My experience with fractional ownership of comics: JIM #83 / $215,000 3 3

[theCapraAegagrus]

Just now, valiantman said:

Should I spend some time later reviewing your specific contributions in this topic about fractional ownership of comics, or should I cut out the middle man and just open Google, search "random image", and see what pops up?

Whatever makes you feel good.

[ThothAmon]

6 minutes ago, valiantman said:

Correct, I've shown the photo of one row of slabs that I own.  Let's say there are 600 slabs visible and they are worth $50 each.  That's $30,000.  Shall I sell all $30,000 worth to buy a single key issue?  No.  But I would happily put $50 into a $30,000 comic rather than buy a 601st slab for $50.  It's all about what I want to do next.  This isn't an alternative to collecting comics from scratch.  RallyRd might be the first comic book "investment" for someone, but it's more likely that they'll get suckered into a $50 variant of some comic that they're slightly interested in the character but know nothing about the dismal history of variants over the past 30 years.  Those people might be better off with RallyRd than what they're currently getting.  On the other hand, as my X-Men #1 example shows... if you own a low grade X-Men #1 and would like to "upgrade" for less than $1,000... there's something between the "sorry" and the "just raise $10,000" that we've been given as the only two options up to now.

Funny enough, since I’m the one caring about total return more I’m the investor and you’re the collector. 

Edited March 31, 2021 by ThothAmon

[blazingbob]

12 minutes ago, ThothAmon said:

Play nice. It’s an interesting topic. As far as investments go, I am certain with the amount of knowledge Valiantman has about comics he would outperform his returns with rally rd by buying/selling comics he holds himself.  Other investment classes that he lacks such expertise in, if any exist, rally road might make more sense.  

Whether you believe in the value of the investment is really not the issue.  I for one am not disputing the underlying asset(s).  What my concern would be is the "clearinghouse" who I don't know from a hole in the wall.  When markets are hot and liquidity is fluid investments look and run smoothly.  When things go bad and there is a run for the exits liquidity will be the equalizer in this partial share experience.  

Edited March 31, 2021 by blazingbob

[ThothAmon]

3 minutes ago, blazingbob said:

Whether you believe in the value of the investment is really not the issue.

I agree with all your points but I’m not disputing the value of the underlying asset, except to the extent that the decision maker who controls the asset will have a considerably lower basis for his share price than the retail owner. Basically ValiantMan is subsidizing someone else’s ownership of a key comic by purchasing shares at a valuation that is invariably above fmv at the time of release. 

[KCOComics]

Well this has escalated since I left for my 2pm meeting.  

I do think @valiantman raises points that shouldn't be belittled. 

And I can understand his hostility because he's kind of been on an island here.  

Fractional ownership isn't for me and I don't view it as collecting. That said, when I was in college ordering books through a mail order service sounded really stupid to me when Barnes and Nobel was right down the street. 

Not to say Rally Rd will turn into Amazon. The point is to not discount new innovations in a field just because it looks really different.  Maybe the generation behind us will put greater importance on fractional ownership of physical assets. 

After all, kids in their teens and 20s will grow up watching Xmen movies,  but will likely never be able to afford an X1 in any condition with where prices are going. 

Again,  I stand by my earlier comments, Rally Rd doesn't interest me.  But I would caution anyone against dismissing innovation and market disruptors. 

It's worth paying attention to. 

[valiantman]

Just now, ThothAmon said:

I agree with all your points but I’m not disputing the value of the underlying asset, except to the extent that the decision maker who controls the asset will have a considerably lower basis for his share price than the retail owner. Basically ValiantMan is subsidizing someone else’s ownership of a key comic by purchasing shares at a valuation that is invariably above fmv at the time of release. 

Correct. 

There is no option for me (or anyone) to purchase $1,000 worth of a $150,000 CGC 8.0 Amazing Fantasy #15 where I can pay exactly 1/150th of the retail price.  It is more likely that I would only receive 1/160th of the ownership for the cost of 1/150th of the full asset.

Until there is an option to get closer to 1/150th of the retail price with 1/150th of the investment, there is a premium that must be paid... or the game must not be played at all.  There are now 22 pages against playing the game at all, however, if the asset is a $200,000 asset in the future, 1/160th would be worth $1,250 at that time, when it is $1,000 today.  Additionally, the asset itself is a high-grade Amazing Fantasy #15 which will never be part of my collection.

[valiantman]

28 minutes ago, Angel of Death said:

29 minutes ago, valiantman said:

Should I spend some time later reviewing your specific contributions in this topic about fractional ownership of comics, or should I cut out the middle man and just open Google, search "random image", and see what pops up?

Whatever makes you feel good.

You didn't particularly care for what made me feel good although I was having loads of fun. 

 

(That's what she said.) 

Edited March 31, 2021 by valiantman

[valiantman]

33 minutes ago, blazingbob said:

Whether you believe in the value of the investment is really not the issue.  I for one am not disputing the underlying asset(s).  What my concern would be is the "clearinghouse" who I don't know from a hole in the wall.  When markets are hot and liquidity is fluid investments look and run smoothly.  When things go bad and there is a run for the exits liquidity will be the equalizer in this partial share experience.  

Where are the trustworthy blazingbob's of the partial ownership world?  Inquiring minds want to know. 

[valiantman]

RallyRd

Withotis

Collectable.com

dibbs.io

Mythic Markets

Masterworks.io

Arthena

 

Do you guys think that winning this particular argument against "valiantman" will make any difference?  You might as well use fishnets as a Covid facemask.  The world keeps turning no matter what gets said in this topic.

[Lazyboy]

4 hours ago, blazingbob said:

You really need to put the pom pom's down.  

Not to mention the crack pipe.

[Lazyboy]

On 2/26/2021 at 12:28 PM, valiantman said:

I would love to have some fraction of Action Comics #1 at 1990 prices plus a premium of 200% - if it was 1990 prices - and I'd still own it 30 years later.

Sorry, but no, you were forced to sell it 30 months later. Maybe you converted your profits into physical currency that you put into a jar and you can pull it out from time to time to remember how you once pretended to own a piece of an Action Comics 1.

[Lazyboy]

50 minutes ago, valiantman said:

RallyRd

Withotis

Collectable.com

dibbs.io

Mythic Markets

Masterworks.io

Arthena

 

Do you guys think that winning this particular argument against "valiantman" will make any difference?  You might as well use fishnets as a Covid facemask.  The world keeps turning no matter what gets said in this topic.

Yes, people will continue to do stupid things while others do even stupider things because that's humanity. Can't argue with reality (unless you're a noob in the card forum).

[NewWorldOrder]

4 hours ago, KCOComics said:

Well this has escalated since I left for my 2pm meeting.  

I do think @valiantman raises points that shouldn't be belittled. 

And I can understand his hostility because he's kind of been on an island here.  

Fractional ownership isn't for me and I don't view it as collecting. That said, when I was in college ordering books through a mail order service sounded really stupid to me when Barnes and Nobel was right down the street. 

Not to say Rally Rd will turn into Amazon. The point is to not discount new innovations in a field just because it looks really different.  Maybe the generation behind us will put greater importance on fractional ownership of physical assets. 

After all, kids in their teens and 20s will grow up watching Xmen movies,  but will likely never be able to afford an X1 in any condition with where prices are going. 

Again,  I stand by my earlier comments, Rally Rd doesn't interest me.  But I would caution anyone against dismissing innovation and market disruptors. 

It's worth paying attention to. 

I assumed everyone involved knows it nots really collecting.  It's just the possibility to make, break even, or lose money.  It's more about the clearing house or holding corp.  Will they have your best interests at heart or are they Wolf of Wall Street.  For me if clearing house is legit and cares then this is a brilliant idea, but for now its too new to formulate a long-term strategy just yet.  However, investing some throw away money might be fun and see what happens. 

[THE_BEYONDER]

5 hours ago, valiantman said:

No one else can see it either, but they are too polite to point out you do this kind of newb Google cut-and-paste thing all the time. 

P.S. PCs don't determine what's on the internet and provided to the browser.  The servers do.  And this server isn't loading your stolen image.

I can see it on my phone

[Gman65NJ]

As the OP who’s been away for a while and just caught up, I’ve got to say this is pretty much exactly what I envisioned (down to the gifs) when I posted so thanks for not disappointing and thanks to @valiantmanfor carrying the ball.

As someone who is both collector and investor (sometimes both concurrently but mostly separately) I can tell you it’s not an either or proposition.

There’s also an element of liquidity...I look at the RallyRd aspect as akin to illiquid private equity and a way to invest for the long term in an area that actually interests me (and like my PE investments it’s money I can afford to lose so if it happens to go to zero that’s ok and like PE relative to my overall portfolio, my RallyRd holdings are worth less than 10% of my comic collection.)

And the part I don’t get is collector purists should actually welcome the investing side as it will help drive up both general interest and valuations.

Carry on.

[HotKey]

3 hours ago, Gman65NJ said:

And the part I don’t get is collector purists should actually welcome the investing side as it will help drive up both general interest and valuations.

Old money doesn't want new money around if new money isn't going to bow down and recognize old money as the "true collectors" and purists.

And new money dgaf.

[Beige]

12 hours ago, cgcmod11 said:

Funny is fine, disrespectful not so much. I just hid one post, I hope not to have to hide more.

Carryon;)

Better still - why not move the bloody thread to the dealers section.

It's pretty much blatant trolling by Rally Rd now.

It's got beyond tedious.

[MetalPSI]

I currently rent a house.

If I can't buy a house, I should live under a bridge while I save up

[Lazyboy]

18 hours ago, Gman65NJ said:

And the part I don’t get is collector purists should actually welcome the investing side as it will help drive up both general interest and valuations.

Really? It should be welcomed? I know why investors want prices to increase, because that's all they care about. But why would collectors want prices to go up? How does that help them add to their collections?

Interest in a hobby is good, at least to a point. Without interest, information and items will be harder to find. But not all interest is equal. Not even close.

[Mercury Man]

On 3/31/2021 at 3:28 PM, KCOComics said:

Fractional ownership isn't for me and I don't view it as collecting.

Bingo!