They're Still Out There! 22 22

[lou_fine]

1 hour ago, adamstrange said:

I don't think any experienced dealer would think that there is an easy exit strategy for the Promise books at the prices they just sold for.  If a dealer was involved, it's because they are acting as an agent for someone who either doesn't know that there is no exit strategy, or doesn't care.

I meant dealer/collectors because some big time dealers are also collectors with their own "whale" books.  

Most definitely not a "dealer" who would be putting these big dollar Promise books into their inventory for sale, but a dealer collector who would be locking these unicorns up into their own personal collection for years or possibly even decades.  

[lou_fine]

14 hours ago, jimbo_7071 said:

Do you the high bidder on the Miss Fury #5 with the 1.5" rip on the bottom edge is a newbie? (How would you have graded that book?)

I guess you must have missed my post from way way back somewhere around page 50 of this thread here, as your question is pretty much irrelevant here:   

On 5/11/2021 at 11:46 AM, lou_fine said:

Are you also implying that the book might still also be overgraded in the end, given all of the issues along the edges and corners of the book?  

If so, please take into account that spines, corners, and edges are above the pay grade of the CGC graders for this Promise Collection here, as the "suits" in the corner suite of the penthouse are responsible for those unimportant parts of the book.    

 

[lou_fine]

9 hours ago, RustyStaples said:

All I know is there are probably alot of thrilled winners, and there are probably some remorseful ones too, but I don't think there's hardly anyone who could flip a book they bought yesterday for profit today, it will take a while.  Well maybe one... All American 61, that book was a steal in my opinion.   

 

As per a post which I had made yesterday, I am definitely in full agreement with you on the AA 61, and so are some other boardies here from the response which I got back on the other Heritage Auction thread:  

On 6/18/2021 at 11:54 AM, lou_fine said:

Yes, totally surprised at what some of these mid-run non classic cover Cap and Joker 'Tec books managed to run up to.   

Makes me wonder if the AA 61 with the all-time classic Solomon Grundy cover would have gone higher than its final $138K price point  since it was only the second lot in the auction and most likely before bidders knew how much they would have to up their game in order to win some of these Promise Collection books later on?    

Looking at some of these results so far, from my own personal POV, I would say the winner of the AA 61 got themselves a relative steal in comparison.  

After the last 2 days, my thinking now is that the CGC 9.5 graded Promise copy of AA 61 would have possibly gone for somewhere in the $175K to $225K price range if the lot have hit the auction block after some of the other big books, and definitely for sure or possibly even slightly more if the Church CGC 9.8 graded copy was not there.  

[lou_fine]

3 hours ago, Mmehdy said:

$33600 to $51,000 in a day...wow what a flip

Only if he can find a bigger sucker than the one who paid $33,600 for it and now wants to resell it right away.    

[lou_fine]

@Timely;

Now that we have some actual auction results here, shall we play this same game again, except with the PL 17 instead of the 'Tec 140:  

On 6/8/2021 at 1:43 PM, lou_fine said:

Is he leaning your way in terms of his mind frame that this Promise Copy of 'Tec 140 is not good for his Church copy in terms of its potential placing within the CGC Census Population Report?  

Or is he leaning towards my way of thinking that he's waiting with great anticipation to see the result of this auction for the Promise Copy in expectation that it will set a new high water mark in terms of pricing and actually be good for his Church copy?  Especially in the sense of a rising tide lifting all boats, including his Church copy of 'Tec 140, regardless of where it lands in the CGC census.  

 

On 6/8/2021 at 4:58 PM, Timely said:

If his copy is a 9.8, it won’t matter.

If his copy is a 9.6 he would be tied with the Promise Copy,  slight affect on value. 

If his copy is a 9.4 he’s in the dog house! Probably lost $50k in value!

As we all know by now, the Promise Collection copy of PL 17 has sold at the rather surprising and staggering price point of $456K.    

So, do you still hold onto your argument that the owner of the now former highest graded CGC 9.4 copy of PL 17 which they brought in a CC Event Auction back in 2019 is now crying into their pillow because their copy is no longer the highest graded, and as a direct result of losing this status, their CGC 9.4 graded copy would now be worth less than the $121K that they had paid for it?    

Or do you think the owner of the former highest graded 9.4 copy views the Promise sale price point of $456K as a rising tide lifting all boats and their now second highest graded copy might have actually gone up in value and even worth more today (possibly a lot more ) then the $121K wich they had paid for it when the book was the highest graded copy at the time?    

Edited June 20, 2021 by lou_fine

[MasterChief]

3 hours ago, tth2 said:

Parrino actually had the right idea because he understood just how much market dynamics were going to change.  Jimbo pointed out earlier how the slabbed comics market has completely tracked the evolution of the slabbed coin market.  Parrino just messed up on the execution. 

First, he relied on less than scrupulous dealers who saw him as a cash cow to be exploited unmercifully. 

Second, although he had the right idea to buy the highest graded comics and recognized what an incredible phenomenon the Church collection was, he got directed into a lot of lesser titles that said unscrupulous dealers and their clients were only too happy to have found a victim to unload on.  I remember being awed when I first saw the listings of the Church All-Flash run, and then I snapped back to reality as I realized it was All-Flash.  The flaw with his focus on the Church books was that most of the owners of the key Church runs had no interest in selling and he couldn't persuade them to sell at any price, which is something he didn't anticipate.  

Wasn't one of Parrino's buying advisors Bill Hughes?

Hughes, from what I understand, wasn't the EF Hutton of comic books that Parrino was hoping for. Bought too much too quickly. Overpaid for a lot of material. Took major losses upon liquidation. The advisors, as they say, did quite well for themselves.   

I personally don’t know Bill Hughes. Always admired his books and liked looking at his website. One of the big players in the hobby, so to speak. Not sure if this has been discussed before, but it seems the worm turns quickly in the wacky world of comic books...

Complaint Review: Heritage Auctions
Submitted: Mon, May 26, 2014
Updated: Thu, July 17, 2014
Reported By: William Hughes

"Between 2001 and 2009 minimally, Heritage Auctions has used their vast financial resources, position in the collectibles industry and experience in manipulating the accounting of sales of consigned goods to steal, cheat and con clients who enter into consignment relationships with them in good faith. I personally entered into well over $3,000,000 worth of transactions with these crooks and ended up on the short end of the stick to the tune of hundreds of thousands, if not over a million dollars (I am still figuring out the magnitude of the deception and malfeasance on their part)..."

Link to original report and follow-up posts:

https://www.ripoffreport.com/reports/heritage-auctions/internet/heritage-auctions-heritage-comics-heritage-sports-collectibles-heritage-movie-posters-f-1149717#comment_7

[Timely]

5 hours ago, lou_fine said:

@Timely;

Now that we have some actual auction results here, shall we play this same game again, except with the PL 17 instead of the 'Tec 140:  

 

As we all know by now, the Promise Collection copy of PL 17 has sold at the rather surprising and staggering price point of $456K.    

So, do you still hold onto your argument that the owner of the now former highest graded CGC 9.4 copy of PL 17 which they brought in a CC Event Auction back in 2019 is now crying into their pillow because their copy is no longer the highest graded, and as a direct result of losing this status, their CGC 9.4 graded copy would now be worth less than the $121K that they had paid for it?    

Or do you think the owner of the former highest graded 9.4 copy views the Promise sale price point of $456K as a rising tide lifting all boats and their now second highest graded copy might have actually gone up in value and even worth more today (possibly a lot more ) then the $121K wich they had paid for it when the book was the highest graded copy at the time?    

You are right. The owner of the 9.4 PL 17 must be very happy to have the 2nd Highest Graded Copy.

I sure it will be in the press next week, if not sooner!

Edited June 20, 2021 by Timely

[GreatCaesarsGhost]

6 hours ago, MasterChief said:

Wasn't one of Parrino's buying advisors Bill Hughes?

Hughes, from what I understand, wasn't the EF Hutton of comic books that Parrino was hoping for. Bought too much too quickly. Overpaid for a lot of material. Took major losses upon liquidation. The advisors, as they say, did quite well for themselves.   

I personally don’t know Bill Hughes. Always admired his books and liked looking at his website. One of the big players in the hobby, so to speak. Not sure if this has been discussed before, but it seems the worm turns quickly in the wacky world of comic books...

Complaint Review: Heritage Auctions
Submitted: Mon, May 26, 2014
Updated: Thu, July 17, 2014
Reported By: William Hughes

"Between 2001 and 2009 minimally, Heritage Auctions has used their vast financial resources, position in the collectibles industry and experience in manipulating the accounting of sales of consigned goods to steal, cheat and con clients who enter into consignment relationships with them in good faith. I personally entered into well over $3,000,000 worth of transactions with these crooks and ended up on the short end of the stick to the tune of hundreds of thousands, if not over a million dollars (I am still figuring out the magnitude of the deception and malfeasance on their part)..."

Link to original report and follow-up posts:

https://www.ripoffreport.com/reports/heritage-auctions/internet/heritage-auctions-heritage-comics-heritage-sports-collectibles-heritage-movie-posters-f-1149717#comment_7

Wow. I never knew any of this. Is this related to the parrino thing?

[buttock]

9 minutes ago, GreatCaesarsGhost said:

Wow. I never knew any of this. Is this related to the parrino thing?

I think if this had any merit it would be in court instead of a D-level complaint website.  

[batman_fan]

1 minute ago, buttock said:

I think if this had any merit it would be in court instead of a D-level complaint website.  

I am not saying Heritage didn't do something wrong but the brief snippet has no real solid accusation just high level ones.  Why didn't they give details that could actually be verified?

[buttock]

Just now, batman_fan said:

I am not saying Heritage didn't do something wrong but the brief snippet has no real solid accusation just high level ones.  Why didn't they give details that could actually be verified?

Yeah, and Bill Hughes doesn't exactly have a sterling reputation.  

[batman_fan]

1 minute ago, buttock said:

Yeah, and Bill Hughes doesn't exactly have a sterling reputation.  

Fact check: True

when you have been in business for as long as Heritage, you are going to have some complaints.  Some may be valid and some not.

I did buy my More Fun 65 from Bill back in like 2001 but it is a lower grade copy and was CGC graded.  At the time it was pretty expensive.

[Terry JSA]

On 6/19/2021 at 6:16 PM, adamstrange said:

I don't think the people spending this kind of money care much one way or another about the story, in so far as it affects their interest or bidding.

More likely, this auction provided convenience.  In one simple event, a collector can bid on hundreds of books in killer condition.  They are unlikely to have searched other comic book sites for these books in other grades because they lacked awareness or time to do so.

 

This was my reasoning for bidding in this auction. There was books I was after but since they rarely turn up anywhere else, this was my best bet. I ended up getting a Flash Comics #88 out of it since it’s a book you hardly ever see come to market. 

Edited June 20, 2021 by Terry_JSA

[Mmehdy]

13 hours ago, lou_fine said:

Didn't Mitch say way back in the beginning of this thread here that some of the big time dealers were planning to go hard after some of these books and were already in the process of putting big time dollars aside to scoop up a whole bunch of these Promise Collection books here?  

Then again, if he was basing this comment on his original estimate for this first batch of Promise books which was definitely far down the ladder, I am not sure if the dealers collectors would have been willing to go this high on these books for their own personal collection. 

I did and they did but at the time no one would of predicted that TCBC on this board or watchers of this board would come on very very strong and knock out a lot of those dealers. The bidding on the "Promise book" was off the charts in terms of Amount of bidders as well as the astounding final prices. I talked yesterday evening with my Collector/Dealer friend who was hoping a few of the books would fall thru the cracks and double up and then flip in 3/4 years and get their collector copies for free, and he did bid a lot, but both me and him were way way off in terms of what the prices which were actually paid. Look the secret is out, but for those on the boards who now own you "Promise Books"  most of these are gone into permanent collections ...and certainly if you ever reduce your collection these would the last to go because in 9.2 or the impossible 9.8 they will never get any better nor will ever be able to replace them again in same condition or pedigree

Edited June 20, 2021 by Mmehdy

[Funnybooks]

9 hours ago, lou_fine said:

@Timely;

Now that we have some actual auction results here, shall we play this same game again, except with the PL 17 instead of the 'Tec 140:  

 

As we all know by now, the Promise Collection copy of PL 17 has sold at the rather surprising and staggering price point of $456K.    

So, do you still hold onto your argument that the owner of the now former highest graded CGC 9.4 copy of PL 17 which they brought in a CC Event Auction back in 2019 is now crying into their pillow because their copy is no longer the highest graded, and as a direct result of losing this status, their CGC 9.4 graded copy would now be worth less than the $121K that they had paid for it?    

Or do you think the owner of the former highest graded 9.4 copy views the Promise sale price point of $456K as a rising tide lifting all boats and their now second highest graded copy might have actually gone up in value and even worth more today (possibly a lot more ) then the $121K wich they had paid for it when the book was the highest graded copy at the time?    

What if the new owner of the 9.6 also owns the 9.4? 

Considering the results, I suppose that those of us that predicated PL 17 or 'Tec 140 would be the highest selling Promise book in the auction were both right 

Just a wonderful event by Heritage and congratulations to the "Promise" family, HA, and the winners of these books. Truly outstanding results and  an auction for the history books. I believe these results will not be truly appreciated until some time passes regardless of which side of the fence you fall regarding the collection.

[Terry JSA]

15 minutes ago, Funnybooks said:

What if the new owner of the 9.6 also owns the 9.4? 

 

That would be insane, 1 owner owns two of the highest graded PL #17’s ever. 

15 minutes ago, Funnybooks said:

Just a wonderful event by Heritage and congratulations to the "Promise" family, HA, and the winners of these books. Truly outstanding results and  an auction for the history books. I believe these results will not be truly appreciated until some time passes regardless of which side of the fence you fall regarding the collection.

It was most definitely a wonderful auction to watch, seeing a high grade GA collection hit auction with a cool backstory behind it and just seeing them sell live. I wonder the what the rest of the collection has to offer besides the ones we saw within the last month, just imagine what treasures are left of this pedigree. 

Edited June 20, 2021 by Terry_JSA

[RareHighGrade]

5 hours ago, Timely said:

You are right. The owner of the 9.4 PL 17 must be very happy to have the 2nd Highest Graded Copy.

I sure it will be in the press next week, if not sooner!

IMO the 9.4 copy is nicer than the 9.6, which is miscut and has visible scuff marks.  The 9.4 owner should be ecstatic.

[jimbo_7071]

10 hours ago, Funnybooks said:

What if the new owner of the 9.6 also owns the 9.4? 

Considering the results, I suppose that those of us that predicated PL 17 or 'Tec 140 would be the highest selling Promise book in the auction were both right 

Just a wonderful event by Heritage and congratulations to the "Promise" family, HA, and the winners of these books. Truly outstanding results and  an auction for the history books. I believe these results will not be truly appreciated until some time passes regardless of which side of the fence you fall regarding the collection.

You're assuming that some of the money is going to the family. Knowing how comic book dealers operate, that's a big assumption.

[MattTheDuck]

18 minutes ago, jimbo_7071 said:

You're assuming that some of the money is going to the family. Knowing how comic book dealers operate, that's a big assumption.

I hope they understood going in the kind of negotiating power they had.

[lou_fine]

23 minutes ago, MattTheDuck said:

42 minutes ago, jimbo_7071 said:

You're assuming that some of the money is going to the family. Knowing how comic book dealers operate, that's a big assumption.

I hope they understood going in the kind of negotiating power they had.

From one of the videos posted, it would appear that the extent of the knowledge they had was that the collection was pretty much in the G/VG condition grade range.   

Edited June 21, 2021 by lou_fine