3rd time's the charm? Avengers 4 CGC 7.5: Improper encapsulation, damage by CGC & what to do next? - Updated Conclusion 0

[Phill the Governor]

16 minutes ago, ramithard said:

Bottom line is if you are going to start a company that handles high dollar collectibles, you better have the insurance to pay off if an employee f's it up.

Buy the guy a 7.5 off ebay.  It may not be his "personal" book from pops....but " monetarily" it's the right thing to do....then claim on insurance.

Then they have to original book to do as they please

This is my copy, not some other 7.5 from ebay or elsewhere.

I don't hold grudges, and am happy to have the book in a relatively okay case now. I deal with enough things to not get caught up on this book and let them ruin my enjoyment of it. It is still one hell of a copy and I love the book. It is just unfortunate that it will always be a reminder of CGC's carelessness and greed. They had the opportunity to make this right and and they did the bare minimum. 

[Mephisto]

19 hours ago, thehumantorch said:

 

3) There are problems with the design of CGC's case.

 

SCS was always a thing but I am confused why the slab design was changed so that the damage I am seeing now is so much harsher then 15 years ago? It looks like some changes were made to limit Newton rings but those weren’t really a thing 15 years ago...so what promoted the changes to that even brought about the Newton Rings? Were books getting ripped away at the staple or something? I know at one point that was an issue more so with one of their modern well designs.

[Gaard]

Didn't they change material used for their outer cases a few years ago? Whether this has anything to do with anything, I have no idea.

[thehumantorch]

49 minutes ago, Mephisto said:

SCS was always a thing but I am confused why the slab design was changed so that the damage I am seeing now is so much harsher then 15 years ago? It looks like some changes were made to limit Newton rings but those weren’t really a thing 15 years ago...so what promoted the changes to that even brought about the Newton Rings? Were books getting ripped away at the staple or something? I know at one point that was an issue more so with one of their modern well designs.

I'd be guessing that they made the move to new cases because books look better in them.

[The Lions Den]

1 hour ago, Phill the Governor said:

This is my copy, not some other 7.5 from ebay or elsewhere.

I don't hold grudges, and am happy to have the book in a relatively okay case now. I deal with enough things to not get caught up on this book and let them ruin my enjoyment of it. It is still one hell of a copy and I love the book. It is just unfortunate that it will always be a reminder of CGC's carelessness and greed. They had the opportunity to make this right and and they did the bare minimum. 

I'm glad you're keeping the book...  

[Jaylam]

Holy C**p! Just read through this thread. What a $**t show. 

[thehumantorch]

10 hours ago, ramithard said:

Bottom line is if you are going to start a company that handles high dollar collectibles, you better have the insurance to pay off if an employee f's it up.

Buy the guy a 7.5 off ebay.  It may not be his "personal" book from pops....but " monetarily" it's the right thing to do....then claim on insurance.

Then they have to original book to do as they please

You make a good point.  Why doesn't CGC have insurance to cover any damage that may occur at their facility or during shipping?  

[The Lions Den]

1 minute ago, thehumantorch said:

You make a good point.  Why doesn't CGC have insurance to cover any damage that may occur at their facility or during shipping?  

I don't know about CGC's insurance policy, but where I work at now they allegedly have a one million dollar deductible...

[MetalPSI]

The supplier of the Barex they were using collapsed and they had to move to different materials 

Case design was part of the process to using a different material.

[NewWorldOrder]

On 5/7/2021 at 4:07 PM, Randall Ries said:

If CGC's QC begins to slip, it may just be the motivation another grading company needs to step up and institute steady grading criteria and the absolute elimination of the possibility of damage. 

 

Absolute elimination of the possibility of damage?  

PM me when the other bush league companies actually make that happen, I wont hold my breath.

Let me tell you if this same problem with the Avengers 4 happened at the other companies they may have not even fixed it.  I know a couple people who have had damage from some of the competitors grading services and they didn't get ANY compensation. 

The others (mainly one) have had years to break through in general and they haven't.  So blame them.

[Randall Ries]

3 minutes ago, NewWorldOrder said:

Absolute elimination of the possibility of damage?  

PM me when the other bush league companies actually make that happen, I wont hold my breath.

Let me tell you if this same problem with the Avengers 4 happened at the other companies they may have not even fixed it.  I know a couple people who have had damage from some of the competitors grading services and they didn't get ANY compensation. 

The others (mainly one) have had years to break through in general and they haven't.  So blame them.

I WOULD blame them, Laughy Mug. But we aren't TALKING about them. Try to focus.

We were talking about CGC and how they sent this fellows book back TWICE with even more damage. Sent it in 1st, came back torn. Sent it in again, came back with huge dents along the bottom. Offering me $75 in club membership perks while damaging an $8,000 book? That wouldn't fly with me no matter WHO graded it. I wouldn't have sent it back a second time, personally. I would have asked for another AV4 7.5. Then when they refused and offered me a Mousketeers hat as compensation, would have called my attorney and alerted my insurance company of incoming.

There is no such thing as absolute elimination of the possibility of damages. I'm not naive. But there IS a such thing as accountability. Not paying some gold plated grading company to wreck my book and watch them walk away. My thing is I simply collect my books raw or already graded and UNdamaged. Not going to send raw books in until I am absolutely clear what the process of compensation is when it is determined through common sense my book was damaged in their care and by one of their processors.

[NewWorldOrder]

16 hours ago, Randall Ries said:

I WOULD blame them, Laughy Mug. But we aren't TALKING about them. Try to focus.

We were talking about CGC and how they sent this fellows book back TWICE with even more damage. Sent it in 1st, came back torn. Sent it in again, came back with huge dents along the bottom. Offering me $75 in club membership perks while damaging an $8,000 book? That wouldn't fly with me no matter WHO graded it. I wouldn't have sent it back a second time, personally. I would have asked for another AV4 7.5. Then when they refused and offered me a Mousketeers hat as compensation, would have called my attorney and alerted my insurance company of incoming.

There is no such thing as absolute elimination of the possibility of damages. I'm not naive. But there IS a such thing as accountability. Not paying some gold plated grading company to wreck my book and watch them walk away. My thing is I simply collect my books raw or already graded and UNdamaged. Not going to send raw books in until I am absolutely clear what the process of compensation is when it is determined through common sense my book was damaged in their care and by one of their processors.

You said complete elimination of damage so you were being naive apparently.  Not talking about what they should or should no do.  Saying that is a hyperbole of an expectation for any grading company to 100% eliminate the possibility of a comic being damaged ever in their procession.

While we are in hyperbole mode I wish most submitters to CGC would stop clogging up the pipeline with their trash books like a Spawn #1 that gets a 7.5 or SA/BA non keys in 5.5 with CR-OW pages.

So tell us all how you would have handled this if this was your book?

Protesting outside CGC office?  

Your attorney that works for free?  

What insurance company? Many insurance companies wont cover you once you let someone else (aka CGC) handle your book or after it is delivered safely to a customer. 

Obviously this not a good outcome for either party here, but if CGC's feels they fixed the damage then it's up to the OP if he wants to spend more time & money on legal action to prove he wasn't made whole.

I have had SA books graded where the "Marvel chipping" tears got worse after encapsulation just like the Avengers #4.  I am okay with that risk.  I am not making excuses, but a comic is very tough asset to lay perfectly still in a plastic case and not move around.  I hope one day CGC creates that perfect slab case, but till then this is the best we got. 

Now to most people's point on the x3 times back to CGC.  I get it, its not a good look. That wasn't what I was referring to. 

Edited May 22, 2021 by NewWorldOrder

[THE_BEYONDER]

1 hour ago, NewWorldOrder said:

You said complete elimination of damage so you were being naive apparently.  Not talking about what they should or should no do.  Saying that is a hyperbole of an expectation for any grading company to 100% eliminate the possibility of a comic being damaged ever in their procession.

While we are in hyperbole mode I wish most submitters to CGC would stop clogging up the pipeline with their trash books like a Spawn #1 that gets a 7.5 or SA/BA non keys in 5.5 with CR-OW pages.

So tell us all how you would have handled this if this was your book?

Protesting outside CGC office?  

Your attorney that works for free?  

What insurance company? Many insurance companies wont cover you once you let someone else (aka CGC) handle your book or after it is delivered safely to a customer. 

Obviously this not a good outcome for either party here, but if CGC's feels they fixed the damage then it's up to the OP if he wants to spend more time & money on legal action to prove he wasn't made whole.

I have had SA books graded where the "Marvel chipping" tears got worse after encapsulation just like the Avengers #4.  I am okay with that risk.  I am not making excuses, but a comic is very tough asset to lay perfectly still in a plastic case and not move around.  I hope one day CGC creates that perfect slab case, but till then this is the best we got. 

Now to most people's point on the x3 times back to CGC.  I get it, its not a good look. That wasn't what I was referring to. 

Always the elitist 

I’ll slab my FN/VF Spawn 1, and you’ll like it! 

[Randall Ries]

1 hour ago, NewWorldOrder said:

You said complete elimination of damage so you were being naive apparently.  Not talking about what they should or should no do.  Saying that is a hyperbole of an expectation for any grading company to 100% eliminate the possibility of a comic being damaged ever in their procession.

While we are in hyperbole mode I wish most submitters to CGC would stop clogging up the pipeline with their trash books like a Spawn #1 that gets a 7.5 or SA/BA non keys in 5.5 with CR-OW pages.

So tell us all how you would have handled this if this was your book?

Protesting outside CGC office?  

Your attorney that works for free?  

What insurance company? Many insurance companies wont cover you once you let someone else (aka CGC) handle your book or after it is delivered safely to a customer. 

Obviously this not a good outcome for either party here, but if CGC's feels they fixed the damage then it's up to the OP if he wants to spend more time & money on legal action to prove he wasn't made whole.

I have had SA books graded where the "Marvel chipping" tears got worse after encapsulation just like the Avengers #4.  I am okay with that risk.  I am not making excuses, but a comic is very tough asset to lay perfectly still in a plastic case and not move around.  I hope one day CGC creates that perfect slab case, but till then this is the best we got. 

Now to most people's point on the x3 times back to CGC.  I get it, its not a good look. That wasn't what I was referring to. 

Going to be tedious, huh? Ok.

There was no excuse to the damage caused to this guys book. If it were MY company, I would have found him another 7.5 on ebay or wherever. Given him that and his damaged copy back. Went to the encapsulation department and taken it out of the encapsulators pay. Aw. Don't like that? Quit, then. Employees would understand me when I said "Damage to a customers book is unacceptable. Absolutely forbidden." When they have to pay for damage they caused and understood that, possibility of damage is going to go way down. I would even bet that they gave this guys book back to the same person who handled it in the first place.

So, yes. I admit eliminating the possibility of damage is likely impossible. But these stories aren't uncommon and becoming more commonplace. Hey. You messed up my book. An expensive book. Send it back! We will fix! How do you fix a rip? Ok. I'll send it back. Comes back and is damaged further.

I'm the guy who isn't sending an expensive, unrestored book to any grading company until I know what my options are. I know for sure when I pack it, it isn't moving. No way no how.

Anything can be insured. I could buy temp insurance while it's out of my hands. I buy shipping insurance when I mail stuff. Before pictures would be a must.

Have you ever paid an attorney and won? Good feeling. And yeah. No DUH. ..."it's up to the OP if he wants to spend more time & money on legal action to prove he wasn't made whole." Send an AV4 x2 and get it back with further damage? Good time to do just that. DUUUHHHHH. That's basically what I have been saying I would do. YOU suck it up if you want to. If an attorney felt I had a really good case, sure! I'd try to make an example of a company that offered me a pittance that ultimately benefits them in the long run. Would not be sending them other peoples books like the OP claims he is still doing. Maybe the client won't care who ruined them and the last person to see them was the OP. That's a lot of responsibility to take on when one makes themselves the middle man.

What you seem to be saying is people should spin the wheel and take their chances and if something gets really messed up too bad we hafta eat it. I get that in some circumstances. Not this one.

In this case, it was obvious to me who was responsible. Oh well, though. Not my book. I'm sure I'm not the only one who resists grading for these very reasons.

 

[NewWorldOrder]

7 hours ago, Randall Ries said:

Going to be tedious, huh? Ok.

There was no excuse to the damage caused to this guys book. If it were MY company, I would have found him another 7.5 on ebay or wherever. Given him that and his damaged copy back. Went to the encapsulation department and taken it out of the encapsulators pay. Aw. Don't like that? Quit, then. Employees would understand me when I said "Damage to a customers book is unacceptable. Absolutely forbidden." When they have to pay for damage they caused and understood that, possibility of damage is going to go way down. I would even bet that they gave this guys book back to the same person who handled it in the first place.

So, yes. I admit eliminating the possibility of damage is likely impossible. But these stories aren't uncommon and becoming more commonplace. Hey. You messed up my book. An expensive book. Send it back! We will fix! How do you fix a rip? Ok. I'll send it back. Comes back and is damaged further.

I'm the guy who isn't sending an expensive, unrestored book to any grading company until I know what my options are. I know for sure when I pack it, it isn't moving. No way no how.

Anything can be insured. I could buy temp insurance while it's out of my hands. I buy shipping insurance when I mail stuff. Before pictures would be a must.

Have you ever paid an attorney and won? Good feeling. And yeah. No DUH. ..."it's up to the OP if he wants to spend more time & money on legal action to prove he wasn't made whole." Send an AV4 x2 and get it back with further damage? Good time to do just that. DUUUHHHHH. That's basically what I have been saying I would do. YOU suck it up if you want to. If an attorney felt I had a really good case, sure! I'd try to make an example of a company that offered me a pittance that ultimately benefits them in the long run. Would not be sending them other peoples books like the OP claims he is still doing. Maybe the client won't care who ruined them and the last person to see them was the OP. That's a lot of responsibility to take on when one makes themselves the middle man.

What you seem to be saying is people should spin the wheel and take their chances and if something gets really messed up too bad we hafta eat it. I get that in some circumstances. Not this one.

In this case, it was obvious to me who was responsible. Oh well, though. Not my book. I'm sure I'm not the only one who resists grading for these very reasons.

 

I have had books damaged from CGC after encapsulation, I got my fair value paid to my account, or was fixed and on to the next one.  I understand for the OP this is "personal" book, so it comes at an added level of hurt.

Anytime you let someone else handle your books you are spinning the wheel, so yes we agree. I know when I send my books off to CGC the PO could destroy all my books before they get to FL. 

I am not making excuses for the situation as I would be equally as frustrated, however I wish you well in finding a group of employees that will work for corporate minimum wage that care about your books the same way you do before their lunch hour.  Not that anyone there is trying to ruin anyone's books, but to most of them in the warehouse, encapsulation, or receiving our books are just one and the same.  Boxes come in and boxes go out, etc.  Now if you are submitting an Action Comics #1 then yes that is much different, but a common book like Avengers #4 and Spawn #1?  One and the same. 

Again my disagreement  with you isn't most of what you just said, but you cant make a hyperbole statement about 0% damage being achieved and think that is ever realistic that any comic book grading company who handles many thousands of comic books per month isn't going to damage books by accident  a certain %.  

My   Take care

Edited May 23, 2021 by NewWorldOrder

[thehumantorch]

8 hours ago, THE_BEYONDER said:

Always the elitist 

I’ll slab my FN/VF Spawn 1, and you’ll like it! 

Sounds like a challenge.  I see your FN/VF Spawn with a ......gasp VG Spawn 1.  Common folks, let's clog the submissions line up big time.....

[THE_BEYONDER]

13 hours ago, thehumantorch said:

Sounds like a challenge.  I see your FN/VF Spawn with a ......gasp VG Spawn 1.  Common folks, let's clog the submissions line up big time.....

I’ve got a longbox of unbagged Image books at the ready

[thehumantorch]

37 minutes ago, THE_BEYONDER said:

I’ve got a longbox of unbagged Image books at the ready

That's the spirit

[NewWorldOrder]

23 hours ago, THE_BEYONDER said:

Always the elitist 

I’ll slab my FN/VF Spawn 1, and you’ll like it!