Questions from a new guy (probably a rehash). 2 2

[Terry JSA]

On 10/16/2021 at 3:15 PM, StillOnly25Cents said:

you will quickly find there is no one size fits all answer to your question

This. 

[shadroch]

None of the books you listed are worth slabbing, but on the bright side you have $600 to spend.  

Slabbed comics take up a lot of room, and are heavy so the boxes to store them are even bigger.

[BabyAteMyDingo]

On 10/16/2021 at 4:57 PM, catman76 said:

The primary driver of folks who slab their comics is wanting the highest made up grade number on it. It's this competition with others and themselves so they can feel like they have something important and better than other people because they have a comic book encased in plastic that has a high number on it. That's all it is for 99 percent of people slabbing comics. 

Yeah, buddy. That is it in a nutshell. bragging rights. Ego. Along with that the inability to honestly grade and value your books yourself. Relying on the third party who is likely not much better than I am grading books.

The grades slip and slide from year to year. Last years loose grading is next years tight grading. They say older slabs are not accurate and some say they are more accurate. The fear of God is put into the collector: "Oh NO! What if it's had RESTORATION? What if there are PAGES MISSING? I won't be able to tell!"

No you won't unless you educate yourself. There is really nothing CGC or any other grading company can do that you can't teach yourself to do. If detecting resto is just a black light? Get one. I have seen many beautiful books take a kick in the teeth because on "Minor Color Touch On Cover". Usually a black dot near the staples. Or the thin, black border line going down the spine of the book. So, I "lose" 45-55% of its "Untouched" value? I don't think so.

I don't collect for other people or to impress them. Like the music I collect, my comics are chosen because I want them and I like them. I don't by bulk. I don't buy grades. If slabbed, I buy the book and not the number. I have some VERY nice looking 7.0's. I have some iffy looking 9.2's.

No. There is so much play and ambiguity in the grading process. We depend on the opinion of another person. That person may be having a tough life and it will show in his work. We are all just people after all. So, with all that said, I collect for the sheer fun of it. It helps keep me young at heart. That's worth more to me than "flipping".

[MetalPSI]

[thehumantorch]

On 10/16/2021 at 8:50 PM, BabyAteMyDingo said:

Yeah, buddy. That is it in a nutshell. bragging rights. Ego. Along with that the inability to honestly grade and value your books yourself. Relying on the third party who is likely not much better than I am grading books.

The grades slip and slide from year to year. Last years loose grading is next years tight grading. They say older slabs are not accurate and some say they are more accurate. The fear of God is put into the collector: "Oh NO! What if it's had RESTORATION? What if there are PAGES MISSING? I won't be able to tell!"

No you won't unless you educate yourself. There is really nothing CGC or any other grading company can do that you can't teach yourself to do. If detecting resto is just a black light? Get one. I have seen many beautiful books take a kick in the teeth because on "Minor Color Touch On Cover". Usually a black dot near the staples. Or the thin, black border line going down the spine of the book. So, I "lose" 45-55% of its "Untouched" value? I don't think so.

I don't collect for other people or to impress them. Like the music I collect, my comics are chosen because I want them and I like them. I don't by bulk. I don't buy grades. If slabbed, I buy the book and not the number. I have some VERY nice looking 7.0's. I have some iffy looking 9.2's.

No. There is so much play and ambiguity in the grading process. We depend on the opinion of another person. That person may be having a tough life and it will show in his work. We are all just people after all. So, with all that said, I collect for the sheer fun of it. It helps keep me young at heart. That's worth more to me than "flipping".

As someone else posted in this thread, 'no one size fits all'.

Not everyone CGC grades to flip.  Not everyone CGC grades because they can't grade or can't count pages or can't spot restoration.  Not everyone CGC grades to brag.

 

[MetalPSI]

On 10/16/2021 at 8:59 PM, thehumantorch said:

As someone else posted in this thread, 'no one size fits all'.

Not everyone CGC grades to flip.  Not everyone CGC grades because they can't grade or can't count pages or can't spot restoration.  Not everyone CGC grades to brag.

 

Fun to watch though

[thehumantorch]

On 10/16/2021 at 9:00 PM, Dr. Dank said:

Fun to watch though

I'm watching you...

[MetalPSI]

Actually it's a bit depressing for me, I can't get anyone to sell me a Turok 1 Gold 9.8 

[MetalPSI]

On 10/16/2021 at 9:02 PM, thehumantorch said:

I'm watching you...

[thehumantorch]

On 10/16/2021 at 9:03 PM, Dr. Dank said:

I like your backside 

[MetalPSI]

On 10/16/2021 at 9:04 PM, thehumantorch said:

I like your backside 

I hear that a lot, but coming from you, it's especially flattering 

[SellinMyCollection]

Joe Peck,

I am a somewhat newbie but I have been thinking the same as you for a while.  I have around 2,000 books in my collection, rather small for some of the guys here, but I am still buying, primarily older books.
I have gone through my collection and new stuff and after analyzing them, I have a small box I have decided to slab over time (as $$$ allows).
I look at a couple of things but primarily, what did I pay for the book, what is the estimated grade, and what is the graded price.  
I hear a LOT of if it that isnt worth more than $200, no need to grade, but I dont get the math.

I have an AMS 151 in high grade (9+ per grade my comic in boards), slabbed value around $168.  I paid ~$2.  Raw value is around $60-70.
CnP plus grading puts me at ~$52.
Raw sale (I wont sell it) I make ~$50. 
Slab it and sell it at the Avg price of $160 and I make ~$100, keep it 10 more years and maybe more.
Note: if the comic is at the max and is moving down, all of this is mute.  Like a HOT new release with spec pricing, which may tank.

Now with my personal newbie thoughts, every comment here is 100% valid based on their experience that may be more valuable than mine,

There is no 1 comment answer.  Flipper vs collector, short term vs long term, reader vs seller.

PLEASE, someone smack me down if I am looking at this incorrectly.

M


 

[2Sunny]

On 10/16/2021 at 4:03 PM, Poekaymon said:

I got back into the hobby in 2019 basically only because of CGC.  Without slabs, I simply wouldn't have had the confidence to deal in raws. Too afraid of getting scammed or getting books that had been restored, etc.  So throughout 2019 and the first half of 2020 I bought nothing but slabs.  So for buying, slabs are certainly safer.  Slabs are also much easier and safer to sell.  I've heard stories on here of sellers selling raws to people who send it back for a refund, only they send back a different, lower grade raw.  Slabs just help not to get scammed both ways.  

But I disagree that they aren't good for personal collections.  I do think they "preserve" them better in that there is less chance of them being damaged somehow.  My three year old has gotten his unsupervised hands on some of my slabs before.  Had they been raws, they would have been destroyed.  They also make it easy to display them.  You can get super cheap little plastic brackets and put them right up on the wall.  In fact, I've slabbed a couple low-grade books with the custom CGC label just because it's a relatively inexpensive "frame."

Having said all that, earlier this year I decided I wanted a higher percentage of raws in my collection.  Partially because I am more confident in evaluating raws and also because I have no intention to sell.  I also have a nice raw storage system now, with a lock, and already have enough things to go on display.  And because my slab collection was getting out of control and they do take up a lot of space.  So I cracked most of my slabs and have either only been buying raws or in some cases I buy a graded book and then immediately crack it.  In fact, I have cracked a lot of 9.8s in the last 6 months, which might surprise people, but I still like some extra assurance that something is a high grade book. 

Well call me crazy, but in just a couple of days I've gone from "time to pull my collection out of the closet and sell" to "hey, I like comics and it might be fun to collect a few more I like a lot."  So, crazy me I bought a slabbed 9.8 Nova 1 this morning, and I'm thinking I might do the same as you and "crack" it open and save it raw.  I fully appreciate and am glad that CGC is around and people are slabbing since at a minimum it dramatically increases the number of participants, but I'm most definitely coming down on the side of being a "collector" who wants to open and read and look at my comics.  Really, really appreciate everyone chiming in and offering different view points. Positively helped me focus my thoughts.

[2Sunny]

On 10/16/2021 at 11:56 PM, SellinMyCollection said:

Joe Peck,

I am a somewhat newbie but I have been thinking the same as you for a while.  I have around 2,000 books in my collection, rather small for some of the guys here, but I am still buying, primarily older books.
I have gone through my collection and new stuff and after analyzing them, I have a small box I have decided to slab over time (as $$$ allows).
I look at a couple of things but primarily, what did I pay for the book, what is the estimated grade, and what is the graded price.  
I hear a LOT of if it that isnt worth more than $200, no need to grade, but I dont get the math.

I have an AMS 151 in high grade (9+ per grade my comic in boards), slabbed value around $168.  I paid ~$2.  Raw value is around $60-70.
CnP plus grading puts me at ~$52.
Raw sale (I wont sell it) I make ~$50. 
Slab it and sell it at the Avg price of $160 and I make ~$100, keep it 10 more years and maybe more.
Note: if the comic is at the max and is moving down, all of this is mute.  Like a HOT new release with spec pricing, which may tank.

Now with my personal newbie thoughts, every comment here is 100% valid based on their experience that may be more valuable than mine,

There is no 1 comment answer.  Flipper vs collector, short term vs long term, reader vs seller.

PLEASE, someone smack me down if I am looking at this incorrectly.

M


 

Just curious . . . how long ago did you snag an ASM 151 for $2?  What a deal!!

If only . . . I collected ASM in '76 - '77 when I was 10 -11.  Bought comics most Saturdays after my guitar lessons using my paper route money.  Sadly girls became more interesting when I was 12 so I ended up collecting less than 2 years worth of ASM plus a couple I grabbed from a thrift store that sold ones from '74 & '75.  What's worse I actually read them for years and as a result few if any are 9+ but a couple are . . . or so I hope

 

Anyways, congrats on finding the 151!

[djzombi]

On 10/16/2021 at 3:17 PM, Namtak said:

There is a relief for some key in high grade when its slabed,its more secured less damageable,and age better because of inert gaz they put in instead of air if i remember corectly.

Slabs are not sealed with inert gas; in fact, they are not air-tight at all.  The closest to this is probably the acid-absorbing paper they put inside the book before it's encapsulated.  

[F For Fake]

For the personal collection, I don't slab things often because once they're slabbed, they're so easy to sell, I can't resist! If I leave 'em raw then in my mind they are "going to get graded some day", and are thus spared from the auction block. The increased turnaround times and qc issues makes it easier to just hold onto them.

There were a handful of books I wanted in 9.8, and I took care of those. Since then I've recently enjoyed picking up some slabs on the cheap, but am mostly a raw collector. I've fallen down a little clink rabbit hole lately. Drekky 9.8's under $100 and 9.6's on pricier moderns, and ultra low grade SA keys are pretty appealing in slabs, at least at the moment. We'll see how long my wallet holds out. (Spoiler: I'm always broke, so not long!)

There's no wrong way to collect. Have fun!

 

[2Sunny]

On 10/26/2021 at 9:02 PM, F For Fake said:

For the personal collection, I don't slab things often because once they're slabbed, they're so easy to sell, I can't resist! If I leave 'em raw then in my mind they are "going to get graded some day", and are thus spared from the auction block. The increased turnaround times and qc issues makes it easier to just hold onto them.

There were a handful of books I wanted in 9.8, and I took care of those. Since then I've recently enjoyed picking up some slabs on the cheap, but am mostly a raw collector. I've fallen down a little clink rabbit hole lately. Drekky 9.8's under $100 and 9.6's on pricier moderns, and ultra low grade SA keys are pretty appealing in slabs, at least at the moment. We'll see how long my wallet holds out. (Spoiler: I'm always broke, so not long!)

There's no wrong way to collect. Have fun!

 

Totally, in the same boat.  Thanks for sharing that story.  Really makes my day!!

 

I hit my pay wall in the first two weeks, but I find myself mysteriously torn between two worlds.  On the one hand I'd like to flip a few and make a buck since that's a thing now, (bought a Dazzler 1 to try) but on the other hand I'm super not into slabs for my personal collection since there's nothing I like more than actually reading my old comics (it's all new to me after 40 years in the closet) but now I'm focused on collecting strings.  Today I ordered 1-10 of the Invaders.  Still only $168 all in.  Not bad from a hobby cost standpoint, but when I looked at collecting Avengers I was sorely surprised . . .  we'll see

Edited October 27, 2021 by Joe Peck

[Lord Gemini]

On 10/26/2021 at 8:02 PM, F For Fake said:

For the personal collection, I don't slab things often because once they're slabbed, they're so easy to sell, I can't resist!

 

It's just the opposite for me. Ha ha. Many comics I slab with the intent to sell, but once I get them, I find it hard to part with them.

Also, I slab quite a few books I have no intention of selling because I like how they look slabbed, they're less likely to get damaged, and in many cases I plan on displaying them. There are a few variant covers that have just been released that I'm slabbing just for that purpose.

[James J Johnson]

On 10/26/2021 at 7:16 PM, Joe Peck said:

Totally, in the same boat.  Thanks for sharing that story.  Really makes my day!!

 

I hit my pay wall in the first two weeks, but I find myself mysteriously torn between two worlds.  On the one hand I'd like to flip a few and make a buck since that's a thing now, (bought a Dazzler 1 to try) but on the other hand I'm super not into slabs for my personal collection since there's nothing I like more than actually reading my old comics (it's all new to me after 40 years in the closet) but now I'm focused on collecting strings.  Today I ordered 1-10 of the Invaders.  Still only $168 all in.  Not bad from a hobby cost standpoint, but when I looked at collecting Avengers I was sorely surprised . . .  we'll see

If your aim is a flip for profit, CGC submit raw, sell it slabbed, you may be more successful if you establish a paid, or potential value baseline for submission. Successfully submitting for profit entails acquiring a set of skills whose scope transcends cost vs. profit alone; that is, being able to consistently recognize potentially favorable submission candidates for this end; but before other considerations, you may want to establish a value minimum, say $300, since even at that level, the cost of submission takes up a decent % of that value. Submission is great, but it's also overhead, and most looking for profit buying raw, selling slabbed always bear the cost of doing business in mind, which submission definitely is. 

The 12 to 13% ebay fees also can wreak havoc on a thin profit margin. Say you come ahead 100% on a flip, and that's a wildly optimistic outcome.. Buy raw for $100, submit, the submission going your way, and then selling the book for $200 on ebay. It would appear that you doubled your money. But now, you hvae to factor in submission cost and the ebay vig, whittling that $100 profit down to a negligible amount. 

The way to better offset those costs of doing business, submission + ebay or a consignment platform is by establishing a minimum $$ range of value for submission. This way, although the expenses remain the same, the numbers are larger, as is the less anemic amount of the bottom line. 

Of course, books that have a potential valuation of a few hundred for which you paid a buck or two; these will understandably will be good submission candidates, unless raw, they go for about the same as slabbed in the grade range. 

If you're paying retail or near retail rates for books in the current marketplace, IMO you will be best served by establishing a minimum $$$ baseline for submission to make it worthwhile, which for most, s typically in the $300 or more range. And that's only a small and basic component of the equation for successful flipping. The main element are the skills necessary to identify potential successful flips, raw to slabbed, and that also involves a good working knowledge of what a press can and can't do. 

Edited October 27, 2021 by James J Johnson

[jimjum12]

I might resist removing the CGC 9.8 NOVA 1 if it's the 1976 version and buy yourself what we call a "reader" copy. A specimen in the 6.0 range would satisfy the urge to read it and will preserve your investment in the high grade copy. Removing a 9.8 may add small defects that will reduce it's condition. I rarely de-slab (remove) anything in 9.0 or better, depending on the value, of course. GOD BLESS...

-jimbo(a friend of jesus)

Edited October 27, 2021 by jimjum12