Exposing FRAUD And DECEPTION - A Must Watch! 18 18

[jimjum12]

On 8/30/2021 at 1:44 AM, kav said:

Wow they really went over the top with that one!!!  I guess I'm supposed to be scared?  Not sure.

I never cared for Yellow Journalism .... for a while that nasty steaming pile of dung had been laid to rest... or so it seemed. 

GOD BLESS...

-jimbo(a friend of jesus)

[MasterChief]

On 8/29/2021 at 11:45 PM, Gaard said:

On 8/29/2021 at 10:56 PM, MasterChief said:

$1.2 million to avoid protracted litigation

Does that mean they paid over a million bucks so the FTC would stop wasting their time?

As presented in the Annual Report of the Federal Trade Commission for the Fiscal Year Ended September 30, 1989:

"Numismatic Certification Institute, and its principals, Steve Ivy and James Halperin, agreed to settle charges that its representations and failures to disclose information misled consumers as to the value of coins certified by the company. An affiliate, Heritage Capital Corporation, also agreed to settle charges that it provided substantial assistance to a coin retailer, Certified Rare Coin Galleries (CRCG), knowing that CRCG was misrepresenting the security and profit potential of its coins to investors. Under the settlement, defendants agreed to a permanent injunction, and Heritage and NCI agreed to contribute $1.2 million into a consumer redress plan for CRCG's customers."

https://www.ftc.gov/sites/default/files/documents/reports_annual/annual-report-1989/ar1989_0.pdf

**************

Here's an article from the Los Angeles Times reporting on the matter:

FTC Issues Rule Against Overgrading
By Don Alpert
AUG. 10, 1989 12 AM PT

By and large, it’s grading and rarity that determine the value of a coin. Rarity is easy enough to establish. Grading is often a matter of opinion.

It’s for this reason that grading services came into being. Their purpose is to give an impartial rating to a coin, which virtually establishes a particular price.

But what happens if the grading service misrepresents the grade of a coin, thereby increasing its value?

That’s the situation described by Bill McAllister of the Washington Post in regard to a recent decision by the Federal Trade Commission. The commission determined that overgrading coins was a “deceptive and unfair act” prohibited by the 1914 law that created the FTC.

Charged with this practice were two Texas-based corporations, Heritage Capital Corp. and Numismatic Certification Institute. Also named in the action were Steve Ivy and James Halperin, prominent numismatic figures. A consent order was signed agreeing to establish a $1.2-million fund for collectors who purchase the NCI-graded coins from Coin Galleries Inc. of Miami.

Other collectors will benefit from this action, FTC lawyers say, because those involved are prohibited from “knowingly and substantially assisting any third party in misrepresenting” any information about coin purchases and are barred from issuing any grading certificates “likely to mislead consumers.”

Collectors should also benefit by the positive reinforcement this should render to the other grading services. While the process has been tainted, the leading services -- Professional Coin Grading Service, National Guaranty Corp. and the American Numismatic Assn. -- are unscathed. But this should serve as a warning to the entire industry, even though those involved with the FTC settlement do not admit any of the allegations.

The fact is, overgraded coins bring inflated prices. And it’s wrong, whether it’s done deliberately or inadvertently. It’s too bad that the government had to step in, but perhaps it’s necessary when self-regulation doesn’t work.

https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm-1989-08-10-vw-88-story.html

[GreatCaesarsGhost]

On 8/30/2021 at 12:55 PM, MasterChief said:

As presented in the Annual Report of the Federal Trade Commission for the Fiscal Year Ended September 30, 1989:

"Numismatic Certification Institute, and its principals, Steve Ivy and James Halperin, agreed to settle charges that its representations and failures to disclose information misled consumers as to the value of coins certified by the company. An affiliate, Heritage Capital Corporation, also agreed to settle charges that it provided substantial assistance to a coin retailer, Certified Rare Coin Galleries (CRCG), knowing that CRCG was misrepresenting the security and profit potential of its coins to investors. Under the settlement, defendants agreed to a permanent injunction, and Heritage and NCI agreed to contribute $1.2 million into a consumer redress plan for CRCG's customers."

https://www.ftc.gov/sites/default/files/documents/reports_annual/annual-report-1989/ar1989_0.pdf

**************

Here's an article from the Los Angeles Times reporting on the matter:

FTC Issues Rule Against Overgrading
By Don Alpert
AUG. 10, 1989 12 AM PT

By and large, it’s grading and rarity that determine the value of a coin. Rarity is easy enough to establish. Grading is often a matter of opinion.

It’s for this reason that grading services came into being. Their purpose is to give an impartial rating to a coin, which virtually establishes a particular price.

But what happens if the grading service misrepresents the grade of a coin, thereby increasing its value?

That’s the situation described by Bill McAllister of the Washington Post in regard to a recent decision by the Federal Trade Commission. The commission determined that overgrading coins was a “deceptive and unfair act” prohibited by the 1914 law that created the FTC.

Charged with this practice were two Texas-based corporations, Heritage Capital Corp. and Numismatic Certification Institute. Also named in the action were Steve Ivy and James Halperin, prominent numismatic figures. A consent order was signed agreeing to establish a $1.2-million fund for collectors who purchase the NCI-graded coins from Coin Galleries Inc. of Miami.

Other collectors will benefit from this action, FTC lawyers say, because those involved are prohibited from “knowingly and substantially assisting any third party in misrepresenting” any information about coin purchases and are barred from issuing any grading certificates “likely to mislead consumers.”

Collectors should also benefit by the positive reinforcement this should render to the other grading services. While the process has been tainted, the leading services -- Professional Coin Grading Service, National Guaranty Corp. and the American Numismatic Assn. -- are unscathed. But this should serve as a warning to the entire industry, even though those involved with the FTC settlement do not admit any of the allegations.

The fact is, overgraded coins bring inflated prices. And it’s wrong, whether it’s done deliberately or inadvertently. It’s too bad that the government had to step in, but perhaps it’s necessary when self-regulation doesn’t work.

https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm-1989-08-10-vw-88-story.html

Sounds like the million dollar payment was not made to stop the FTC from wasting their time. Sounds like it was made to stop the blood flow

Edited August 30, 2021 by GreatCaesarsGhost

[wombat]

Its always an easy out to say you paid a fine/settlement because it was cheaper than continuing the legal battle. And of course sometimes it might be true. But to point to that as some kind of argument you are not guilty is just not very believable. 

[MasterChief]

On 8/30/2021 at 7:59 AM, GreatCaesarsGhost said:

Sounds like the million dollar payment was not made to stop the FTC from wasting their time. Sounds like it was made to stop the blood flow

[DustinL]

If I buy something from myself and pay a record price is my item really worth what I paid?

[MatterEaterLad]

On 8/30/2021 at 1:42 PM, DustinL said:

If I buy something from myself and pay a record price is my item really worth what I paid?

Not unless you work for Heritage. Then you can send out press releases trumpeting your incredible purchase, without mentioning you bought it from yourself. 

 

[Buzzetta]

On 8/30/2021 at 1:20 AM, COI said:

A genuine question here, and please just take the question at face value: who is the victim of this "alternative asset class" creation if, going by the video and the substack, this is a group of wealthy guys getting richer off of another group of wealthy guys who no one has heard from and who, it is somehow assumed, are being bamboozled, despite the fact that this information was already out there for the gathering? Either there is a group - let's call the the "underbidders" - who are being "manipulated" into bidding high prices for expensive games, or this is all a smokescreen, the sales are fake, in which case....no one is being taken, financially, by this slabbed theater. 

Why is this question important? Because I can point to clear incentives to act unethically on the content creation side of "gaming journalism" who think the ends justify the means, and going after this "alternate asset class" creation is akin to exposing the real estate bubble pre-2008, where the victims were clear. 

So for those of you who find the video compelling, where are the bodies?

 

Great question but might be an alternative to the answer you seek.  Every top sale impacts all lower tiers.   So, to be honest, I am very interested in the outcome to the auction for Amazing Fantasy 15 in a blue label 9.6. on of all places, Heritage.   The current bid with the buyer's premium is at $2,880,000 and that is before tax.   There are nine days remaining before the live auction and quite a few believe this is going to surpass the Action 1 in a 9.0 sale.  

Why am I heavily interested in this?  I cannot afford and will never afford a 9.6.  However, I have a 1.8, 3.5 and a 6.0.   If history holds true, the more that the 9.6 goes for, the more interest there will be in 'affordable' copies of the book.  That means that there is a higher demand for what is more obtainable.  

If the auction of the 9.6 is later revealed to be a sham, then the value of my items may not only decrease but there is a loss of faith in the market in general.   People no longer trust that the item they are buying has the value they believe it does. The value of my items may not only stagnate but decrease in value as the prospective customer base is alienated from participating in future purchases. 

Now again, to take your position, could this piece of investigative journalism also be a sham?  Absolutely.   The intent there is to then destabilize what is then a legitimate market in an effort to eliminate growth or create a declination of value for a multitude of reasons.  Again, such actions turn off the customer base which hesitates at participating in future purchases. 

The whole thing stinks no matter you believe the video or not to be honest. 

Edited August 30, 2021 by Buzzetta

[Poekaymon]

On 8/30/2021 at 7:36 PM, Buzzetta said:

I have a 1.8, 3.5 and a 6.0.   

Hoarder.

[WolverineX]

On 8/30/2021 at 6:59 PM, MatterEaterLad said:

Not unless you work for Heritage. Then you can send out press releases trumpeting your incredible purchase, without mentioning you bought it from yourself. 

 

[Buzzetta]

On 8/30/2021 at 7:41 PM, Poekaymon said:

Hoarder.

Edited August 30, 2021 by Buzzetta

[jimjum12]

On 8/30/2021 at 7:36 PM, Buzzetta said:

create a declination of value for a multitude of reasons.

This is what I keep going back to. GOD BLESS...

-jimbo(a friend of jesus)

[jimjum12]

This has been a good thread.... it seems to me the market is still healthy ... from the outside looking in. As many people as love the Video hobby, I hope the ship will right itself with minimul upheaval ... seeing folks have something to be passionate about is always important to me. GOD BLESS...

-jimbo(a friend of jesus)

[wormboy]

FYI @Buzzetta

 

[kav]

On 8/30/2021 at 7:36 PM, wormboy said:

FYI @Buzzetta

 

Buzz after renovation:

Edited August 31, 2021 by kav

[Buzzetta]

What an eye sore. 

[kav]

On 8/30/2021 at 7:41 PM, Buzzetta said:

What an eye sore. 

  

[kav]

On 8/30/2021 at 7:41 PM, Buzzetta said:

What an eye sore. 

Dont think your homeowners assn would approve that baby.

[WolverineX]

On 8/30/2021 at 7:36 PM, Buzzetta said:

Great question but might be an alternative to the answer you seek.  Every top sale impacts all lower tiers.   So, to be honest, I am very interested in the outcome to the auction for Amazing Fantasy 15 in a blue label 9.6. on of all places, Heritage.   The current bid with the buyer's premium is at $2,880,000 and that is before tax.   There are nine days remaining before the live auction and quite a few believe this is going to surpass the Action 1 in a 9.0 sale.  

Why am I heavily interested in this?  I cannot afford and will never afford a 9.6.  However, I have a 1.8, 3.5 and a 6.0.   If history holds true, the more that the 9.6 goes for, the more interest there will be in 'affordable' copies of the book.  That means that there is a higher demand for what is more obtainable.  

If the auction of the 9.6 is later revealed to be a sham, then the value of my items may not only decrease but there is a loss of faith in the market in general.   People no longer trust that the item they are buying has the value they believe it does. The value of my items may not only stagnate but decrease in value as the prospective customer base is alienated from participating in future purchases. 

Now again, to take your position, could this piece of investigative journalism also be a sham?  Absolutely.   The intent there is to then destabilize what is then a legitimate market in an effort to eliminate growth or create a declination of value for a multitude of reasons.  Again, such actions turn off the customer base which hesitates at participating in future purchases. 

The whole thing stinks no matter you believe the video or not to be honest. 

Good thing i only buy DC.

[WolverineX]

On 8/30/2021 at 3:42 PM, DustinL said:

If I buy something from myself and pay a record price is my item really worth what I paid?

Heck no