D2 Posted January 8, 2021 Share Posted January 8, 2021 I'm sure this is going to stir up some buzz, as I understand there is a definitive line between old collectors, that focus on Golden and Silver Age books, and Modern Age readers/collectors.... let's leave the speculators out of this, if at all possible... Because this is a topic I'm curious about, which is based on the essential collecting, not the speculation market. I say this ahead of time, because I know, from a 'collecting', 'financial' perspective, these books are going up in value... BUT I don't like old grails. I don't want them. I'm 40 and clearly, doing the math, did not grow up reading books from the 70s and earlier. I got into reading books in the 90s... and yes, books that I read back then hold a special place in my heart. I appreciate and understand nostalgia very well. I guess my point is, specifically to, Hulk 181 let's say... I've read that issue, it's awful. The art is awful, the story is awful, the book is awful. I have absolutely zero interest in having it in my collection. Bragging rights, as it were, doesn't entice me as much as it does the price tag it demands just to own it. To say I own the '1st appearance of...' does not hold value to me anymore. That is my speculator talking. From a reader and true collector point of view... I struggle with old books, because reading them now is very difficult. This holds true for almost all books I grew up with as well. I own zero books from my old reading days, the 90s. I've reread them. They are awful. Now this isn't true for all old books. I believe that DKR is still a masterpiece for instance. I still thoroughly enjoy reading Days of Future Past. I'm not saying all old books are garbage, but I have a hard time appreciating anything now that doesn't hold the test of time. Just to be clear, I also think most new books are garbage too lol. Just leveling the playing field. Anyway, am I really the only one that feels this way? It seems so... but I don't know... just curious really. Talapas1, eddly and NWOslave 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeffro. Posted January 8, 2021 Share Posted January 8, 2021 4 minutes ago, D2 said: I got into reading books in the 90s... I'm so very sorry. D2 and thewritestuff 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D2 Posted January 8, 2021 Author Share Posted January 8, 2021 6 minutes ago, Jeffro. said: I'm so very sorry. Thank you. And I was hooked on Spawn... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post F For Fake Posted January 8, 2021 Popular Post Share Posted January 8, 2021 People like what they like. You should collect what you like. I was a copper kid (but not Copper Age Kid...that's an important distinction!) so my nostalgia is largely tied to the 80's and 90's. But I love Silver and Bronze keys because those were the books that I aspired to own as a kid. Those were "old", and "old" was cool. Of course, let's not consider the fact that there's a lot more time between the Copper Age and present day than there was between the Silver and Copper age. Ugh. I'm old. Today, they're that much older, and I love them not because they're great reads (they're usually not), but because of the historical value, the cover art, etc. I don't need to read Avengers 4 to love the book. Heck, Hulk 1-6 are TERRIBLE reads (sorry, fans!), but I LOVE those books, because who wouldn't love those ancient, weird Marvels with the awesome covers, there in the early days of the Marvel Universe? I've never owned a Hulk 1, but I've owned multiples of 2-6, and even though I hope i never have to read them again, I still LOVE those books. Silver Age DC's are legendarily corny, but I still love 'em. One reading will suffice for a lifetime, but owning the books and enjoying their place in comics history, that never goes away, for me. The truth is, if you're looking for comic writing that stands up to the test of time...there isn't much to be found. Most Gold, Silver, Bronze, and yeah, even copper, books are fairly cheesy by current standards. And then 90's, ugh. Somehow even worse! But there are always exceptions. As a reader, I find most Golden Age hero books to be a real chore to get through. However, I do legitimately love Jack Cole's Plastic Man, Eisner's Spirit, and a few others. And most of the horror books are still a joy to read. And EC? Man, EC's are still dynamite! Of course, today, it doesn't matter much what I think about the content. Grails are generally far beyond my grasp, and hell, bronze and copper keys are fast approaching that threshold as well. SkOw, Namtak, D2 and 7 others 10 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post seanfingh Posted January 8, 2021 Popular Post Share Posted January 8, 2021 22 minutes ago, D2 said: I'm sure this is going to stir up some buzz, as I understand there is a definitive line between old collectors, that focus on Golden and Silver Age books, and Modern Age readers/collectors.... let's leave the speculators out of this, if at all possible... Because this is a topic I'm curious about, which is based on the essential collecting, not the speculation market. I say this ahead of time, because I know, from a 'collecting', 'financial' perspective, these books are going up in value... BUT I don't like old grails. I don't want them. I'm 40 and clearly, doing the math, did not grow up reading books from the 70s and earlier. I got into reading books in the 90s... and yes, books that I read back then hold a special place in my heart. I appreciate and understand nostalgia very well. I guess my point is, specifically to, Hulk 181 let's say... I've read that issue, it's awful. The art is awful, the story is awful, the book is awful. I have absolutely zero interest in having it in my collection. Bragging rights, as it were, doesn't entice me as much as it does the price tag it demands just to own it. To say I own the '1st appearance of...' does not hold value to me anymore. That is my speculator talking. From a reader and true collector point of view... I struggle with old books, because reading them now is very difficult. This holds true for almost all books I grew up with as well. I own zero books from my old reading days, the 90s. I've reread them. They are awful. Now this isn't true for all old books. I believe that DKR is still a masterpiece for instance. I still thoroughly enjoy reading Days of Future Past. I'm not saying all old books are garbage, but I have a hard time appreciating anything now that doesn't hold the test of time. Just to be clear, I also think most new books are garbage too lol. Just leveling the playing field. Anyway, am I really the only one that feels this way? It seems so... but I don't know... just curious really. This is how I always felt about Golden Age. I had no connection to it, other than Jules Pfeiffer's book. Plus by the time I was actively collecting in the mid-80s they were way out of my league price wise. I don't think you should feel sad or bad about not wanting older books. It should be about whatever makes you happy. You will take some flack about collecting "drek" but it's all good. Everyone's books were drek at one time or another. B2D327, frozentundraguy, Jasonmorris1000000 and 5 others 8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theCapraAegagrus Posted January 8, 2021 Share Posted January 8, 2021 Good. More for everyone else. B2D327 and Deadpoolica 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post theCapraAegagrus Posted January 8, 2021 Popular Post Share Posted January 8, 2021 Doesn't like old books. Doesn't like the 90's books that they grew up on. New books are "garbage". Anyone else confused? kav, Motor City Rob, speedcake and 3 others 5 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post speedcake Posted January 8, 2021 Popular Post Share Posted January 8, 2021 Collect what you like and don't worry about it. Don't worry about what other people think is "cool" or "must have" or key. They certainly don't worry about you or what you collect. And if they do, then they aren't worth worrying about in turn. See? Easy! Skylath, oakman29, Funnybooks and 3 others 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nonquixote Posted January 8, 2021 Share Posted January 8, 2021 (edited) I don't read comics anymore. I started collecting in the 1970's, and loved the stories. Now though, panel by panel storytelling doesn't do anything for me. I still appreciate the cover art, the nostalgia factor, and the value of my books, but I'm no longer a comic reader, and prefer novels. Edited January 8, 2021 by nonquixote Randall Ries, JJ-4 and D2 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Funnybooks Posted January 8, 2021 Share Posted January 8, 2021 COmic book guy...Is this you posting this?? 41 minutes ago, D2 said: I'm sure this is going to stir up some buzz, as I understand there is a definitive line between old collectors, that focus on Golden and Silver Age books, and Modern Age readers/collectors.... let's leave the speculators out of this, if at all possible... Because this is a topic I'm curious about, which is based on the essential collecting, not the speculation market. I say this ahead of time, because I know, from a 'collecting', 'financial' perspective, these books are going up in value... BUT I don't like old grails. I don't want them. I'm 40 and clearly, doing the math, did not grow up reading books from the 70s and earlier. I got into reading books in the 90s... and yes, books that I read back then hold a special place in my heart. I appreciate and understand nostalgia very well. I guess my point is, specifically to, Hulk 181 let's say... I've read that issue, it's awful. The art is awful, the story is awful, the book is awful. I have absolutely zero interest in having it in my collection. Bragging rights, as it were, doesn't entice me as much as it does the price tag it demands just to own it. To say I own the '1st appearance of...' does not hold value to me anymore. That is my speculator talking. From a reader and true collector point of view... I struggle with old books, because reading them now is very difficult. This holds true for almost all books I grew up with as well. I own zero books from my old reading days, the 90s. I've reread them. They are awful. Now this isn't true for all old books. I believe that DKR is still a masterpiece for instance. I still thoroughly enjoy reading Days of Future Past. I'm not saying all old books are garbage, but I have a hard time appreciating anything now that doesn't hold the test of time. Just to be clear, I also think most new books are garbage too lol. Just leveling the playing field. Anyway, am I really the only one that feels this way? It seems so... but I don't know... just curious really. speedcake 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Funnybooks Posted January 8, 2021 Share Posted January 8, 2021 36 minutes ago, D2 said: Thank you. And I was hooked on Spawn... This is where you may have made a wrong turn...Spawn... D2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ride the Tiger Posted January 8, 2021 Share Posted January 8, 2021 There is no universal definition to Grail. Collect what you want. Call the books you want grails. D2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
engelhard Posted January 8, 2021 Share Posted January 8, 2021 20 minutes ago, Angel of Death said: Doesn't like old books. Doesn't like the 90's books that they grew up on. New books are "garbage". Anyone else confused? yes theCapraAegagrus and an99 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Ryan. Posted January 8, 2021 Popular Post Share Posted January 8, 2021 51 minutes ago, D2 said: I'm sure this is going to stir up some buzz, as I understand there is a definitive line between old collectors, that focus on Golden and Silver Age books, and Modern Age readers/collectors.... let's leave the speculators out of this, if at all possible... Because this is a topic I'm curious about, which is based on the essential collecting, not the speculation market. I say this ahead of time, because I know, from a 'collecting', 'financial' perspective, these books are going up in value... BUT I don't like old grails. I don't want them. I'm 40 and clearly, doing the math, did not grow up reading books from the 70s and earlier. I got into reading books in the 90s... and yes, books that I read back then hold a special place in my heart. I appreciate and understand nostalgia very well. I guess my point is, specifically to, Hulk 181 let's say... I've read that issue, it's awful. The art is awful, the story is awful, the book is awful. I have absolutely zero interest in having it in my collection. Bragging rights, as it were, doesn't entice me as much as it does the price tag it demands just to own it. To say I own the '1st appearance of...' does not hold value to me anymore. That is my speculator talking. From a reader and true collector point of view... I struggle with old books, because reading them now is very difficult. This holds true for almost all books I grew up with as well. I own zero books from my old reading days, the 90s. I've reread them. They are awful. Now this isn't true for all old books. I believe that DKR is still a masterpiece for instance. I still thoroughly enjoy reading Days of Future Past. I'm not saying all old books are garbage, but I have a hard time appreciating anything now that doesn't hold the test of time. Just to be clear, I also think most new books are garbage too lol. Just leveling the playing field. Anyway, am I really the only one that feels this way? It seems so... but I don't know... just curious really. This is actually WHY I enjoy collecting Golden Age books. They were published decades before I was born and thus have the ability to transport me to a past that I only understand anecdotally. I suffer under no delusions that most, or even any, of the GA books I chase have any real literary merit, and the art is often terrible, at least on the interior. However, looking at a LB Cole sci-fi cover gives me a sense of nostalgia for a time I did not exist in. On the flip side, I also collect TMNT stuff, mostly because it connects me more directly to my own childhood when there was nothing more important in the world than what was happening on that afternoon's episode of the cartoon series. I still remember seeing the trailer for the TMNT movie for the first time and I have never been more excited about anything before or since than I was in that very moment. Turtle, BuscemasAvengers, KCOComics and 7 others 10 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeffro. Posted January 8, 2021 Share Posted January 8, 2021 (edited) 3 hours ago, D2 said: Thank you. And I was hooked on Spawn... It's okay. I liked McFarlane back then too. I have many not so good memories about 90s books. There's an awful lot of drekky drek from Marvel and DC in that decade. It's like when that group of guys bolted and formed Image, Marvel and DC replaced them with even worse artists. Of course you can say that every decade has its crappy art and that's very true but somehow it feels like the 90s took crappy to a new level. And that's without even talking about the gimmick cover nonsense Edited January 8, 2021 by Jeffro. Talapas1, JJ-4, D2 and 1 other 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theCapraAegagrus Posted January 8, 2021 Share Posted January 8, 2021 1 minute ago, Jeffro. said: It's okay. I liked McFarlane back then too. I have many not so good memories about 90s books. There's an awful of drekky drek from Marvel and DC in that decade. It's like when that group of guys bolted and formed Image, Marvel and DC replaced them with even worse artists. Of course you can say that every decade has its crappy art and that's very true but somehow it feels like the 90s took crappy to a new level. And that's without even talking about the gimmick cover nonsense Quote What do you mean? - Rob Liefeld JJ-4 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
engelhard Posted January 8, 2021 Share Posted January 8, 2021 (edited) 21 minutes ago, Jeffro. said: It's okay. I liked McFarlane back then too. I have many not so good memories about 90s books. There's an awful of drekky drek from Marvel and DC in that decade. It's like when that group of guys bolted and formed Image, Marvel and DC replaced them with even worse artists. Of course you can say that every decade has its crappy art and that's very true but somehow it feels like the 90s took crappy to a new level. And that's without even talking about the gimmick cover nonsense the 90's was not all bad Edited January 8, 2021 by engelhard oops SkOw 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
comicginger1789 Posted January 8, 2021 Share Posted January 8, 2021 (edited) 1 hour ago, D2 said: I'm sure this is going to stir up some buzz, as I understand there is a definitive line between old collectors, that focus on Golden and Silver Age books, and Modern Age readers/collectors.... let's leave the speculators out of this, if at all possible... Because this is a topic I'm curious about, which is based on the essential collecting, not the speculation market. I say this ahead of time, because I know, from a 'collecting', 'financial' perspective, these books are going up in value... BUT I don't like old grails. I don't want them. I'm 40 and clearly, doing the math, did not grow up reading books from the 70s and earlier. I got into reading books in the 90s... and yes, books that I read back then hold a special place in my heart. I appreciate and understand nostalgia very well. I guess my point is, specifically to, Hulk 181 let's say... I've read that issue, it's awful. The art is awful, the story is awful, the book is awful. I have absolutely zero interest in having it in my collection. Bragging rights, as it were, doesn't entice me as much as it does the price tag it demands just to own it. To say I own the '1st appearance of...' does not hold value to me anymore. That is my speculator talking. From a reader and true collector point of view... I struggle with old books, because reading them now is very difficult. This holds true for almost all books I grew up with as well. I own zero books from my old reading days, the 90s. I've reread them. They are awful. Now this isn't true for all old books. I believe that DKR is still a masterpiece for instance. I still thoroughly enjoy reading Days of Future Past. I'm not saying all old books are garbage, but I have a hard time appreciating anything now that doesn't hold the test of time. Just to be clear, I also think most new books are garbage too lol. Just leveling the playing field. Anyway, am I really the only one that feels this way? It seems so... but I don't know... just curious really. You are not alone! There are a lot of "key" books that, if I do acquire them when buying collections or lots or whatever, I am only happy to sell them to those who really want them. Take Hulk #180 for example, of which I have owned 2 in the past couple years. I have zero interest in Hulk from that era (and a lot of Hulk in general) and rather than have that "key", I sold it and put the money towards books I do like...with either characters I like, or stories or art or both. Now, there are a handful of books in my collection that I have that really, I wonder why I keep them. They are "keys" but really are uninteresting to me. Batman #635, Avengers Annual #10, Hulk #340 to name a few. I have these in high grade and could sell and put towards others but I have not done so. I think reason being these kinda of fell into my lap and were acquired so cheaply (couple bucks each). The same goes with a healthy chunk of X-Men issues from the Byrne/Claremont days. Call shame on me, but I am not a huge X-Men guy and really, I should probably sell these however the covers on many are very nice, even if I don't love the characters. For me, the only way a Hulk #180 or #181 or some other big key that I am not actively hunting (like New Mutanst #98 or Batman Adventures #12) makes its way into my PC is if I have crossed off several other more important books. Until then, having these would be fine but having single digit ASM issues or ASM #50 or Golden Age Cole stuff or insert a large range of this I prefer is much more important to me and my collecting. Edited January 8, 2021 by comicginger1789 D2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iggykoopa Posted January 8, 2021 Share Posted January 8, 2021 1 hour ago, Angel of Death said: Doesn't like old books. Doesn't like the 90's books that they grew up on. New books are "garbage". Anyone else confused? Include me in the "confused" group, please. theCapraAegagrus and Comics4All 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mackenzie999 Posted January 8, 2021 Share Posted January 8, 2021 1 hour ago, Angel of Death said: Doesn't like old books. Doesn't like the 90's books that they grew up on. New books are "garbage". Anyone else confused? If I were his editor I would cut it down to "doesn't like books." Comics4All, theCapraAegagrus and kccoig14 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...