Exposing FRAUD And DECEPTION - A Must Watch! 18 18

[jaybuck43]

On 9/1/2021 at 8:37 PM, Sweet Lou 14 said:

Thanks for this.  Dating myself some more, but I think of Ms. Pac Man as pretty late in the game ... the packaging design I remember most fondly was the original.  Here's an example that's being offered for $28K on eBay:

Are the Atari boxes with this design more scarce than the silver design that followed?

I'm going purely from childhood memories, but I would think of the original Space Invaders as the "biggest" Atari 2600 game of the era in terms of buzz.  Then I would probably go with a couple of the early Activision games -- I loved those, with Pitfall probably being the one I consider the "best" and most desirable as a collectible.  But of course I don't think for a second that what I like necessarily aligns with the market.  Your point about the supply side is very well taken.

No, the biggest was pac-man. They did 1.5 million in preorders alone and pac man was the highest selling game on the Atari 2600. In fairness, space invaders was the second highest selling game of all time for the 2600. (But almost 2 million units less). 

[Domo Arigato]

I'd like to take another look at the article from Seth (Whack Job) Abramson.  

In it, he keeps making the claim that Bronty's game (originally graded VGA 85+) was cracked out by WATA and re-graded and downgraded to a 9,4 A++ by them in order to somehow "cheat" him

To be fair, I haven't spoken with Bronty about what his actual feelings are on this situation, so I'm just going to move forward with what I know.

First of all......VGA and WATA grade games differently.  It's common knowledge among sealed game collectors familiar with both grading companies that VGA puts a higher emphasis on the seal.  This knowledge is important when people are trying to compare grades from one company to the other.  VGA only gives a single, overall grade and tends to weight more heavily on the wrapper...so to speak.  People have posted their VGA graded games on Facebook with an 85 grade that have a huge crease or a hole punched in the box itself.....but the wrapping on it is still pristine.....like it was hit with a blunt object that damaged the box but not the actual seal.  Abramson keeps implying that 85+ is basically mint and should have been graded higher than it was by WATA.

So....let's take a look at that, keeping in mind the VGA scale is completely different than the comic book type grading scale.

There is VGA 85+ (what they refer to as NM+)......this is what Bronty's game was originally.....but exactly what grades are above that? 

Let's take a look from VGA's own grading scale:

90 (NM+/MINT)

90+ (also NM+/MINT)

95 (MINT)

95+.(also MINT)

100.(GEM MINT)

So, there are FIVE full steps above an 85+ on the VGA scale.

When WATA re-graded Bronty's game, they gave it a 9.4 A++ grade.  WATA grades the box and the seal (wrapper) separately, and gives each it's own grade.  In this instance, the box got a 9.4 grade and the seal (wrapper) got an A++ grade (the best it can receive....remember what I said about VGA putting a higher emphasis on the seal).  So...what grades are above 9.4 on the WATA scale (which is similar to the comics scale, except they don't have a 9.9 grade)?

Let's take a look at that from WATA's own grading scale:

9.6

9.8

10

So, there are only THREE full steps above a 9.4 on the WATA scale.

But......but......so what, Domo..........CONSPIRACY!!!!

Ok.....now lets take a look at some data on crossovers that sealed game collector Jonas McCammon compiled early on in WATA's grading history.  Keeping in mind that the two grading companies grade differently, so you can't say VGA (X) grade equals WATA (X) grade.  Personally, I think WATA's idea of grading the box and the seal separately is a MUCH better idea. 

Now, since Bronty's game was originally a VGA 85+.....I'm just going to concentrate on that chart, which consisted of 203 different games crossed over from a VGA 85+ grade to WATA for grading.  Here were the results of that study:

So.....when crossing over a VGA 85+ grade to a WATA grade......you'll notice that out of 203 games....97 of them crossed over to a 9.4 grade.....and 120 of them crossed over to an A+ seal rating.......and the highest number (53) crossed over to a combined grade of 9.4 A+.

Bronty's VGA 85+ game crossed over to a 9.4 A++ grade.  That doesn't seem like much of a conspiracy to me.

 

Edited September 2, 2021 by Domo Arigato

[Domo Arigato]

On 9/1/2021 at 7:37 PM, Sweet Lou 14 said:

Thanks for this.  Dating myself some more, but I think of Ms. Pac Man as pretty late in the game ... the packaging design I remember most fondly was the original.  Here's an example that's being offered for $28K on eBay:

Are the Atari boxes with this design more scarce than the silver design that followed?

That's an early production copy and is definitely more rare. 

However, that guy appears to be dreaming a bit on that $28k price.....which is why I'm glad Heritage maintains an easily accessible history of all of their sales.  The highest sale Heritage has recorded for that exact game was $4,560 for a higher graded 9.0 copy.  Granted....that sale was back in April, so this guy may be able to get more than that for his 8.0 now......but $28k is aggressive.

EDIT:  Wait a second....I just checked eBay and it looks like he now his it priced at $79,995.95 

Here are all 6 copies Heritage has previously sold:

 

Edited September 2, 2021 by Domo Arigato

[Bronty]

🤣 

[Bronty]

2

[Bronty]

3

[Bronty]

Jared Kushner and I plotting to take down America!  

Edited September 2, 2021 by Bronty

[Bronty]

2

[Bronty]

https://www.cjr.org/special_report/seth-abramson-twitter.php

[Domo Arigato]

On 9/1/2021 at 9:19 PM, Bronty said:

Jared Kushner and I plotting to take down America!  What a tool this guy is. 

I don't care what kind of education or qualifications Jobst and Abramson have.

The world has seen a lot of smart psychopaths throughout history that can do advanced calculus and bark at the moon at the same time.

I just can't believe these "National Enquirers of the internet" have managed to get so much attention.....other than there are a lot of people out there that just want to believe everything they read/hear.

 

Edited September 2, 2021 by Domo Arigato

[Domo Arigato]

On 9/1/2021 at 7:37 PM, Sweet Lou 14 said:

Thanks for this.  Dating myself some more, but I think of Ms. Pac Man as pretty late in the game ... the packaging design I remember most fondly was the original. 

I also wanted to point out something in that picture I posted of all the Ms. Pac Man sales.  The $10,200 sale in September of 2020 was an anomaly.  That's a later production copy and was probably bid up by noob speculators battling over it because of the 9.8 A++ grade.  You'll notice that future sales of that game in 9.8 A++ didn't get bid up anywhere near as high.

The 9.2 A+ copy that sold for $7,800 made more sense.  It's a first production copy and is much more rare, even in the lower grade.  Heritage has only sold two of those......the other one being a 5.0 B+ copy that went for $600 back in January.

 

[Domo Arigato]

On 8/28/2021 at 1:23 PM, comicwiz said:

I consider myself having a steeped understanding of grading companies. 

 

On 8/28/2021 at 1:23 PM, comicwiz said:

There is nothing WATA did that VGA hadn't already been doing competently, to justify their meteoric rise. Zip. Zilch. Nada.

Really?

Let's see if we can come up with just one reason why WATA might have quickly gained market share from VGA...........but let's do it by having everyone play a little game.

The game is called "Let's pretend to submit a game for grading".

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

First of all.....I'd like everyone to visit WATA's website.....and then go through their process of submitting a game.  You don't need to log on, and you're not actually going to submit a game....just go through the motions to enter it into your Queue....which can easily be deleted at the bottom of the screen once you're done. 

1. You start by going to WATA's home page here and then clicking on "Submit a Game" towards the top of the screen.
2. On the next page, you'll select a system/platform from the drop down menu.....then select your game by starting to type it's name in the box until a drop down menu appears with your choices that you can click on.....then click on "This is my Game" at the bottom right.
3. On the second screen, you pick whether your game is sealed, complete in box, or loose cart.....then click a declared value range....then click "Continue" at the bottom right.
4. On the final screen, you click on the type of holder you want (most choose 3D).....then which service level you want.....and finally any additional services you want, like light cleaning......then click on "Add to Queue" at the bottom right.  You'll be able to see your game in the "Queue" at the bottom of the screen.

That's it.  You're done and can check out (if you were logged in) and mail your game.  Practice it a couple of times and see how fast you can enter a game for grading.  I haven't submitted a ton of games and just timed myself doing it.......it took me just over 27 seconds and all the fees are calculated for you.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Now I'd like everyone to visit VGA's website and do the same thing.  

I dare you.

First, you'll want to make sure your computer is compatible with a website that looks like it was designed in the 90's.

The VGA online submission process is brand new, and should be a little bit easier, but we're going to ignore that since it wouldn't be relevant to why WATA has quickly gained market share from them so far.  Prior to their brand new online submission process, you had to do EVERYTHING MANUALLY with them, so that's what we're going to explore.  Let's begin.

1. You start by going to VGA's home page here and then hovering your mouse over "Submission Center" at the top and click on "Pricing and Tier Codes" in the drop down menu.
2. On the next page, you'll need to pick out the Tier Code and associated pricing for the game you want to submit.  You'll need to measure your game if it's not a standard size game.  Then you'll need to decide how fast of a Tier you want to submit under and find the associated Tier code and pricing for your game, since you'll need these later when manually filling out your forms.  You can also find pricing for additional services here...like cleaning.
3. Then you'll want to again hover your mouse over "Submission Center" at the top and click on "Forms" in the drop down menu.
4. On the next page, you'll go to the bottom and click on "Submission Forum (complete with directions)" which will get you to this page.
5. You can now view the 10 pages containing all of the submission forms you'll need to fill out along with all of their instructions.  Be sure to scroll all the way to the bottom to make sure you see all the forms that need to be filled in.  You can actually type your information into these pages, because you'll need to print them out to mail in with your game.  Unfortunately, you'll have to use these instructions to also figure all the costs out and add them in manually (like return shipping and insurance) and then manually figure out the totals. Go ahead and go through the process of entering the information as if your were submitting a game to see how their process is.

I triple dog dare you.

I do recommend people try the WATA submission form...as it's very easy and can literally takes less than a minute.  However, if the VGA stuff is too much of a hassle for you, feel free to cheat and watch the guy in this video from last month go through the process for you.  It will still give you a headache....but it will be a milder one.

 

Edited September 2, 2021 by Domo Arigato

[comicwiz]

On 9/1/2021 at 8:51 PM, Domo Arigato said:

I'd like to take another look at the article from Seth (Whack Job) Abramson.  

In it, he keeps making the claim that Bronty's game (originally graded VGA 85+) was cracked out by WATA and re-graded and downgraded to a 9,4 A++ by them in order to somehow "cheat" him

To be fair, I haven't spoken with Bronty about what his actual feelings are on this situation, so I'm just going to move forward with what I know.

First of all......VGA and WATA grade games differently.  It's common knowledge among sealed game collectors familiar with both grading companies that VGA puts a higher emphasis on the seal.  This knowledge is important when people are trying to compare grades from one company to the other.  VGA only gives a single, overall grade and tends to weight more heavily on the wrapper...so to speak.  People have posted their VGA graded games on Facebook with an 85 grade that have a huge crease or a hole punched in the box itself.....but the wrapping on it is still pristine.....like it was hit with a blunt object that damaged the box but not the actual seal.  Abramson keeps implying that 85+ is basically mint and should have been graded higher than it was by WATA.

So....let's take a look at that, keeping in mind the VGA scale is completely different than the comic book type grading scale.

There is VGA 85+ (what they refer to as NM+)......this is what Bronty's game was originally.....but exactly what grades are above that? 

Let's take a look from VGA's own grading scale:

90 (NM+/MINT)

90+ (also NM+/MINT)

95 (MINT)

95+.(also MINT)

100.(GEM MINT)

So, there are FIVE full steps above an 85+ on the VGA scale.

When WATA re-graded Bronty's game, they gave it a 9.4 A++ grade.  WATA grades the box and the seal (wrapper) separately, and gives each it's own grade.  In this instance, the box got a 9.4 grade and the seal (wrapper) got an A++ grade (the best it can receive....remember what I said about VGA putting a higher emphasis on the seal).  So...what grades are above 9.4 on the WATA scale (which is similar to the comics scale, except they don't have a 9.9 grade)?

Let's take a look at that from WATA's own grading scale:

9.6

9.8

10

So, there are only THREE full steps above a 9.4 on the WATA scale.

But......but......so what, Domo..........CONSPIRACY!!!!

Ok.....now lets take a look at some data on crossovers that sealed game collector Jonas McCammon compiled early on in WATA's grading history.  Keeping in mind that the two grading companies grade differently, so you can't say VGA (X) grade equals WATA (X) grade.  Personally, I think WATA's idea of grading the box and the seal separately is a MUCH better idea. 

Now, since Bronty's game was originally a VGA 85+.....I'm just going to concentrate on that chart, which consisted of 203 different games crossed over from a VGA 85+ grade to WATA for grading.  Here were the results of that study:

So.....when crossing over a VGA 85+ grade to a WATA grade......you'll notice that out of 203 games....97 of them crossed over to a 9.4 grade.....and 120 of them crossed over to an A+ seal rating.......and the highest number (53) crossed over to a combined grade of 9.4 A+.

Bronty's VGA 85+ game crossed over to a 9.4 A++ grade.  That doesn't seem like much of a conspiracy to me.

 

Your explanation here begins with a predetermined hate for the person, then launches into an opinion laden explanation that misses the mark.

VGA's grading scale for vintage in general (and this is a little more clear to people who collect AFA toys) is stricter on a number of factors. On vintage items in general, the degradation factor has to be taken into account, particularly on a flimsy cellophane wrap that is prone to tearing open when it already begins to show signs of wear, mishandling, or quality control issues straight from the factory. Their strictness, at least from my point of view, and the pov of others who are spending money on a sealed state collectible, is appreciated, because it gives the buyer an early indication to take a close look at what is happening inside the case, and to request as much information as possible from the seller, and to not let the pictures do all the talking. The risk of being damaged during shipping is real, and understanding the characteristic flaws is important in calculating the risk associated to the item and what is being paid.

With that out of the way, on vintage items in general, and in the VGA context, any 95 and up grades are a pipe dream. You may see a population of a handful, but the majority are going to fall within the 85 and 90 tier. The 95 and up exist to make them relevant in the modern scale grading sense. So generally, you are going to see a lot more 80, 85 and 90's as the established benchmark for high grade tiers.

What is essential in any explanation in cross-over grading is who came to the market with a grading methodology first. VGA did, and they did so with a very similar model for AFA (toy grading), and DCA (die-cast grading). You now have a collectible consumer pool in multiple categories where their grading system has been unversalized, and appreciably understood to assist in removing any overinflated opinion of condition within person-to-person trading communities.

So a grader comes along and decides, let's increase the equivalence of a NM+ grade to a higher number, so the perception is people are going to identify with it being a higher grade, because after all, a 9 is higher than an 8. And let's add a few pluses, because Pat Sajak and Vanna White aren't going to charge us more for using them.

What you have is an inherently designed grading system built on the notion of crack and resub. Send your VGA games to WATA, and your 85 games will now come back with a higher number. Ask BSG how their strict grading has been used by sportscard specs to crack/resub - do some reading on the BSG 8.5's that come back PSA 9's (and how much of a value increase that single card, untouched, profits the resubmitter), or a BSG 9 to 10 (although rarer, this has also happened). Anyone that has done cross grading, looking to use the next big payday collectible to increase their profits will see what's happening in cross grading with VGA and WATA, and suddenly the dollar signs start popping-up.

This is Halperin's influence through and through, and anyone that doesn't see it is naive or intentionally ignoring the parallel and real issue at hand - this is about creating the appearance of a pay to play grader that is overgrading and overvaluing items, something that the FTC already had to step in once before and prevent from continuing 32 years ago.

Edited September 2, 2021 by comicwiz

[comicwiz]

On 9/2/2021 at 6:35 AM, Domo Arigato said:

 

Really?

Let's see if we can come up with just one reason why WATA might have quickly gained market share from VGA...........but let's do it by having everyone play a little game.

The game is called "Let's pretend to submit a game for grading".

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

First of all.....I'd like everyone to visit WATA's website.....and then go through their process of submitting a game.  You don't need to log on, and you're not actually going to submit a game....just go through the motions to enter it into your Queue....which can easily be deleted at the bottom of the screen once you're done. 

1. You start by going to WATA's home page here and then clicking on "Submit a Game" towards the top of the screen.
2. On the next page, you'll select a system/platform from the drop down menu.....then select your game by starting to type it's name in the box until a drop down menu appears with your choices that you can click on.....then click on "This is my Game" at the bottom right.
3. On the second screen, you pick whether your game is sealed, complete in box, or loose cart.....then click a declared value range....then click "Continue" at the bottom right.
4. On the final screen, you click on the type of holder you want (most choose 3D).....then which service level you want.....and finally any additional services you want, like light cleaning......then click on "Add to Queue" at the bottom right.  You'll be able to see your game in the "Queue" at the bottom of the screen.

That's it.  You're done and can check out (if you were logged in) and mail your game.  Practice it a couple of times and see how fast you can enter a game for grading.  I haven't submitted very many games and just timed myself doing it.......it took me just over 27 seconds and all the fees are calculated for you.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Now I'd like everyone to visit VGA's website and do the same thing.  

I dare you.

First, you'll want make sure your computer is compatible with a website that looks like it was designed in the 90's.

The VGA online submission process is brand new, and should be a little bit easier, but we're going to ignore that since it wouldn't be relevant to why WATA has quickly gained market share from them so far.  Prior to their brand new online submission process, you had to do EVERYTHING MANUALLY with them, so that's what we're going to explore.  Let's begin.

1. You start by going to VGA's home page here and then hovering your mouse over "Submission Center" at the top and click on "Pricing and Tier Codes" in the drop down menu.
2. On the next page, you'll need to pick out the Tier Code and associated pricing for the game you want to submit.  You'll need to measure your game if it's not a standard size game.  Then you'll need to decide how fast of a Tier you want to submit under and find the associated Tier code and pricing for your game, since you'll need these later when manually filling out your forms.  You can also find pricing for additional services here...like cleaning.
3. Then you'll want to again hover your mouse over "Submission Center" at the top and click on "Forms" in the drop down menu.
4. On the next page, you'll go to the bottom and click on "Submission Forum (complete with directions)" which will get you to this page.
5. You can now view the 10 pages containing all of the submission forms you'll need to fill out along with all of their instructions.  Be sure to scroll all the way to the bottom to make sure you see all the forms that need to be filled in.  You can actually type your information into these pages, because you'll need to print them out to mail in with your game.  Unfortunately, you'll have to use these instructions to also figure all the costs out and add them in manually (like return shipping and insurance) and then manually figure out the totals. Go ahead and go through the process of entering the information as if your were submitting a game to see how their process is.

I triple dog dare you.

I do recommend people try the WATA submission form...as it's very easy and can literally takes less than a minute.  However, if the VGA stuff is too much of a hassle for you, feel free to cheat and watch the guy in this video from last month go through the process for you.  It will still give you a headache....but it will be a milder one.

 

I would say 95% of the people submitting to CGA, who have used the service at least once, will just send the items in with a note saying what grade tier, case (i.e. archival) with their name and return address. I've submitted everything from items of a couple of hundred, to thousands this way. Nothing ever gets lost. Everything gets graded. It doesn't get any easier than this. I'm sure WATA appreciates what you're doing here, but most of the people who have been paying attention to these allegations, I'm sure, are giving everything you're saying here a real hard think, wondering why you're trying to so hard to defend them, and/or will be giving them a hard pass.

Edited September 2, 2021 by comicwiz

[Domo Arigato]

On 9/2/2021 at 5:56 AM, comicwiz said:

Your explanation here begins with a predetermined hate for the person, then launches into an opinion laden explanation that misses the mark.

VGA's grading scale for vintage in general (and this is a little more clear to people who collect AFA toys) is stricter on a number of factors. On vintage items in general, the degradation factor has to be taken into account, particularly on a flimsy cellophane wrap that is prone to tearing open when it already begins to show signs of wear, mishandling, or quality control issues straight from the factory. Their strictness, at least from my point of view, and the pov of others who are spending money on a sealed state collectible, is appreciated, because it gives the buyer an early indication to take a close look at what is happening inside the case, and to request as much information as possible from the seller, and to not let the pictures do all the talking. The risk of being damaged during shipping is real, and understanding the characteristic flaws is important in calculating the risk associated to the item and what is being paid.

With that out of the way, on vintage items in general, and in the VGA context, any 95 and up grades are a pipe dream. You may see a population of a handful, but the majority are going to fall within the 85 and 90 tier. The 95 and up exist to make them relevant in the modern scale grading sense. So generally, you are going to see a lot more 80, 85 and 90's.

What is essential in any explanation in cross-over grading is who came to the market with a grading methodology first. VGA did, and they did so with a very similar model for AFA (toy grading), and DCA (die-cast grading). You now have a collectible consumer pool in multiple categories where their grading system has been unversalized, and appreciably understood to assist in removing any overinflated opinion of condition within person-to-person trading communities.

So a grader comes along and decides, let's increase the equivalence of a NM+ grade to a higher number, so the perception is people are going to identify with it being a higher grade, because after all, a 9 is higher than an 8. And let's add a few pluses, because Pat Sajack and Vanna White aren't going to charge us more for using them.

What you have is an inherently designed grading system built on the notion of crack and resub. Send your VGA games to WATA, and your 85 games will now come back with a higher number. Ask BSG how their strict grading has been used by sportscard specs to crack/resub - do some reading on the BSG 8.5's that come back PSA 9's (and how much of a value increase that single card, untouched, profits the resubmitter), or a BSG 9 to 10 (although rarer, this has also happened). Anyone that has done cross grading, looking to use the next big payday collectible to increase their profits will see what's happening in cross grading with VGA and WATA, and suddenly the dollar signs start popping-up.

This is Halperin's influence through and through, and anyone that doesn't see it is naive or intentionally ignoring the parallel and real issue at hand is - this is about creating the appearance of a pay to play grader that is overgrading and overvaluing items, something that the FTC already had to step in and prevent from continuing 32 years ago.

It's not a predetermined hate. 

I read his whacked out conspiracy theories that contain a bit of truth scattered throughout and then determined my hate. 

And the point is VGA isn't stricter.  They just heavily weight the grade on the seal.  What good is a nice seal on a boxed game if the box itself has a whole punched in it?  And I've seen plenty of VGA 95 grades and even some VGA 100 grades.  I've not seen a WATA 10 grade yet..  Yes, VGA came to market with their grading scale first in the video game market......but a lot of people outside of the toy hobby think that scale stinks.  Many people now into video games are more familiar with the 10 point grading scale that WATA uses and it's one of the reasons I went with them.  WATA has a grading scale that is straight forward and easy to understand for pretty much everybody.  The same can't be said for VGA's grading scale.  And your premise that the WATA scale just encourages the crack and resub game doesn't make any sense.  People are cracking VGA and resubmitting to WATA because the WATA graded games are getting the higher prices.  Period.  Not to mention their cases are better.  They're more tamper proof.  And they have UV coating built in without having to pay extra for the option. 

Edited September 2, 2021 by Domo Arigato

[Domo Arigato]

On 9/2/2021 at 6:03 AM, comicwiz said:

I would say 95% of the people submitting to CGA, who have used the service at least once, will just send the items in with a note saying what grade tier, case (i.e. archival) with their name and return address. I've submitted everything from items of a couple of hundred, to thousands this way. Nothing ever gets lost. Everything gets graded. It doesn't get any easier than this. I'm sure WATA appreciates what you're doing here, but most of the people who have been paying attention to these allegations, I'm sure, are giving everything you're saying here a real hard think, wondering why you're trying to so hard to defend them, and/or will be giving them a hard pass.

And I would say that's not correct in the slightest and don't believe it for a second.  Now you're suggesting that people take thousands of dollars in games, ignore all the forms and instructions provided by VGA to submit games to them, and just throw their games in a box with a sticky note and a check.

Anyone in here care to take a $10,000 game and roll the dice with his suggestion?  

Sorry comicwiz.....not buying it.  VGA has been bleeding market share since WATA hit the scene and it has nothing to do with conspiracy theories.  WATA came up with a superior product.....a vastly better website......a significantly easier submission process.....and built partnerships with other companies to take video game collecting main stream.  It's not rocket science.

 

Edited September 2, 2021 by Domo Arigato

[comicwiz]

On 9/2/2021 at 7:11 AM, Domo Arigato said:

People are cracking VGA and resubmitting to WATA because the WATA graded games are getting the higher prices.

No, they are submitting to WATA because they will grade them with a higher number than VGA. It's a fools game.

On 9/2/2021 at 7:11 AM, Domo Arigato said:

Not to mention their cases are better.

Their cases are horrendous, and looks like it was engineered by a toilet tank designer, maybe they were being prescient, and knew they'd tank the hobby. But ok, if you say so.

On 9/2/2021 at 7:11 AM, Domo Arigato said:

And they have UV coating built in without having to pay extra for the option.

What's important is assuring they recall any degradation happening in the case. Whether that be from transit, items being sold multiple times in a calendar year. That's what is crucial to case design. Seeing people fall back on an old grade, where the item inside has been damaged or degraded, is what really matters, the rest is just ignoring the reality and sting of buying a collectible in a manipulated market that isn't even valid for the grade assigned, and worse, when the market corrects or tanks, you won't even be able to get anyone to agree that the grade is valid.

Edited September 2, 2021 by comicwiz

[THE_BEYONDER]

On 9/2/2021 at 7:21 AM, Domo Arigato said:

and built partnerships with other companies to take video game collecting main stream.  It's not rocket science.

 

[comicwiz]

On 9/2/2021 at 7:21 AM, Domo Arigato said:

And I would say that's not correct in the slightest and don't believe it for a second.  Now you're suggesting that people take thousands of dollars in games, ignore all the forms and instructions provided by VGA to submit games to them, and just throw their games in a box with a sticky note and a check.

Anyone in here care to take a $10,000 game and try his suggestion?  

Sorry comicwiz.....not buying it.  Good grief, I think if anyone in here is trying too hard, it's you.  VGA has been bleeding market share since WATA hit the scene and it has nothing to do with conspiracy theories.  They came up with a superior product.....a vastly better website......a significantly easier submission process.....and built partnerships with other companies to take video game collecting main stream.  It's not rocket science.

 

Your bias is showing here, but I'll do you a solid and name Davidson Goldin and John Eddy. If their PR firm is worth a salt, they'll pick up this exchange and maybe hire you. They need all the help they can get.

[Domo Arigato]

On 9/2/2021 at 6:21 AM, comicwiz said:

No, they are submitting to WATA because they will grade them with a higher number than VGA. It's a fools game.

No, people care far more about the money than they do the grade.  WATA graded games are selling for record amounts.  That's why people are crossing them over.  Two plus two still equals four.....no matter how hard you want to squeeze a five out of it.

On 9/2/2021 at 6:21 AM, comicwiz said:

Their cases are horrendous, and looks like it was designed by a toilet tank designer, maybe they were being prescient, and knew they'd tank the hobby. But ok, if you say so.

The VGA cases look like a generic plastic box I can pick up at Walmart or a flea market.  The WATA cases are sturdier, have better security features, and have built in UV protection without nickel and diming their customers extra for it (and by nickel and diming, I mean an extra $20 minimum per game), plus they look better.  Which are all just more reasons why people are dumping their VGA grades and resubmitting their games to WATA.

On 9/2/2021 at 6:21 AM, comicwiz said:

What's important is assuring they recall any degradation happening in the case. Whether that be from transit, items being sold multiple times in a calendar year. That's what is crucial to case design. Seeing people fall back on an old grade, where the item inside has been damaged or degraded, is what really matters, the rest is just ignoring the reality and sting of buying a collectible in an manipulated market that isn't even valid for the grade assigned, and worse, when the market corrects or tanks, you won't even be able to get anyone to agree that the grade is valid.

Not sure what this has to do with anything.  I haven't seen any indication of people complaining about any degradation in a WATA case.  Not to mention the fact that I think I could stand on one and not do any damage.  I've shipped many games and have had many games shipped to me and no issues whatsoever.  The market is still booming, and it won't crash any harder than the manipulated comic market has.  So pardon me if I don't even try to pretend that I'm sweating.