Marvel Artists Fix Mistakes of Jack Kirby, Joe Simon for $6.99....... 0

[Bird]

Just now, thehumantorch said:

Do we really want to forget about what happened during WW2?  The Germans were our enemies and truly committed incredible acts of evil and artists visualization of them should never be erased.

you said it better than my "silly"

 

[Unstoppablejayd]

I can tell you I have seen some of the pages inside (thinking about buying one) and from what I have seen the internal pages still have the imagery discussed above.

[thehumantorch]

Just now, Bird said:

you said it better than my "silly"

 

There have been many wars and you always paint the enemy as evil but can we have any doubt that rounding up millions of citizens in your country and killing them as efficiently as possible and harvesting their teeth and valuables is beyond belief and truly evil.  Least we forget.

[Bird]

Just now, thehumantorch said:

There have been many wars and you always paint the enemy as evil but can we have any doubt that rounding up millions of citizens in your country and killing them as efficiently as possible and harvesting their teeth and valuables is beyond belief and truly evil.  Least we forget.

I visited Auschwitz 3 years ago.

Unimaginable. 

You can see all the photos and docs in the world and it doesn't convey the sadness and horror of the place.

The Germans don't print that stuff because they know the power of it and are vigilant. We don't play the game like that here in America. 

I just don't know what to say except it saddens me. Show him for who he is, and yes, the stache and the armband are how this guy is identified to this point in history. People who wear that armband/symbol are the bad guys and that is why Cap is fighting him. It is a symbol for tyranny and oppression and that should never be erased, it should be friggin' highlighted. The exact reason I would destroy the Hansi comic is why this should remain untouched.

[grapeape]

2 hours ago, thehumantorch said:

Do we really want to forget about what happened during WW2?  The Germans were our enemies and truly committed incredible acts of evil and artists visualization of them should never be erased.

When revisiting history portrayed in comics you absolutely must preserve and display the battle flags, propaganda and uniforms that every military actor took forward into battle.

My grandad fought and survived the Battle at Anzio. We must never forget the evil the Nazis inflicted on the world. I asked him about his experience. He said when first going in to service he was not exactly sure what he was doing. But it became clear and real to him that Hitler needed to be stopped.

Don’t “wash” (fix) away the insignia of terror the enemy of the world so proudly waved in our faces. I’ll be damned if grandad fought against an unidentifiable generic enemy. The casualties of that war staggering. The Nazis waged an unprecedented wave of terror against the free world.

Preserve our comic history as it was. Here’s Grandpa Joe American hero may he Rest In Peace.

[pemart1966]

3 hours ago, thehumantorch said:

Do we really want to forget about what happened during WW2?  The Germans were our enemies and truly committed incredible acts of evil and artists visualization of them should never be erased.

This is incorrect - the NAZIS were our enemies.  There were plenty of Germans that did not like the Nazi party but of course saying so was very unwise.

[thehumantorch]

13 minutes ago, pemart1966 said:

This is incorrect - the NAZIS were our enemies.  There were plenty of Germans that did not like the Nazi party but of course saying so was very unwise.

Sure, I'm using Germans as a proxy for Nazis and the leadership of the German war.

[vodou]

11 hours ago, Bird said:

I don't do the slippery slope thing but this seems heavy handed and silly.

I do.

[vodou]

11 hours ago, thehumantorch said:

Least we forget.

Indeed.

This is an all ages Board, so I picked a 'less gross' one to remind.

Being a quarter Pole and a quarter Slav myself...zero tolerance for woke-cancel-cowpuckey.

There are absolute truths, people can debate "who" did what and "why" (that is freedom of speech, even if misguided, ill-intended, or just ignorant), we can and should always have open-minded conversations like that -along with being aware of cuo buono and that the history books are written by the winners- but that result above cannot be justified...or memory-holed. No picture = no conversation = no lessons learned = doomed to repeat.

Not while I'm alive.

[vodou]

8 hours ago, pemart1966 said:

There were plenty of Germans that did not like the Nazi party but of course saying so was very unwise.

Unfortunately...retribution for 'unwise' is wielded just as mightily this century.

Silly. Let's give credit to our sources  

[grapeape]

On 3/15/2021 at 7:40 AM, vodou said:

I see a reason to never buy Marvel again  

Fixed 

[vodou]

5 hours ago, grapeape said:

Fixed 

That's not buying Marvel though, that's buying vintage from a dealer or collector.

Hey Marvel (and Disney) - not fooled by @grapeape - my wallet is closed to you forever  

[comicwiz]

On 3/15/2021 at 8:26 PM, Bird said:

The exact reason I would destroy the Hansi comic is why this should remain untouched.

I just want to make sure I didn't misunderstand you, are you saying the Hansi comic shouldn't be allowed to be sold, but the original Cap 1 should?

[Bird]

42 minutes ago, comicwiz said:

I just want to make sure I didn't misunderstand you, are you saying the Hansi comic shouldn't be allowed to be sold, but the original Cap 1 should?

No. I am saying I would not sell or own the Hansi comic. But yes, I am saying the context of the imagery matters.

[comicwiz]

16 minutes ago, Bird said:

No. I am saying I would not sell or own the Hansi comic. But yes, I am saying the context of the imagery matters.

That's an interesting perspective, not one I can say I understand. The story of Maria Anne Hirschmann is more relevant today than it's ever been. It's message as simple as it might be, is how people became seduced and influenced by Nazism, and the dangers of history repeating itself if we don't recognize it's lies. To witness the global wave of populism, and how it took root in the US the last four years should be just as much a reason for the story and context of the message of Hansi to be known as the imagery of fighting it through punches and violence. If anything, it's worked against us badly to perpetuate this notion that violence is the answer to eradicate it - all it does it embolden it, and make it more aggressive and determined.

Edited March 18, 2021 by comicwiz

[Bird]

4 minutes ago, comicwiz said:

That's an interesting perspective, not one I can say I understand. The story of Maria Anne Hirschmann is more relevant today than it's ever been. It's message as simple as it might be, is how people became seduced and influenced by Nazism, and the dangers of history repeating itself if we don't recognize it's lies. To witness the global wave of populism, and how it took root in the US the last four years should be just as much a reason for the story and context of the message of Hansi to be known as an imagery of fighting it through punches and violence. If anything, it's worked against us badly to perpetuate this notion that violence is the answer to eradicate it - all it does it embolden it, and make it more aggressive and determined.

I understand she comes around in the end but I think the power of the cover imagery overwhelms the message.

I agree her story could be utilized well today. I would change the cover and the title though.

 

Maybe I am being inconsistent, but it happens. Thanks for trying to explain a counter position. 

Edited March 18, 2021 by Bird

[Rick2you2]

On 3/15/2021 at 3:20 PM, shadroch said:

Do people really need the guy to be wearing a swastika to know who he is?

There are people in this country who couldn’t recognize a picture of Lincoln.

[Rick2you2]

21 hours ago, comicwiz said:

That's an interesting perspective, not one I can say I understand. The story of Maria Anne Hirschmann is more relevant today than it's ever been. It's message as simple as it might be, is how people became seduced and influenced by Nazism, and the dangers of history repeating itself if we don't recognize it's lies. To witness the global wave of populism, and how it took root in the US the last four years should be just as much a reason for the story and context of the message of Hansi to be known as the imagery of fighting it through punches and violence. If anything, it's worked against us badly to perpetuate this notion that violence is the answer to eradicate it - all it does it embolden it, and make it more aggressive and determined.

Can’t say I know the book, but history, I do know. Nazism took root in Germany after the treaty ending World War I resulted in its impoverishment through the payment of reparations, loss of territory, and worse, the humiliation of its people. In a sense, Nazism started as an extreme form of populism because the people felt they had no power through the political system to reclaim both their finances and dignity. FDR stopped it from growing in this country with the New Deal (ever hear of Father Coughlin?). Radicalism and extremism are the products of any political system in which the masses do not think they can get a fair shake. The next step is violence. No, populism did not start here 4 years ago. In various forms and degrees it has always been here (although not named as such until the late 19th century). The violence, on both sides of the political spectrum, is the result of the same sort of helplessness as in post-War Germany, but thankfully, to a much lower degree.