Are prices still climbing or have they eased up a bit??? 43 43

[SeniorSurfer]

On 5/12/2023 at 10:47 PM, mjoeyoung said:

It seems to me that the general public is just getting tired of superhero movies

We've read this in lots of different sources - amazing that now it's so normal to say that a movie with a BO take of "only" 500 or 600M is seen as a failure (Ant Man seems to have tapped out at 475M) - but I wonder if it can't be due to other things rather than superhero movie fatigue.  Sure Disney oversaturation or the mishandling of the material (bad writing, bad casting, excessive CGI to substitute for story, etc.) can be blamed, but what about something simpler?  Like an audience disinterest/unfamiliarity in the character?

Though I haven't bought a new book in ages, I've been collecting since the 60s and have a pretty good idea of the major (and most minor) Marvel/DC superhero characters since that time.  In the movies I'd say that sometimes you catch lightning in a bottle, resonating with audiences by introducing such 2nd-tier characters as GotG or Deadpool or even TMNT.  But I'd also say that more often than not, when you start dipping too deeply into the well (trying to avoid saying "scraping the bottom of the barrel"), there's an audience disconnect because of unfamiliarity and they'll just shrug their shoulders.  I posit that the average movie-goer might just be attracted to and spend (an ever-increasing ticket price for) the films where hero name recognition plays a part.  I know this might seem like a bold statement to the powers-that-be but... not every superhero character makes for a good read or is interesting.  I know as a collector that you just can't buy every single book or have an interest to do so.  I religiously collected about 8-12 titles at a time and spot issues of other books that had interesting covers or formats (like the B&W magazines or GN).  So I wonder if there would be this BO slowdown if they would now stick to staggering recognizable audience favorites across time.  Less films but more character awareness, like the Bond franchise which has survived for more than 60 years.  Would there be a slowdown if ASM is released every two years, with intervening years taken up by the (now) more familiar Cap or Iron Man or Hulk or FF or X-Men solo film?  In the context of this thread, core character book prices would probably stabilize, maybe even show a steady increase and periodically spike as the movie approaches a release date.  Successful core books for Marvel and DC should make for successful general movie interest - when limited and higher standards are exercised in their production.

That's probably not what corporate wants to hear though.  Marvel is attempting to weave another multi-film story to culminate in an Endgame-like blaze of glory but I just don't think they're going to hold that interest with the likes of Shang Chi or The Thunderbolts as story elements.  For that matter, I don't see a DC hero movie renaissance by trotting out Booster Gold or Blue Beetle or The Authority either.  Maybe when that seemingly endless money supply starts to dwindle they'll be more judicious in future projects.

[mjoeyoung]

On 5/13/2023 at 8:55 AM, SeniorSurfer said:

We've read this in lots of different sources - amazing that now it's so normal to say that a movie with a BO take of "only" 500 or 600M is seen as a failure (Ant Man seems to have tapped out at 475M)

When a movie costs $200M and you spend $100M on advertising and then the movie makers only get about 50% of the actual ticket sales, you apparently need $600M just to break even!

On 5/13/2023 at 8:55 AM, SeniorSurfer said:

Less films but more character awareness, like the Bond franchise which has survived for more than 60 years.

Completely agree here.  They should never have eliminated the characters of Iron Man and Captain America.  RDJ and Chris Evans would have been hard to replace, but if you can replace Connery as Bond, you can replace anybody.

[jjonahjameson11]

Re: dwindling box office returns…

yeah, what you guys said, in addition to folks finding other things to do during Covid…folks haven’t returned to the movie theatres to pre-pandemic numbers.  Many folks (myself included) don’t feel the need to go back

[snitzer]

On 5/14/2023 at 12:49 AM, jjonahjameson11 said:

Re: dwindling box office returns…

yeah, what you guys said, in addition to folks finding other things to do during Covid…folks haven’t returned to the movie theatres to pre-pandemic numbers.  Many folks (myself included) don’t feel the need to go back

Top Gun, Avatar, Spidey, and now Mario Bros., have shown plenty of people still go when the film is worth it.

Edited May 14, 2023 by snitzer

[jjonahjameson11]

On 5/14/2023 at 10:45 PM, snitzer said:

Top Gun, Avatar, Spidey, and now Mario Bros., have shown plenty of people still go when the film is worth it.

All of them would have interested me to go to the theatre pre-Covid.

however, only went to see Maverick, just like all of my buddies

[jimjum12]

On 5/13/2023 at 10:55 AM, SeniorSurfer said:

That's probably not what corporate wants to hear though.  Marvel is attempting to weave another multi-film story to culminate in an Endgame-like blaze of glory but I just don't think they're going to hold that interest with the likes of Shang Chi or The Thunderbolts as story elements.  For that matter, I don't see a DC hero movie renaissance by trotting out Booster Gold or Blue Beetle or The Authority either.  Maybe when that seemingly endless money supply starts to dwindle they'll be more judicious in future projects.

... ironic that the downward spiral and lowering sales of the source material began with multiple crossovers of franchises and the inevitable burnout that ensues. It would seem that a suit and tie is no defense against self cannibalizing greed and stupidity.... even in Hollywood. Those who don't learn from the past .... GOD BLESS ... 

-jimbo(a friend of jesus)

[Nick Furious]

I think the success of GOTG created a false hope that MCU could transition from A list characters to C and D list characters and audiences would follow.  If all the latest movies had been on par with GOTG, maybe that would have been the case.  But that's a tough act to follow.  

[dikran]

I did quite well on Collectors Comics auction over the weekend, well in line with recent GPA results. Plus no fees. Sold a bunch of nice mid to high grade undercopies of SA BA keys. Very happy with them. 

[MAR1979]

On 5/12/2023 at 8:17 PM, Beige said:

FWIW - the ground level books are stone cold.

 

Worst ebay quarter for 8 years - by a mile.

 

Unless they are keys - the comic items are stone cold.

 

Needs a good run of movies to make comics 'talked about' again.

Redux's usually are very minimal compared to the original. A new run will have greatly diminished affects across the board.  Many other Collecting Hobby's are going through same thing. Bigger the bubble the more widespread the burst!

[Happy Noodle Boy]

On 5/12/2023 at 6:00 PM, mjoeyoung said:

Sure seems like it.  9.8s run fillers seem to be bucking the downward trend.  FF 95 had a 9.8 sale of $1500, up from $927 in 2022.  Last 9.6 sale was $228.

If there isn't a thread dedicated to the insanity of paying a 5X multiple of the 9.6 price for a 9.8, there really should be. I feel like someday the whole 9.8 fad will collapse and the hobby will collectively realize just how much money it has wasted chasing a subjective and mostly meaningless number ("It's a teeny tiny little microscopic bit better than a 9.6--except when it isn't! And who cares that the 9.6 has better centering!"), but so far I've been dead wrong. I get that for resellers, 9.8 is sometimes the only grade that makes sense financially. But for people who are paying through the nose for 9.8s for their personal collection...it just seems strange.

I started buying comics in the 1970's, off of spinner racks, and I almost never encountered comics that were essentially perfect, even fresh off the rack. 9.8 comics, at least from the copper age on back, just look unnatural to me. I think Overstreet had it right when he listed 9.2 as the defacto highest grade.

[buttock]

On 5/15/2023 at 6:33 AM, Mark Warren said:

I started buying comics in the 1970's, off of spinner racks, and I almost never encountered comics that were essentially perfect, even fresh off the rack. 

Which is why people pay more for 9.8s

[alexgross.com]

On 5/15/2023 at 5:33 AM, Mark Warren said:

If there isn't a thread dedicated to the insanity of paying a 5X multiple of the 9.6 price for a 9.8, there really should be. I feel like someday the whole 9.8 fad will collapse and the hobby will collectively realize just how much money it has wasted chasing a subjective and mostly meaningless number ("It's a teeny tiny little microscopic bit better than a 9.6--except when it isn't! And who cares that the 9.6 has better centering!"), but so far I've been dead wrong. I get that for resellers, 9.8 is sometimes the only grade that makes sense financially. But for people who are paying through the nose for 9.8s for their personal collection...it just seems strange.

I started buying comics in the 1970's, off of spinner racks, and I almost never encountered comics that were essentially perfect, even fresh off the rack. 9.8 comics, at least from the copper age on back, just look unnatural to me. I think Overstreet had it right when he listed 9.2 as the defacto highest grade.

9.9 and 10.0 prices are even sillier than 9.8 ones! and i agree that it's ludicrous that a teeny tiny often indistinguishable difference should be worth 5x more. but i dont think it will ever change. too many people will want the status of 'best grade' for their books. 

[southern cross]

Check out Heritage auctions for teen titans, a couple of 9.6s some sole highest grade going for $1.5k-$2k  atm

And Boston TTA 72 that I need but I've been way priced out, I also don't like the staple placement which gave me pause after I was out bid over $400

Edited May 15, 2023 by southern cross
Typo

[buttock]

On 5/15/2023 at 7:54 AM, southern cross said:

Check out Heritage auctions for teen titans, a couple of 9.6s some sole highest grade going for $1.5k-$2k  atm

And Boston TTA 72 that I need but I've been way priced out, I also don't like the staple placement which gave me pause after I was out bid over $400

Those Teen Titans are wild.  

[Sweet Lou 14]

On 5/13/2023 at 10:55 AM, SeniorSurfer said:

We've read this in lots of different sources - amazing that now it's so normal to say that a movie with a BO take of "only" 500 or 600M is seen as a failure (Ant Man seems to have tapped out at 475M) - but I wonder if it can't be due to other things rather than superhero movie fatigue.  Sure Disney oversaturation or the mishandling of the material (bad writing, bad casting, excessive CGI to substitute for story, etc.) can be blamed, but what about something simpler?  Like an audience disinterest/unfamiliarity in the character?

Though I haven't bought a new book in ages, I've been collecting since the 60s and have a pretty good idea of the major (and most minor) Marvel/DC superhero characters since that time.  In the movies I'd say that sometimes you catch lightning in a bottle, resonating with audiences by introducing such 2nd-tier characters as GotG or Deadpool or even TMNT.  But I'd also say that more often than not, when you start dipping too deeply into the well (trying to avoid saying "scraping the bottom of the barrel"), there's an audience disconnect because of unfamiliarity and they'll just shrug their shoulders.  I posit that the average movie-goer might just be attracted to and spend (an ever-increasing ticket price for) the films where hero name recognition plays a part.  I know this might seem like a bold statement to the powers-that-be but... not every superhero character makes for a good read or is interesting.  I know as a collector that you just can't buy every single book or have an interest to do so.  I religiously collected about 8-12 titles at a time and spot issues of other books that had interesting covers or formats (like the B&W magazines or GN).  So I wonder if there would be this BO slowdown if they would now stick to staggering recognizable audience favorites across time.  Less films but more character awareness, like the Bond franchise which has survived for more than 60 years.  Would there be a slowdown if ASM is released every two years, with intervening years taken up by the (now) more familiar Cap or Iron Man or Hulk or FF or X-Men solo film?  In the context of this thread, core character book prices would probably stabilize, maybe even show a steady increase and periodically spike as the movie approaches a release date.  Successful core books for Marvel and DC should make for successful general movie interest - when limited and higher standards are exercised in their production.

That's probably not what corporate wants to hear though.  Marvel is attempting to weave another multi-film story to culminate in an Endgame-like blaze of glory but I just don't think they're going to hold that interest with the likes of Shang Chi or The Thunderbolts as story elements.  For that matter, I don't see a DC hero movie renaissance by trotting out Booster Gold or Blue Beetle or The Authority either.  Maybe when that seemingly endless money supply starts to dwindle they'll be more judicious in future projects.

As you mention, when the material is really good then audiences don't seem to have any problem getting into it regardless of character recognition.  You cited GOTG and others within the Marvel/DC world, but we could also cite indie books like The Crow, The Walking Dead, or The Boys where pretty obscure (to the general public) material did extremely well in the theaters or on TV screens.  (That doesn't say anything about whether the relevant comics increased in value or, more importantly, whether they retained that initial spike in value -- I wouldn't know since I don't collect those.)

Most recently, and in the video game genre instead of comics -- and I apologize to anyone who's going to think I must have been living under a rock -- I have to admit I had never heard of The Last of Us before it became a huge hit this past year.  My original reaction was "this sounds like another zombie show and I don't need any more of that thanks" and then by episode three everyone I knew was demanding that I go watch it.  And now I'm a fan!

Edited May 15, 2023 by Sweet Lou 14

[Microchip]

On 5/16/2023 at 12:27 AM, buttock said:

On 5/15/2023 at 11:54 PM, southern cross said:

Check out Heritage auctions for teen titans, a couple of 9.6s some sole highest grade going for $1.5k-$2k  atm

And Boston TTA 72 that I need but I've been way priced out, I also don't like the staple placement which gave me pause after I was out bid over $400

Those Teen Titans are wild.  

It's always been there.  I wish I could have sold my Doom Patrol #99 many times over. 

[mjoeyoung]

On 5/15/2023 at 8:27 AM, buttock said:

On 5/15/2023 at 7:54 AM, southern cross said:

Check out Heritage auctions for teen titans, a couple of 9.6s some sole highest grade going for $1.5k-$2k  atm

And Boston TTA 72 that I need but I've been way priced out, I also don't like the staple placement which gave me pause after I was out bid over $400

Those Teen Titans are wild.  

Those prices are simply dumb.

Teen Titans #14 in 9.6 sells for $240 in 2019 and then sells for $5040?

$8400 for TT #12 that only has 34 on the census?

$6000 for TT #13, last sale of a 9.6 was $256 in 2020 and their are only 36 on the census?

These books are from 1968, is it really possible that these are the only high grade copies in existence?

This is some high level stupidity.  This is Beanie Babies dumbness.

[The humble Watcher lurking]

On 5/15/2023 at 7:45 AM, MAR1979 said:

Redux's usually are very minimal compared to the original. A new run will have greatly diminished affects across the board.  Many other Collecting Hobby's are going through same thing. Bigger the bubble the more widespread the burst!

Sports cards are getting thrashed, especially the modern market. 

[paperheart]

On 5/15/2023 at 7:36 PM, mjoeyoung said:

Those prices are simply dumb.

Teen Titans #14 in 9.6 sells for $240 in 2019 and then sells for $5040?

$8400 for TT #12 that only has 34 on the census?

$6000 for TT #13, last sale of a 9.6 was $256 in 2020 and their are only 36 on the census?

These books are from 1968, is it really possible that these are the only high grade copies in existence?

This is some high level stupidity.  This is Beanie Babies dumbness.

that was my sale on CC

[southern cross]

Congrats to the seller.