Another Overstreet question 1 1

[William-James88]

10 hours ago, GlennSimpson said:

What I was kinda hoping for was things like "if it's an Overstreet 9.2, you can probably assume it's a CGC 9.4" or some such.

That's not the case. If it's a 9.2 overstreet then it could also be a 9.2 CGC.

10 hours ago, GlennSimpson said:

And what if I just want to accurately grade books that I have no intention of submitting, because while they aren't worth much (individually, although collectively they can be worth a lot), I'd still like for my collection to be accurately graded?

If you aren't submitting books, then the CGC grade doesn't matter since it only applies to slabbed books. 

Just focus on the overstreet grading guide for those. 

[thehumantorch]

On 1/25/2021 at 8:30 PM, GlennSimpson said:

Well, yes and no.  Because if I'm using the Overstreet guide for grading (to keep it conservative), then for a given book that is $3 or $4 in 9.2, it's only $1 in 9.0.  Now multiply that times like 30,000 books (where the other 14,000 or so are probably worth more than cover) and that's a big difference in value.  

You're making this too hard.  Most buyers won't care if a book is worth $1 in 9.0 or $3 in 9.2 and few will try to grade them to Overstreet standards or care about Overstreet standards.  At $1 they'll sell faster and you'll sell more of them than if you price them at $3.  If you offer them to a dealer he'll offer you $30 or $50 a long box depending on the popularity of the characters - spider-man sells better than unloved Image titles - and he might bump up the offer a bit if the books generally look like 9.6 or better, but he won't bother grading to Overstreet standards.  15,000 unremarkable books graded 9.2 by CGC standards or Overstreet standards, are essentially worth the same as 15,000 books graded 9.0 by CGC standards or Overstreet standards and there isn't a difference in value.

Now if a book is $5 in 9.2 and $100 in CGC 9.8 smart buyers will care and you should also.  That will require you to grade by CGC standards to pick out books worth submitting for grading and will require you to understand which books will benefit from pressing and cleaning and how much they will benefit.

[William-James88]

I'm wondering, is Glenn grading to sell the books himself individually or to see how much his collection is worth in total to sell to a dealer? 

[The Lions Den]

On 1/25/2021 at 8:49 PM, GlennSimpson said:

Yes, there is a ton of horribly disorganized information on grading on the internet.  I know all of these things you guys are telling me, the problem is the information is not organized or consistent.  One source says finger-dents don't matter unless it is shooting for 9.8.  Another guy in a video cracks a 9.4 and can't find anything wrong with it except for 3-4 finger dents.  Books that are already (and still) slabbed, you can't tell anything about the surface of the book, dents and whatnot.

Just so you know, finger dents do matter, especially in the higher grades...  

[Lightning55]

On 1/28/2021 at 9:50 AM, William-James88 said:

I'm wondering, is Glenn grading to sell the books himself individually or to see how much his collection is worth in total to sell to a dealer? 

Why do I get the feeling that Greg is attempting to painstakingly evaluate 30,000 comics that are worth roughly cover price in Overstreet?  If it's showing cover price in Overstreet, a common issue, it is worth about 50 cents actual value.  And straining over grading standards as he looks at each one?

No, I'm sorry, that $2.95 cover price comic has one too many spine ticks, so you won't be able to send it in.  Dang, after spending $25 grading, $12 pressing, and $25 shipping both ways, it could have been worth $40!

Any comic can be worth a decent amount if it is CGC graded at 9.8, if that's what he is angling for.  And even at 9.8, some are barely worth the cost of grading.  Worth LESS than the grading costs at 9.6 or lower.

You can pick up a comic and tell within a few seconds if it has a chance.  If you think it does, you're still only a part of the way there.  You have to get CGC to agree, go through the process.  You can add pressing into your calculations, to remove some minor things (if possible) that are keeping the comic out of a 9.8 grade.

You can submit for prescreen 9.8, and if you're way off, or even a little off, that's $5 per reject, plus shipping both ways.  Ouch.

Wading through the shallow end of the pool of comic values is rarely worth getting wet.  Check out stuff that has some raw value to begin with, enhanced by grading.

[The Lions Den]

23 minutes ago, Lightning55 said:

Why do I get the feeling that Greg is attempting to painstakingly evaluate 30,000 comics that are worth roughly cover price in Overstreet?  If it's showing cover price in Overstreet, a common issue, it is worth about 50 cents actual value.  And straining over grading standards as he looks at each one?

No, I'm sorry, that $2.95 cover price comic has one too many spine ticks, so you won't be able to send it in.  Dang, after spending $25 grading, $12 pressing, and $25 shipping both ways, it could have been worth $40!

Any comic can be worth a decent amount if it is CGC graded at 9.8, if that's what he is angling for.  And even at 9.8, some are barely worth the cost of grading.  Worth LESS than the grading costs at 9.6 or lower.

You can pick up a comic and tell within a few seconds if it has a chance.  If you think it does, you're still only a part of the way there.  You have to get CGC to agree, go through the process.  You can add pressing into your calculations, to remove some minor things (if possible) that are keeping the comic out of a 9.8 grade.

You can submit for prescreen 9.8, and if you're way off, or even a little off, that's $5 per reject, plus shipping both ways.  Ouch.

Wading through the shallow end of the pool of comic values is rarely worth getting wet.  Check out stuff that has some raw value to begin with, enhanced by grading.

Excellent advice.  

[thehumantorch]

3 hours ago, The Lions Den said:

Just so you know, finger dents do matter, especially in the higher grades...  

Everything matters

[thehumantorch]

2 hours ago, Lightning55 said:

Why do I get the feeling that Greg is attempting to painstakingly evaluate 30,000 comics that are worth roughly cover price in Overstreet?  If it's showing cover price in Overstreet, a common issue, it is worth about 50 cents actual value.  And straining over grading standards as he looks at each one?

No, I'm sorry, that $2.95 cover price comic has one too many spine ticks, so you won't be able to send it in.  Dang, after spending $25 grading, $12 pressing, and $25 shipping both ways, it could have been worth $40!

Any comic can be worth a decent amount if it is CGC graded at 9.8, if that's what he is angling for.  And even at 9.8, some are barely worth the cost of grading.  Worth LESS than the grading costs at 9.6 or lower.

You can pick up a comic and tell within a few seconds if it has a chance.  If you think it does, you're still only a part of the way there.  You have to get CGC to agree, go through the process.  You can add pressing into your calculations, to remove some minor things (if possible) that are keeping the comic out of a 9.8 grade.

You can submit for prescreen 9.8, and if you're way off, or even a little off, that's $5 per reject, plus shipping both ways.  Ouch.

Wading through the shallow end of the pool of comic values is rarely worth getting wet.  Check out stuff that has some raw value to begin with, enhanced by grading.

It appears Greg has about 30k comics and he's looking at $1 a book or $4 a book and doing the math

30,000 X $1 = $30,000.  30,000 X $4 = $120,000

On paper it looks like there's a potential value of $120k, excluding books worth sending to get graded, and a $90k variance in value depending on grade.  In reality it will take forever to sell the bulk of this and some will never sell and if he sells to a dealer he'll get a bulk per long box offer.

[GlennSimpson]

Hey guys!  Sorry, I was away from home for work for several days and didn't really have a chance to read and update.

First, it's Glenn, not Greg.   Usually people call me Chris when they get it wrong, but all good.

OK, I am not planning on submitting (well, maybe eventually a few, but not really the main thing).  I am also not really planning on selling any time soon.  Here is what I am trying to do:

I have my comics insured with www.collectinsure.com.   The way they work is, you tell them the value of your collection, they tell you how much it will cost, and you write them a check every year.  No lists, no appraisals.  

I have inquired with them how they handle it if I make a claim.  They basically would not tell me what their valuation criteria is.  They have their methods for determining what the value of my comics (based on the list of issues and grades I would provide at that point).  

So when I started, just based on rough "everything from the 80's is in 8.0" sort of grading to get a general idea, it's around $100,000.  But I decided I wanted to grade and value them more precisely.  If the accurately-graded-and-valued collection is likely to only be valued at $45,000, then I have wasted money insuring it at $100,000.   If the same is valued at $150,000, then I don't want to not get that $50,000 in that situation.  

So I picked Overstreet for values, since that's a more long-time industry standard that is likely to be used, particularly with raw books.  So then, it's just a matter of grading accurately.  Which is most important for telling 9.0 from 9.2, because that's where the bulk of the Overstreet values make a difference.  Which brings us back to the original issue, where the Overstreet criteria is vague but further information found online is likely to be CGC-reverse-engineering.

Aside from the insurance, I would just like to know what it's worth.  And grading-wise, if something DID happen to me, I would want my wife to be able to show a potential buyer an impressive amount of information.

So that's the whys and wherefores.  I hate to ask questions about grading for purposes other than CGC on a CGC board, but I haven't really found other resources for asking questions.  Hell, I had to start an r/comicbookgrading subreddit myself.

[GlennSimpson]

1 minute ago, 15Years said:

Then just assume they're all 9.0 and make your life easier.

But then if they are 9.2, that's thousands of dollars lost if I am underinsured.

[GlennSimpson]

1 minute ago, 15Years said:

Can you grade well enough to tell the difference between a 9.0 and a 9.2 on hundreds of books? If not, don't be so greedy and call them 9.0.

Well, I probably could if there was reliable information available on the difference and there weren't two different standards floating around.  I posted a book in "spare a grade" and one guy said 9.2 and several others said 9.0, so I guess go with the majority?

It would also be nice to look at some other 9.0, 9.2 examples in "spare a grade" but since they aren't organized, I'd have to pop open every thread to see whether it was even about a book in that range.

I'd also not characterize someone as "greedy" for wanting to get a fair price on insurance if their house burned down.

[GlennSimpson]

I should say that it's not like I am way off, but there is a frequent temptation to go with 9.2 when not sure so I like to stop and review examples, which is where the disorganization and inconsistancy becomes an issue.

[GlennSimpson]

On 1/26/2021 at 6:49 AM, William-James88 said:

That's not the case. If it's a 9.2 overstreet then it could also be a 9.2 CGC.

If you aren't submitting books, then the CGC grade doesn't matter since it only applies to slabbed books. 

Just focus on the overstreet grading guide for those. 

That's an interesting line of thinking.  In terms of online grading training/discussions, there is a trend towards "this is how to grade so that you can try to determine what grade CGC will give", although there is other content simply saying "this is how you grade comics" but still using CGC examples.

[GlennSimpson]

So perhaps the bottom line is:

1. There are some differences between Overstreet and CGC grading standards

2. If you are going to leave books raw and present them for sale or insurance or whatever, you need to use Overstreet's standards.

3. If you are going to have the books slabbed and are seeking to just evaluate them beforehand, you need to use CGC's standards.

[William-James88]

 

7 minutes ago, GlennSimpson said:

So perhaps the bottom line is:

1. There are some differences between Overstreet and CGC grading standards

2. If you are going to leave books raw and present them for sale or insurance or whatever, you need to use Overstreet's standards.

3. If you are going to have the books slabbed and are seeking to just evaluate them beforehand, you need to use CGC's standards.

Yeah, that sounds about right. But I would still use Overstreet for that 3rd point just because you can't lose by grading conservatively and in the end none of us actually know CGC's standards.

[GlennSimpson]

1 minute ago, William-James88 said:

 

Yeah, that sounds about right. But I would still use Overstreet for that 3rd point just because you can't lose by grading conservatively and in the end none of us actually know CGC's standards.

Yeah, which makes it ironic (although also understandable) that all of the deeper information available outside of Overstreet grading guide are actually attempts at interpreting CGC rather than trying to further explain Overstreet's.

[GlennSimpson]

2 minutes ago, 15Years said:

Since Overstreet is only for raw books I'd say that's right.

So perhaps the original question needs to be:

"Does anybody know where there are videos or additional information on how to grade comics according to the Overstreet standard rather than CGC?"  And if no such thing exists, why not?

[GlennSimpson]

5 minutes ago, 15Years said:

https://www.google.com/search?client=ms-android-sprint-us-revc&sxsrf=ALeKk00bQDUjOF80Z89Ov-MV6BkiRGZpsw%3A1612031074606&ei=YqQVYMO-JI_Z5gL5x72IDA&q=overstreet+guide+to+grading+comics+2020&oq=overdtreet+grading+guide&gs_lcp=ChNtb2JpbGUtZ3dzLXdpei1zZXJwEAEYADIECAAQRzIECAAQRzIECAAQRzIECAAQRzIECAAQRzIECAAQRzIECAAQRzIECAAQR1AAWABgjS5oAHABeACAAQCIAQCSAQCYAQDIAQjAAQE&sclient=mobile-gws-wiz-serp

That search only results in links to places to BUY the guide.  I have the guide - I want more information than what is in the guide.  What are "a limited number", "a minor accumulation", etc?

[William-James88]

43 minutes ago, GlennSimpson said:

Yeah, which makes it ironic (although also understandable) that all of the deeper information available outside of Overstreet grading guide are actually attempts at interpreting CGC rather than trying to further explain Overstreet's.

It's all in order to figure out what it would get from CGC when preparing the books to send to them. But if the book is ultimately sold raw then you'll still have to resort to Overstreet. No one's gonna pay the CGC premium, if it exists, on books that aren't in CGC holders.

That  brings another point that only some books are worth more in a CGC case than raw. 

In the end, both standards are similar. The main difference I see is in terms of detached centrefolds/covers and the like. CGC will do some sort of compromise grade if the rest of the book looks good. But in terms of corners, computers breaks, spine wear, soiling, and creases, they are the same.

Edited January 30, 2021 by William-James88

[thehumantorch]

3 hours ago, GlennSimpson said:

First, it's Glenn, not Greg.   Usually people call me Chris when they get it wrong, but all good.

 

Sorry Glenn, for some reason I saw Greg.