Are prices still climbing or have they eased up a bit??? 43 43

[Microchip]

On 8/22/2023 at 12:35 AM, lou_fine said:

Not sure if this is just a typo on your part here or if you are working on the incorrect assumption that many boardies seem to have here with regards to this Blackstone purchase?  

What Blackstone purchased at a value of some $500M was CCG which is made up of seven subsidary companies under their ownership umbrella, of which CGC is only one of these seven companies.  Anything to do with the CGC portion and the comic book market was probably nothing more than an afterthought to Blackstone as the CGC side of their operations is only a small fractional part of the whole CCG group operations.  Especially since the biggest part of their entire operations by far is really about the dreary and boring coins and numismatic side of their business.  If anything, with the entertainers like Jay Z and the sports personality linkages that were also invloved in the purchase, my bet is that they were more interested in the then still untapped potential for them of the card grading business.  Especially with all of the flashy buzz and hype at the time about NFT's and million dollar sports cards and as such, the purchase probably didn't really focus that much on the comic books per se.    

For us boardies here, we always think that it's always all about the comic books, but for big investment companies like Blackstone and their partners, probably not so much since the CGC comic book side was really only a fractional portion of the entire CCG purchase.  Heck, for comparison purposesand in perspective, although they brought a majority control of CCG which valued the company at over $500M, they followed this up a few short weeks later with a similar type of majority purchase in Reese Witherspoon's Hello Sunshine media and production company which valued her company at about $900M or almost double the value of CCG.  

Still rumour has it, Larry Fink has a large collection of Dazzler, and Gen13 books he's looking to get graded.    Watch out for Reece, and Jay Z, to start shill bidding those titles soon  

[wiparker824]

On 8/21/2023 at 5:07 PM, Tom789 said:

I think these links are an interesting juxtaposition regarding raw vs. graded prices these days.  The first is a raw ASM #41 graded at F- (5.5) by Heritage. The second, in the very next auction, is of a CGC 5.5 ASM #41.  The raw book outsold the graded by $48.  The graded was more than $100 lower than my price guide (GoCollect) estimate.  The first book has a somewhat better eye appeal IMO, but I don't understand how a raw book, especially one not held in hand, can go for that much higher than a slab in the same grade.

The Amazing Spider-Man #41 (Marvel, 1966) Condition: FN-.... Silver | Lot #15246 | Heritage Auctions (ha.com)

The Amazing Spider-Man #41 (Marvel, 1966) CGC FN- 5.5 Off-white to | Lot #15247 | Heritage Auctions (ha.com)

 

I’d rather own the raw one of the two. Spine wear on both looks similar but the dog ear crease on the graded book bottom right corner would sway me towards the raw book. Not sure if it would grade better than a 5.5 but I’d rather pay a bit more and have the better book personally if I was buying between the two.  

[lou_fine]

On 8/21/2023 at 5:07 PM, Tom789 said:

I think these links are an interesting juxtaposition regarding raw vs. graded prices these days.  The first is a raw ASM #41 graded at F- (5.5) by Heritage. The second, in the very next auction, is of a CGC 5.5 ASM #41.  The raw book outsold the graded by $48.  The graded was more than $100 lower than my price guide (GoCollect) estimate.  The first book has a somewhat better eye appeal IMO, but I don't understand how a raw book, especially one not held in hand, can go for that much higher than a slab in the same grade.

The Amazing Spider-Man #41 (Marvel, 1966) Condition: FN-.... Silver | Lot #15246 | Heritage Auctions (ha.com)

The Amazing Spider-Man #41 (Marvel, 1966) CGC FN- 5.5 Off-white to | Lot #15247 | Heritage Auctions (ha.com)

 

Not exactly sure what you are asking here because I believe you answered your own question as both copies had the exact same equivalent grade, but the one with better eye appeal sold for more slighly more money?  

Do you really expect bidders to bid more for an equivalent graded copy that does not present as nicely from a strict visual point of view?  

Now, if it was a significantly lower graded or restored raw copy that sold for significantly more money than a higher graded CGC Universal copy of the exact same book, then I would find that to be more surprising.  Then again, we've seen this scenario before and certainly on more than just one occasion.    

Edited August 22, 2023 by lou_fine

[lou_fine]

On 8/21/2023 at 9:12 PM, lou_fine said:

Now, if it was a significantly lower graded or restored raw copy that sold for significantly more money than a higher graded CGC Universal copy of the exact same book, then I would find that to be more surprising.  Then again, we've seen this scenario before and certainly on more than just one occasion.    

Here's an example of a lower graded raw restored copy selling for significantly more money than a higher graded raw copy of the exact same book which I found rather interesting, albeit not in the same auction:  

https://comics.ha.com/itm/golden-age-1938-1955-/adventure/adventure-comics-33-dc-1938-condition-apparent-gd-vg/a/122207-13007.s?ic4=ListView-ShortDescription-071515

The above restored raw graded G/VG copy sold for $5,040 or just over 9X unrestored condition guide value in a Sunday weekend Heritage auction back in February of 2022 while the below CGC 4.0 graded copy sold for a mere $2,040 or only 2.6X condition guide value in a Heritage Signature Auction a few short months later:  

 

https://comics.ha.com/itm/golden-age-1938-1955-/adventure/adventure-comics-33-dc-1938-cgc-vg-40-off-white-pages/a/7279-94063.s?ic4=ListView-ShortDescription-071515

I guess one possible explanation for this seeming anomaly is the possible different clientale as the Heritage weekend auctions probably attracts the more "frugal" bidders who are "bargain hunting" for the lower end books in this grade range while their Signature Auctions tends to attract the eyeballs of the more deep pocketed bidders who are looking for the higher end certified books. Of course, with the restoration, the first copy does seem to be present nicer in terms of being cleaner and brighter although I don't really care much for the obvious miscut on the top edge.  

 

Edited August 22, 2023 by lou_fine

[rlextherobot]

On 8/22/2023 at 7:27 AM, lou_fine said:

Here's an example of a lower graded raw restored copy selling for significantly more money than a higher graded raw copy of the exact same book which I found rather interesting, albeit not in the same auction:  

https://comics.ha.com/itm/golden-age-1938-1955-/adventure/adventure-comics-33-dc-1938-condition-apparent-gd-vg/a/122207-13007.s?ic4=ListView-ShortDescription-071515

The above restored raw graded G/VG copy sold for $5,040 or just over 9X unrestored condition guide value in a Sunday weekend Heritage auction back in February of 2022 while the below CGC 4.0 graded copy sold for a mere $2,040 or only 2.6X condition guide value in a Heritage Signature Auction a few short months later:  

 

https://comics.ha.com/itm/golden-age-1938-1955-/adventure/adventure-comics-33-dc-1938-cgc-vg-40-off-white-pages/a/7279-94063.s?ic4=ListView-ShortDescription-071515

I guess one possible explanation for this seeming anomaly is the possible different clientale as the Heritage weekend auctions probably attracts the more "frugal" bidders who are "bargain hunting" for the lower end books in this grade range while their Signature Auctions tends to attract the eyeballs of the more deep pocketed bidders who are looking for the higher end certified books. Of course, with the restoration, the first copy does seem to be present nicer in terms of being cleaner and brighter although I don't really care much for the obvious miscut on the top edge.  

 

Is it being a Golden Age book a factor here? My casual observation seems to be that resto stigma is less prevalent with GA comics simply because there's so few of them and presentable copies seem pretty thin on the ground.

Edited August 22, 2023 by rlextherobot

[wiparker824]

On 8/22/2023 at 7:27 AM, lou_fine said:

Here's an example of a lower graded raw restored copy selling for significantly more money than a higher graded raw copy of the exact same book which I found rather interesting, albeit not in the same auction:  

https://comics.ha.com/itm/golden-age-1938-1955-/adventure/adventure-comics-33-dc-1938-condition-apparent-gd-vg/a/122207-13007.s?ic4=ListView-ShortDescription-071515

The above restored raw graded G/VG copy sold for $5,040 or just over 9X unrestored condition guide value in a Sunday weekend Heritage auction back in February of 2022 while the below CGC 4.0 graded copy sold for a mere $2,040 or only 2.6X condition guide value in a Heritage Signature Auction a few short months later:  

 

https://comics.ha.com/itm/golden-age-1938-1955-/adventure/adventure-comics-33-dc-1938-cgc-vg-40-off-white-pages/a/7279-94063.s?ic4=ListView-ShortDescription-071515

I guess one possible explanation for this seeming anomaly is the possible different clientale as the Heritage weekend auctions probably attracts the more "frugal" bidders who are "bargain hunting" for the lower end books in this grade range while their Signature Auctions tends to attract the eyeballs of the more deep pocketed bidders who are looking for the higher end certified books. Of course, with the restoration, the first copy does seem to be present nicer in terms of being cleaner and brighter although I don't really care much for the obvious miscut on the top edge.  

 

Seems like an anomaly. I watched a raw Hulk 3 labeled a VG- restored sell for less than a 2.5 blue label in the same auction yesterday. Although I do agree with what was said above me - this phenomenon is more likely to happen with GA since people are more willing to accept resto that collect GA than SA. 
 

[Tom789]

On 8/21/2023 at 9:12 PM, lou_fine said:

Not exactly sure what you are asking here because I believe you answered your own question as both copies had the exact same equivalent grade, but the one with better eye appeal sold for more slighly more money?  

Do you really expect bidders to bid more for an equivalent graded copy that does not present as nicely from a strict visual point of view?  

Now, if it was a significantly lower graded or restored raw copy that sold for significantly more money than a higher graded CGC Universal copy of the exact same book, then I would find that to be more surprising.  Then again, we've seen this scenario before and certainly on more than just one occasion.    

Because the raw copy may have hidden flaws or flaws not apparent in the images, it may be tougher to resell raw, and if the buyer wants to get it graded there are fees, postage and the risk of a lower grade.

[kimik]

Batman and Tec SA and BA (and it looks like raw CA as well) prices are still climbing. Those titles never saw the big spike but have slowly an steadily kept running up.

[GreatCaesarsGhost]

The current CC auction reveals that golden age Timelys have regained their momentum 

[lou_fine]

On 8/22/2023 at 4:38 PM, Tom789 said:

Because the raw copy may have hidden flaws or flaws not apparent in the images, it may be tougher to resell raw, and if the buyer wants to get it graded there are fees, postage and the risk of a lower grade.

Likewise, the slabbed copy might also have hiden flaws not apparent in the images of the slab and the raw copy might have the hope of a higher grade.  

Will agree with you though with regards to the grading fees involved and the tougher to resell factor.  

[BlowUpTheMoon]

[Microchip]

On 8/25/2023 at 1:12 PM, BlowUpTheMoon said:

Thats just crazy!

I didn't see that coming at all.   

[Microchip]

Over on the Clink, this one is simmering along nicely.

[lou_fine]

On 8/24/2023 at 8:12 PM, BlowUpTheMoon said:

 

On 8/24/2023 at 9:54 PM, Microchip said:

Thats just crazy!

I didn't see that coming at all.   

Totally agree with you as I thought this copy here would have taken a bigger hit on its way back down, especially considering how much "relatively common" key BA books like this one here has fallen in the past year combined with the bad off-centered QP on this particular copy here.    

Although a drop of some 40% from last year, but still a relatively strong price considering the marketplace we are currently in for BA books like this one here, as compared to the crazed crypto like marketplace that we had last year.  

Edited August 25, 2023 by lou_fine

[Microchip]

On 8/25/2023 at 3:00 PM, lou_fine said:

 

Totally agree with you as I thought this copy here would have taken a bigger hit on its way back down, especially considering how much "relatively common" key BA books like this one here has fallen in the past year combined with the bad off-centered QP on this particular copy here.    

I was expecting in the $20-25k range, and considered that a good result in the current climate.   Without looking, I'm sure the census is low in this grade, so the QP might be 'take what you can get'.    But with Disney is dismantling the MCU love movie by movie, I'm really surprised this result.    Whats the call, collectors over investors buying, or a duel of dealers?

[lou_fine]

On 8/24/2023 at 10:04 PM, Microchip said:

I was expecting in the $20-25k range, and considered that a good result in the current climate.   Without looking, I'm sure the census is low in this grade, so the QP might be 'take what you can get'.    But with Disney is dismantling the MCU love movie by movie, I'm really surprised this result.    Whats the call, collectors over investors buying, or a duel of dealers?

Now, now, now...........if you are expecting a drop of some 80% from last year, you must think this is one of those former no profit high flying Nasdaq speculative stocks from 2021 which were so red hot and popular with the speculators back in the Covid time period.  

This is the first appearance of Luke Cage after all, with a tough black cover to boot, so a drop from the $102K price point of last year to the $64K price point this year is already a sizeable drop for this book here.    

[Microchip]

On 8/25/2023 at 3:13 PM, lou_fine said:

This is the first appearance of Luke Cage after all, with a tough black cover to boot, so a drop from the $102K price point of last year to the $64K price point this year is already a sizeable drop for this book here.    

2021-2022 is still the bench mark everyone is using.  $64k is good buying then, albeit several levels above my own tap out points 

The buyer has to be pleased all things considered.

[Dark Knight]

For $64k, gimme an AF 15 any day

[lou_fine]

On 8/24/2023 at 10:50 PM, Dark Knight said:

For $64k, gimme an AF 15 any day

Ask and ye shall receive, although suffering from a rather bad case of expanding Marvel chipping:      

[Microchip]

On 8/25/2023 at 4:12 PM, lou_fine said:

Ask and ye shall receive, although suffering from a rather bad case of expanding Marvel chipping:      

It actually looks like Spidey is saving Joe public from the Marvel chipping.   Do I hear $65k...