decision making policy not the customers of the elite there must be a million bucks of buying power in the board members lets use it for the collectors not the dealers like a comic buyers payola

[FFB]

What does Matt's scale look like?

 

BTW, I like the letter grades for restoration too, but that just might lead to more confusion.

 

Here is Matt's scale from the OGG. I think this would provide buyers with a lot more information than what is currently provided, especially for buyers who can't look at the book in person:

 

 

 

 

[FFB]

You think someone with a bronze age or low-dollar silver age book with amateur color touch is going to spend the money to get the book regraded under the new system?

 

I applaud the decision to move away from the purple label and toward a more detailed method of disclosing information. More information is better. Just because you personally have no interest in restored books doesn't mean that CGC has to change its policies in the order that you dictate.

 

I think the title of the thread should be 'How Is CGC Going to Universal Label for Restored Books When They Can't Even Spot It?'.

 

Any chance this bunch are ever going to address the real issues that confront them and the current market, rather than get involved in another way of squeezing the last drop of cash out of their 'customers'?

 

Stand by for turn-around times to extend out into the future days of teleportation and warp-drives whilst everybody with a PLOD sends it in for regrading/reholdering...and parts with enough money to set the CGC shareholders up with mansions in Monoco.

 

It is this sort of [embarrassing lack of self control] up sh!te that has me on the verge of loathing and detesting everything that this company does and stands for.

 

WAKE UP PEOPLE AND CLOSE YOUR WALLETS!!!

 

[LordRahl]

There have been a couple of threads in which the COLLECTORS on this board have expressed very strongly their desire for CGC to do away with Purple labels. No matter what CGC does they can't please everyone, you want PLOD's, other collectors don't. I wouldn't be surprised if the idea to get rid of PLOD's originated here, and if I remember correctly was very well accepted. Of course the same old crowd will now go to great lengths to bash CGC for once again ruining the hobby. Honestly, if the resto is clearly marked on the label and there is a separate resto grade so that even from small scans you'll be able to tell that the book has some work on it, why does the color of the label matter? Keep in mind that the purple label did not stop scammers from trying to pull one over on people. I've seen plenty of small scans on ebay where the color of the scan was played with enough that the purple no longer looked purple and was purposely made to look blue.

[Flaming_Telepath]

You think someone with a bronze age or low-dollar silver age book with amateur color touch is going to spend the money to get the book regraded under the new system?

 

I can't seem to find that particular suggestion in what I wrote?

 

I'll look again...

 

 

 

 

Nope. Can't see it.

 

So, where DID that come from, FFB?

[Flaming_Telepath]

Just because you personally have no interest in restored books doesn't mean that CGC has to change its policies in the order that you dictate.

 

And how do YOU know whether or not I have any interest in restored books?

 

And CGC couldn't simply retain the Purple label, but insert more information? Y'know, to avoid tempting people into regrading and reslabbing what has already been through the system, BUT still give greater disclosure?

 

And why no comment on where CGC's attention should currently be focused? You seem to comment on every other thing I DIDN'T say, so why no smart-arse comment on that?

[gpanalysis]

The best way, so that it can be easily seen on the label (even on small scans) and clearly identified is to add it to the end of the grade, in the same size, so you would have:

 

9.4-2, or 9.8-4, etc

[FFB]

You think someone with a bronze age or low-dollar silver age book with amateur color touch is going to spend the money to get the book regraded under the new system?

 

I can't seem to find that particular suggestion in what I wrote?

 

I'll look again...

 

 

 

 

Nope. Can't see it.

 

So, where DID that come from, FFB?

 

From this:

 

"Stand by for turn-around times to extend out into the future days of teleportation and warp-drives whilst everybody with a PLOD sends it in for regrading/reholdering...and parts with enough money to set the CGC shareholders up with mansions in Monoco."

 

"Everybody with a PLOD" would include the thousands of books that are relatively low dollar books with amateur work or books with moderate or extensive restoration -- neither of which would make much financial sense to recertify or reholder, since the value wouldn't be significantly affected by a blue label with a cruddy restoration score. Think about it -- how many relatively cheap books with crappy amateur work or extensive professional work do you see for every significant book that has slight professional work? Maybe 10 to 1?

 

You may have missed it, but I actually ran the numbers in a post a while ago to show how much profit CGC would realize if every PLOD were submitted for reholdering with a new label. Care to guess how much it was? Assuming an $11 reholdering fee and a 25% margin, we're talking a little over $50K in pre-tax profit. Not exactly a huge windfall. And even if CGC charges a re-grading fee instead of a reholder fee, the obvious fact that not EVERY book with a PLOD will get resubmitted means that the profit CGC stands to make from this change is not much more than that.

[FFB]

Just because you personally have no interest in restored books doesn't mean that CGC has to change its policies in the order that you dictate.

 

And how do YOU know whether or not I have any interest in restored books?

 

And CGC couldn't simply retain the Purple label, but insert more information? Y'know, to avoid tempting people into regrading and reslabbing what has already been through the system, BUT still give greater disclosure?

 

And why no comment on where CGC's attention should currently be focused? You seem to comment on every other thing I DIDN'T say, so why no smart-arse comment on that?

 

Sorry, Nick, that was presumptuous of me. I should have asked first.

 

How many restored books do you own as part of your permanent collection?

 

Also, what other part of your comments do you want me to address?

 

CGC needs to speed up turnaround times? Agreed. But they won't. TATs have been behind for too long for me to think they're ever going to bring Economy subs back in line with what's posted on the website -- and Economy is getting worse, not better. My response to this when I was still submitting books was to stop submitting books.

 

CGC can't detect restoration? A ridiculous comment. They may not be perfect, but they're better at it than anyone else in the hobby. If you're expecting perfection, you're bound to be disappointed by CGC or by anyone else whom you hold up to such a standard.

 

Where should CGC's attention be currently focused? Why does it need to be focused on only one thing? If they focused only on the one thing you wanted them to, there would be a couple thousand other people with priorities different from yours who would pizz and moan that THEIR issue was being ignored.

 

And in closing, I'd like to point out that apparently nothing has been done to further CGC's "blue label for restored books" program since we first heard about it in San Diego two months ago. So since CGC isn't exactly throwing all of their attention in that direction, what is it exactly that you have to complain about?