What happened?

[Buck Biggins]

I know he is not a superhero but the Goon rules hands down. Art is great and every story seems weider and bettter than the last. I would also like if Harbringer from valiant was brought back somehow. I reread the TPB the other day and I still love it as much as the first time I read it.

[fable]

Cerebus too!

[fable]

Never read the Goon but want to pick up some issues - any recommendations?

[Kevin Boyd]

Cerebus is hardly new or a superhero. He's been around since 1977.

[deathlok]

When you go outside of Marvel and DC, all the characters are new. I mean how many Image, Vertigo, etc characters were around 30+ years ago?

 

In fact you could say all Image characters are new (Spawn, Ant, ShadowHawk, Bedrock, etc.)

[Buck Biggins]

Issues 4-9 of the current Dark Horse series is really good. Hell boy guest stars in one of them.

[Kevin Boyd]

When you go outside of Marvel and DC, all the characters are new. I mean how many Image, Vertigo, etc characters were around 30+ years ago?

 

In fact you could say all Image characters are new (Spawn, Ant, ShadowHawk, Bedrock, etc.)

 

Well, Vertigo doesn't publish superhero comics.

 

And sure, every superhero published outside of Marvel and DC are new, as in created within the last 15-16 years or so.

 

But honestly, how many long-lasting Image superheroes are considered great superhero characters though? Savage Dragon? Spawn? Witchblade? The Darkness?

 

Shadowhawk and Bedrock are not characters that have "stuck", which was the original question. Have any of those other characters, even the ones that are still published, have really "stuck".

 

What's your definition of "stuck"? Mine would be "still published", for others it would be "still published and popular". Spawn and Savage Dragon are still published, but they are no longer popular, so have they really "stuck" with the public or have they just "stuck around"?

 

How about over at Wildstorm? The Authority (formerly Stormwatch)? WildC.A.T.s?

 

I don't consider Aspen's characters superheroes. They would be forgotten in a heartbeat if Michael Turner moved on. Fathom is a girl in a bathing suit.

 

After that... Valiant died even though it had some great characters... the Ultraverse didn't last long before it was purchased and removed... Dark Horse's Ghost disappeared long ago. Not many other comics publishers do superhero comics. FemForce?

[Hobgoblin]

When you go outside of Marvel and DC, all the characters are new. I mean how many Image, Vertigo, etc characters were around 30+ years ago?

 

In fact you could say all Image characters are new (Spawn, Ant, ShadowHawk, Bedrock, etc.)

 

True, but then comes the question: How in the name of $^@$#% has Spawn lasted 150 issues?!?!?

[wormboy]

Invincible is a fantastic new superhero book.

Planetary is killer.

Ex Machina also comes to mind.

The first and second Authority runs were almost perfect.

[Kevin Boyd]

Invincible is a fantastic new superhero book.

Planetary is killer.

Ex Machina also comes to mind.

The first and second Authority runs were almost perfect.

 

All good titles, but Planetary isn't a superhero book, even though it explores some of the mythology of super-heroes.

 

Ex Machina is about a former superhero now mayor, but it's more about being a mayor than being a superhero.

 

The Authority, can't argue against that (at least when Ellis and Hitch were doing it) other than that they are superhero stories for adults, and a couple of their central characters are riffs on DC characters (Appolo and the Midnighter/Superman and Batman) and the rest debuted in Stormwatch. However, who in the Authority is a popular character that has "stuck"? Jenny Sparks could have... but she dies at the end of Ellis' run. I hear the new books are good, otherwise I would have marked these characters for extinction by cancellation.

[OldGuy]

I think INVINCIBLE (published by Image Comics) is probably the best new superhero character created in a long time.

 

Couldn't agree more.

[Zanarkand]

He's not a superhero per se, but John Constantine has been around since what, 1989? I think that's the only "pre-Vertigo" Vertigo title left. He may not be major, but I'd say he's stuck. Also, the character archtype stuck - the gritty mystical player working behind DC's scenes - leading to the post-modern reinterpretation of Phantom Stranger and Dr. Occult as the same types of characters.

[deathlok]

When you go outside of Marvel and DC, all the characters are new. I mean how many Image, Vertigo, etc characters were around 30+ years ago?

 

In fact you could say all Image characters are new (Spawn, Ant, ShadowHawk, Bedrock, etc.)

 

Well, Vertigo doesn't publish superhero comics.

 

And sure, every superhero published outside of Marvel and DC are new, as in created within the last 15-16 years or so.

 

But honestly, how many long-lasting Image superheroes are considered great superhero characters though? Savage Dragon? Spawn? Witchblade? The Darkness?

 

Shadowhawk and Bedrock are not characters that have "stuck", which was the original question. Have any of those other characters, even the ones that are still published, have really "stuck".

 

What's your definition of "stuck"? Mine would be "still published", for others it would be "still published and popular". Spawn and Savage Dragon are still published, but they are no longer popular, so have they really "stuck" with the public or have they just "stuck around"?

 

How about over at Wildstorm? The Authority (formerly Stormwatch)? WildC.A.T.s?

 

I don't consider Aspen's characters superheroes. They would be forgotten in a heartbeat if Michael Turner moved on. Fathom is a girl in a bathing suit.

 

After that... Valiant died even though it had some great characters... the Ultraverse didn't last long before it was purchased and removed... Dark Horse's Ghost disappeared long ago. Not many other comics publishers do superhero comics. FemForce?

 

Not really sure which view your taking Kev. You contend that none of these titles/characters have "stuck" according to your definition. Yet you are the one who brought up Invincible, which is a very recent title that has very little following.

 

Not really sure what would qualify in your mind as to success of a character. Spawn has generated over 150 issues, a live action movie, several titles, numerous action figures, a cartoon series, and is widely recognized by most people.

 

Witchblade had a TV show even. WildC.A.T.S. had a cartoon.

 

I realize they don't compare but the likes of many of Dc/Marvel's characters, but surely you accept that they have been more successful and popular than Invinicble, Cerebus, or most others.

[Hobo]

How would Hellboy be considered?

[TheGrayGhost-migration]

Goon is the *hit! I can't get enough of this book. Definitely pick it up. I just recently got back into comics myself, and I find that I'm getting more into the non-super hero books. I have to say that I never saw it as a younging, but books like the goon, middleman, Y, and many others have me switching from the mainstream. Keep reading, and don't give up hope on super hero's.

[Kevin Boyd]

Not really sure which view your taking Kev. You contend that none of these titles/characters have "stuck" according to your definition. Yet you are the one who brought up Invincible, which is a very recent title that has very little following.

 

I'm not interested in getting into a debate, which is why I suggested there are two ways to look at this:

 

1. "Stuck": Part of the public consciousness

 

2. "Stuck Around": Still published but largely forgotten and ignored.

 

I recommended Invincible because it is an excellent new superhero title.

 

Not really sure what would qualify in your mind as to success of a character. Spawn has generated over 150 issues, a live action movie, several titles, numerous action figures, a cartoon series, and is widely recognized by most people.

 

The flame that burns the brightest burns out faster than others. Do you still consider Spawn and Savage Dragon to be successful properties? It's been nearly a decade since Spawn's movie and cartoon show. Action figures? Micronauts had action figures too... so did Rom, Space Knight.

 

Witchblade had a TV show even. WildC.A.T.S. had a cartoon.

 

The Night Man also had a tv show, does that make him a successful property? You forgot to mention the Savage Dragon cartoon show.

 

I realize they don't compare but the likes of many of Dc/Marvel's characters, but surely you accept that they have been more successful and popular than Invinicble, Cerebus, or most others.

 

Cerebus isn't a superhero. Invincible is a new property.

 

But again, what do you consider to be popular? Cerebus wasn't ever popular, but it gained some renown with the comics world. There's "comics popular" and "real world popular".

 

Just because someone makes a tv show out of a new "comics popular" property does that make it "real world popular"? Is that what you are suggesting?

 

I don't think the Witchblade, Night Man, Savage Dragon, WildCATs, et al. tv shows were ever "real world popular", and aside from perhaps the Witchblade show the others died quick and painless deaths. Aside from the few comics people that watched the tv shows the general public couldn't tell you squat about any of those properties.

 

Spawn would be the closest to being the only breakout character, due to the movie and the adult cartoons. There is a generation of kids that remember him, but they aren't buying the comics (or the toys). Unless Todd does something to remind these people the character is still around (I would be hard pressed to find anyone who can give me a synopsis of any of the last 50 issues of Spawn) then he's around merely at the whim of the creator who can afford to keep the character in print from his revenues making action figures of sports stars.

 

You know, there's a Rocketeer movie too, would you say he's endured? A movie doesn't mean a character has "stuck" with anything, it's just a reminder of failed possibilities.

[jokersrevenge]

I read this whole thread and nobody even mentioned cross-gen.....

[Hobgoblin]

I read this whole thread and nobody even mentioned cross-gen.....

 

Who?

[deathlok]

Not really sure which view your taking Kev. You contend that none of these titles/characters have "stuck" according to your definition. Yet you are the one who brought up Invincible, which is a very recent title that has very little following.

 

I'm not interested in getting into a debate, which is why I suggested there are two ways to look at this:

 

1. "Stuck": Part of the public consciousness

 

2. "Stuck Around": Still published but largely forgotten and ignored.

 

I recommended Invincible because it is an excellent new superhero title.

 

Not really sure what would qualify in your mind as to success of a character. Spawn has generated over 150 issues, a live action movie, several titles, numerous action figures, a cartoon series, and is widely recognized by most people.

 

The flame that burns the brightest burns out faster than others. Do you still consider Spawn and Savage Dragon to be successful properties? It's been nearly a decade since Spawn's movie and cartoon show. Action figures? Micronauts had action figures too... so did Rom, Space Knight.

 

Witchblade had a TV show even. WildC.A.T.S. had a cartoon.

 

The Night Man also had a tv show, does that make him a successful property? You forgot to mention the Savage Dragon cartoon show.

 

I realize they don't compare but the likes of many of Dc/Marvel's characters, but surely you accept that they have been more successful and popular than Invinicble, Cerebus, or most others.

 

Cerebus isn't a superhero. Invincible is a new property.

 

But again, what do you consider to be popular? Cerebus wasn't ever popular, but it gained some renown with the comics world. There's "comics popular" and "real world popular".

 

Just because someone makes a tv show out of a new "comics popular" property does that make it "real world popular"? Is that what you are suggesting?

 

I don't think the Witchblade, Night Man, Savage Dragon, WildCATs, et al. tv shows were ever "real world popular", and aside from perhaps the Witchblade show the others died quick and painless deaths. Aside from the few comics people that watched the tv shows the general public couldn't tell you squat about any of those properties.

 

Spawn would be the closest to being the only breakout character, due to the movie and the adult cartoons. There is a generation of kids that remember him, but they aren't buying the comics (or the toys). Unless Todd does something to remind these people the character is still around (I would be hard pressed to find anyone who can give me a synopsis of any of the last 50 issues of Spawn) then he's around merely at the whim of the creator who can afford to keep the character in print from his revenues making action figures of sports stars.

 

You know, there's a Rocketeer movie too, would you say he's endured? A movie doesn't mean a character has "stuck" with anything, it's just a reminder of failed possibilities.

 

You obviously have very thought out ideas abiout what you consider important and what is meaningless. So you're right it isn't worth debating something that the other person is unwilling to listen to your ideas.

 

Enjoy the blinders.

[Kevin Boyd]

You obviously have very thought out ideas abiout what you consider important and what is meaningless. So you're right it isn't worth debating something that the other person is unwilling to listen to your ideas.

 

Enjoy the blinders.