Are prices still climbing or have they eased up a bit??? 43 43

[Ryan.]

On 11/6/2023 at 10:42 AM, DC# said:

My default assumption, which could be incorrect, is that by virtue of being on a CGC board your interest in comics has been more than just reading/collecting raw books

The paradox of these boards is that it's full of people that get super jazzed at the thought of the hobby dying.

[bc]

On 11/6/2023 at 6:18 PM, Ryan. said:

The paradox of these boards is that it's full of people that get super jazzed at the thought of the hobby dying.

+1

-bc

[rlextherobot]

On 11/6/2023 at 3:18 PM, Ryan. said:

The paradox of these boards is that it's full of people that get super jazzed at the thought of the hobby dying.

Maybe out of a deep seated self-loathing rooted in the obsessive nature of collecting, and a desire to be free from it? 

[bc]

On 11/6/2023 at 6:48 PM, rlextherobot said:

Maybe out of a deep seated self-loathing rooted in the obsessive nature of collecting, and a desire to be free from it? 

-bc

[MyNameIsLegion]

On 11/6/2023 at 9:42 AM, DC# said:

My following comments are sincere and are not intended to be snarky (so easy to misinterpret intent)

You made a very cogent argument and seem pretty locked on your POV - so why are you here on these boards?    Have you cashed out?   Are you still an active hobby participant and if so why?    My default assumption, which could be incorrect, is that by virtue of being on a CGC board your interest in comics has been more than just reading/collecting raw books. 

In parallel - I have very high nostalgia for vintage Kenner Star Wars figures (still have all my childhood figures and vehicles) and have been tempted to buy some high quality Mint On Card figures in the past few years.  I have resisted because I worry that group of collectors is very narrow and almost no one outside of my generation has any connection to those toys.    When I observe collectors/buyers on YT etc - they all seem to be in a very small demo that look like me (not to mention that each figure was produced in the millions and there is no good census/pop count to tell you how many exist even as graded examples).     I have said before on one of these threads - I am a bit more encouraged by the demo spread I see at comic conventions (national and local).   Still a lot of "me" but there are a significant number of young people - and also seeing a lot more women than I saw decades ago.    

 

On 11/6/2023 at 5:48 PM, rlextherobot said:

Maybe out of a deep seated self-loathing rooted in the obsessive nature of collecting, and a desire to be free from it? 

but seriously, yeah, reading most of the responses from many of you that appear to also be Gen-Xers we see things as they are, maybe a little on the glass empty side, but far closer to the truth of the matter. I'm not saying I'm gleeful or happy about it.  We sell books at a few shows a year, and set up at OAF-Con, we used to do Comicpalooza when we had 30-40K books in our inventory. We've paired that down considerably in the last 10 years, and we have just finished a year of consignments with MCS that I've been pretty happy with, to move non-key books and we sold off a lot of filler to MCS that was taking up space that we were just never going to turn fast enough at a local show to make it worth hauling and storing. I've started the somewhat painful process of editing down my personal collection which is not terribly large at all, as I stopped actively buying comics 20+ years ago for myself and only collect original art. At the same time, in recent years I've processed by parents and grandparents "estates". That experience has really opened my eyes to how much of what we hold onto is of little to no value($) or utility to anyone else, and a bit of an emotional boat anchor to ourselves and family. don't be blinded by nostalgia. guilt, or the past. 

As a cohort, Gen-Xers are the very last of a kind, non-digital natives, and it is difficult to live in both worlds with objectivity. Everyone debates:  "this generation is different, or this is a cycle, we all end up in the same place at a certain age, yadda yadda".  No. This different. Millennials and Gen-Z are different animals from us and our parents. the old rules and assumptions do not apply. I don't need all these comics, records, DVD's, CDs, books, photos, that take up 75% of the space in my house that is non-furniture or kitchen appliances. It can all be digitized and consumed in a handful of devices not much bigger than a deck of cards. THIS IS UNPRECEDENTED in human history as generations transition through time. If I come to the uncomfortable truth that I don't need all this "stuff" (queue up the George Carlin routine on "stuff") well you can be damn sure the younger generations don't want it. they might like a few samples here and there as novel decorations, but they're not going to fill their shelves and closets and garage with it. They simply can't afford to. 

thanks for suffering my rambling doom-speech comrades! 

Edited November 7, 2023 by MyNameIsLegion

[blazingbob]

I wish people would sometimes take the emotional "Comics" out of the equation and think of them as a commodity that money can be made off.  

There will always be the "yard sale mentality",  antique collector out there.  

 

[MyNameIsLegion]

On 11/7/2023 at 7:49 AM, blazingbob said:

I wish people would sometimes take the emotional "Comics" out of the equation and think of them as a commodity that money can be made off.  

There will always be the "yard sale mentality",  antique collector out there.  

 

I'm not sure how to interpret this comment.  It's because comics, via CGC have been so thoroughly commoditized new and existing collectors have been priced out to a large extent, while the hobby, and I do say hobby, we forget the emotional appeal of the comic was what originally assigned value to the eventual commodity you speak of is contracting rapidly in terms of creating new comics, new stores for comics, new readers, new future collectors.  That's not sustainable in the long term. Sure, Bob makes Money, and if that's all you care about it, that's fine, but at some point you won't make as much, and you won't have a business to pass on to anyone, but hopefully you banked enough on the way down.  But for many of your customers, many of the books you sold to them will not be worth as much, and they will get sold at a yard sale if they even make it that far. You will argue this point vehemently of course, but do you actually believe it to be true? 

[1Cool]

On 11/6/2023 at 6:18 PM, Ryan. said:

The paradox of these boards is that it's full of people that get super jazzed at the thought of the hobby dying.

I don't know of anyone who is jazzed about a possible negative outcome but saying everything is hunky dory when things don't look good is just lying to others and possibly yourself.  I've had no luck getting a booth at local cons over the last 5 - 6 years and now I get offers to set up all over the place. Take that for what it is.

Nobody gripes when people talk about how great the comic market is but when things don't look that rosy then some people don't like the discussions.  I'd rather we keep it real in an often fake world.

Edited November 7, 2023 by 1Cool

[VintageComics]

On 11/7/2023 at 8:38 AM, MyNameIsLegion said:

but seriously, yeah, reading most of the responses from many of you that appear to also be Gen-Xers we see things as they are, maybe a little on the glass empty side, but far closer to the truth of the matter.

I'm a Gen X'r born in 1970 and I would NEVER purport to see the truth better than any another generation. 

If anything, I can admit I was WRONG. 

I just don't know at this point when the light will fade, but this is FAR too convenient a time to build a case that the sky is falling is during the single greatest asset correction in world history with record inflation, record energy prices, record number of wars yada, yada, yada. This is quite literally an unprecedented time in modern history and you can't draw hard and fast rules around this unprecedented time. 

That's about as subjective as you can get (and I am not trying to sound condescending). 

On 11/7/2023 at 9:48 AM, 1Cool said:

Nobody gripes when people talk about how great the comic market is

Actually, I do and have for years. 

I've for YEARS griped about how when the market gets too hot it's not good for the hobby. The movie bubbles, the asset bubble of 2021 - I spoke out against all of those things and everyone knows I have. 

But MOST won't. They'd rather play the game disingenuously.

Edited November 7, 2023 by VintageComics

[NewWorldOrder]

On 11/7/2023 at 7:22 AM, VintageComics said:

I'm a Gen X'r born in 1970 and I would NEVER purport to see the truth better than any another generation. 

If anything, I can admit I was WRONG. 

I just don't know at this point when the light will fade, but this is FAR too convenient a time to build a case that the sky is falling is during the single greatest asset correction in world history with record inflation, record energy prices, record number of wars yada, yada, yada. This is quite literally an unprecedented time in modern history and you can't draw hard and fast rules around this unprecedented time. 

That's about as subjective as you can get (and I am not trying to sound condescending). 

Actually, I do and have for years. 

I've for YEARS griped about how when the market gets too hot it's not good for the hobby. The movie bubbles, the asset bubble of 2021 - I spoke out against all of those things and everyone knows I have. 

But MOST won't. They'd rather play the game disingenuously.

On today's date it has never been easier to make FREE money in America or any capitalistic society.

The problem is most people are too lazy to get off the couch and take it.

Unless that person has a real life handicap there is no excuse to be broke in a industrial society.

Most people make bad decisions, and blame others or society for their shortcomings in life.

You have a lot of kids graduating from college with worthless degrees, while kids that went to trade school are earning more than doctors because of the shortage of real trades work.  So many people who I graduated High School with would have been far better to become a plumber, electrician, or auto mechanics than spend $40-100k to get a English degree that is just worthless on its own.  Then take customer service jobs with that college degree. Then they work alongside others with no college degrees, and they are both making the same annual salary, except they still owes their student loans.

Usually people that work hard, but smart will do well over the long haul.  They are quick to bounce back when things don't go their way.

With the comic hobby, all that COVID showed was the fly-by-nighters came in and left.  The real comic book dealers/collectors are still here.

Roy just look at me.....My English writing skills are horrendous (maybe I should have added getting an English minor at college), and if it wasn't for spellcheck I would probably be homeless, and even I'm doing okay!  

Edited November 7, 2023 by NewWorldOrder

[NewWorldOrder]

On 11/7/2023 at 6:27 AM, MyNameIsLegion said:

I'm not sure how to interpret this comment.  It's because comics, via CGC have been so thoroughly commoditized new and existing collectors have been priced out to a large extent, while the hobby, and I do say hobby, we forget the emotional appeal of the comic was what originally assigned value to the eventual commodity you speak of is contracting rapidly in terms of creating new comics, new stores for comics, new readers, new future collectors.  That's not sustainable in the long term. Sure, Bob makes Money, and if that's all you care about it, that's fine, but at some point you won't make as much, and you won't have a business to pass on to anyone, but hopefully you banked enough on the way down.  But for many of your customers, many of the books you sold to them will not be worth as much, and they will get sold at a yard sale if they even make it that far. You will argue this point vehemently of course, but do you actually believe it to be true? 

I really don't understand when collectors say what I highlighted above.

Define "priced out?"  That is such a generic statement that for me makes no sense.

Most collectors are not priced out of buying most comic books.

What books specifically are people priced out on?  What's annual collectors budget?

Or is it more the buyer is just upset they can't afford the comic in the grade they truly want.

Example.  They want a HULK #181 in CGC 9.4, but only have the money for a CGC 6.0.

The way I see the hobby right now it seems to be a great time for collectors to price themselves into the book they want.  I think the COVID gripes from collectors were for sure justified, but now I dont see what the problem is for most comic books buyers to not dive in and get what they want.

I also think what Bob @blazingbob was referring to was when people try to sell books or trade with dealers they sometimes think their "emotional" attachment to the books should garner a higher premium .  Which I have seen many times, and my rebuttal to them is your personal attachment to these books doesn't help me re-sell them faster!  So yes when you sell your comic books they are just a commodity, that is correct.

Edited November 7, 2023 by NewWorldOrder

[1Cool]

On 11/7/2023 at 2:09 PM, NewWorldOrder said:

I really don't understand when collectors say what I highlighted above.

Define "priced out?"  That is such a generic statement that for me makes no sense.

Most collectors are not priced out of buying most comic books.

What books specifically are people priced out on?  What's annual collectors budget?

Or is it more the buyer is just upset they can't afford the comic in the grade they truly want.

Example.  They want a HULK #181 in CGC 9.4, but only have the money for a CGC 6.0.

The way I see the hobby right now it seems to be a great time for collectors to price themselves into the book they want.  I think the COVID gripes from collectors were for sure justified, but now I dont see what the problem is for most comic books buyers to not dive in and get what they want.

I also think what Bob @blazingbob was referring to was when people try to sell books or trade with dealers they sometimes think their "emotional" attachment to the books should garner a higher premium .  Which I have seen many times, and my rebuttal to them is your personal attachment to these books doesn't help me re-sell them faster!  So yes when you sell your comic books they are just a commodity, that is correct.

But don't comics have no value other than an emotional attachment (especially if you take away reading the book)?  I hope people continue to have an emotional attachment to their funny books because things get tricky very fast if people start asking why a small book is worth thousands of dollars just because it includes the 1st time an artist drew a character.  

[NewWorldOrder]

On 11/7/2023 at 11:45 AM, 1Cool said:

But don't comics have no value other than an emotional attachment (especially if you take away reading the book)?  I hope people continue to have an emotional attachment to their funny books because things get tricky very fast if people start asking why a small book is worth thousands of dollars just because it includes the 1st time an artist drew a character.  

Sure, but again what does that have to do with selling your books to a dealer or a reseller? I had a guy a couple months back want to sell me his X-Men 94-143 run.  Books were in heavily read condition, and his asking price was 3 times higher then what I could re-sell them for.    He said these comics were his 7/11 store bought comics from when he was a kid so if he sells them he wants more.  Needless to say I quickly passed on the run and left feeling that he wasted my time. 

I have some emotional attachment to my personal collection, but not to my regular inventory.  Just remember we are all just curators of our comics till we die.  Once I realized that in my late 20's I just stopped being so attached to anything, especially since most comics are not rare and are easily replaced.  I think its very normal to have some kind of emotional attachment to your personal comics, but if you have to sell them you cant expect me to share in that emotional attachment and pay you more money because of it.

Edited November 7, 2023 by NewWorldOrder

[1Cool]

On 11/7/2023 at 3:01 PM, NewWorldOrder said:

Sure, but again what does that have to do with selling your books to a dealer or a reseller? I had a guy a couple months back want to sell me his X-Men 94-143 run.  Books were in heavily read condition, and his asking price was probably 3 times high then what I could re-sell the comics for.    He said these comics were his 7/11 store bought comics from when he was a kid so if he sells them he wants more.  Needless to say I quickly passed on the run and left feeling that he wasted my time. 

I have some emotional attachment to my personal collection, but not to my regular inventory.  Just remember we are all just curators of our comics till we are dead.  Once I realized that in my late 20's I just stopped being so attached to anything, especially since most comics are not rare and are easily replaced.  I think its very normal to have some kind of emotional attachment to your personal comics, but if you have to sell you cant expect me to share in that emotional attachment and pay you more money because of it.

Fair point but I can't have it both ways.  I lean heavily into the emotional attachment of buyers in terms of getting them to buy my books (heck my booth motto is Buy Back Your Childhood) so I can't expect the same people to not have an attachment when it comes time to sell their books.  That is why I love buying books from dealers (or at least people selling at cons) since my experience buying from collectors has been terrible.  They typically want top dollar for everything and they get insulted when I give them a fair offer for their books. 

I don't expect dealers to pay more than they want but it seems strange to say books should be seen as a commodity when an emotional attachment gives them most of their value.

[dikran]

On 11/7/2023 at 3:01 PM, NewWorldOrder said:

Sure, but again what does that have to do with selling your books to a dealer or a reseller? I had a guy a couple months back want to sell me his X-Men 94-143 run.  Books were in heavily read condition, and his asking price was 3 times higher then what I could re-sell them for.    He said these comics were his 7/11 store bought comics from when he was a kid so if he sells them he wants more.  Needless to say I quickly passed on the run and left feeling that he wasted my time. 

I have some emotional attachment to my personal collection, but not to my regular inventory.  Just remember we are all just curators of our comics till we die.  Once I realized that in my late 20's I just stopped being so attached to anything, especially since most comics are not rare and are easily replaced.  I think its very normal to have some kind of emotional attachment to your personal comics, but if you have to sell them you cant expect me to share in that emotional attachment and pay you more money because of it.

I think it's more that the entire comic industry is based on emotion, not just individuals and their own books but the characters and creators that evoke those emotions. Collectors get emotional when they get the key they've wanted forever, run fillers when they finish a series, speculators when they flip for a profit, investors when a book increases over time... Without that emotion, the hobby crumbles.

Edited November 7, 2023 by dikran
typo

[1Cool]

By the way - Roy only has 352 post until he hits 100,000 posts!  Will he hit this milestone this week??

[NewWorldOrder]

On 11/7/2023 at 12:09 PM, dikran said:

I think it's more that the entire comic industry is based on emotion, not just individuals and their own books but the characters and creators that evoke those emotions. Collectors get emotional when they get the key they've wanted forever, run fillers when they finish a series, speculators when they flip for a profit, investors when a book increases over time... Without that emotion, the hobby crumbles.

You want to see emotional ask me about Disney and the state of the MCU!

Edited November 7, 2023 by NewWorldOrder

[MAR1979]

On 11/7/2023 at 3:14 PM, 1Cool said:

By the way - Roy only has 352 post until he hits 100,000 posts!  Will he hit this milestone this week??

Or another multi-week banning? Whats the over/under?

[1Cool]

On 11/7/2023 at 4:11 PM, MAR1979 said:

Or another multi-week banning? Whats the over/under?

[Ryan.]

On 11/7/2023 at 2:00 PM, NewWorldOrder said:

get a English degree that is just worthless on its own