"Cream to Off White" pages when grail hunting 4 4

[Venomous72]

When you are scrounging and saving for a big book (say its a scarce one), how much does page quality affect your decision?

Say you find one with beautiful colors, centering, etc, but it is CR/OW.  Is that a hard pass for you?

The more I collect, the more I realize I have passed over a lot of books immediately because I see CR/OW pages (and the book is staying slabbed anyway)

[Funnybooks]

CR/OW has never deterred me ( Golden Age ) as much as W/ has never enticed me ( Unless Golden Age )

[Venomous72]

On 12/11/2021 at 7:53 AM, Funnybooks said:

CR/OW has never deterred me ( Golden Age ) as much as W/ has never enticed me ( Unless Golden Age )

Yeah the ones I am looking for are 1963 Silver Age, and I know a lot of folks on this forum are a ‘hard no’ on CROW SA books (at least from what I remember reading)

[bronze johnny]

On 12/11/2021 at 9:44 AM, Venomous72 said:

When you are scrounging and saving for a big book (say its a scarce one), how much does page quality affect your decision?

Say you find one with beautiful colors, centering, etc, but it is CR/OW.  Is that a hard pass for you?

The more I collect, the more I realize I have passed over a lot of books immediately because I see CR/OW pages (and the book is staying slabbed anyway)

Passing on scarce books because of pq can be a costly mistake since you just never know when they will come up for sale again and what the price will be should these gems reappear on the market. 

Edited December 11, 2021 by bronze johnny

[Funnybooks]

On 12/11/2021 at 9:59 AM, Venomous72 said:

Yeah the ones I am looking for are 1963 Silver Age, and I know a lot of folks on this forum are a ‘hard no’ on CROW SA books (at least from what I remember reading)

same guys are scooping them up for themselves. Also probably the same guys that would never buy a cleaned and pressed book but now have submissions at CGC

Edited December 11, 2021 by Funnybooks

[Buzzetta]

As someone who has had books CPR'd I can attest to you that an OW-W book in one slab can come back a White book on another submission vice versa.

I can also tell you that a Cream-OW book in one slab has been determined to be OW in another submission. 

Edited December 11, 2021 by Buzzetta

[Ryan.]

On 12/11/2021 at 9:59 AM, Venomous72 said:

the ones I am looking for are 1963 Silver Age

What's your definition of "Scarce"? 

[Ryan.]

On 12/11/2021 at 10:05 AM, Buzzetta said:

As someone who has had books CPR'd I can attest to you that an OW-W book in one slab can come back a White book on another submission vice versa.

I can also tell you that a Cream-OW book in one slab has been determined to be OW in another submission. 

This. The only page quality designations I avoid are brittle/slightly brittle. As a mostly Golden Age collector, if I passed on CR-OW pages, I wouldn't be collecting much Golden Age. 

[Venomous72]

On 12/11/2021 at 8:11 AM, Ryan. said:

What's your definition of "Scarce"? 

Probs not the same as yours, less than 3-4k on the census count I suppose. Big silver age key Marvel 1962-1963 stuff. I’m personally looking at an Avengers 1..
 

obviously there are way more scarce books. 

[Ryan.]

On 12/11/2021 at 10:19 AM, Venomous72 said:

Probs not the same as yours, less than 3-4k on the census count I suppose. Big silver age key Marvel 1962-1963 stuff. I’m personally looking at an Avengers 1..
 

obviously there are way more scarce books. 

Gotcha. When I think Scarce I think of books that have just a few dozen on the census. For relatively common books like Avengers 1 you may as well hold out for a copy you really want. Patience is a valuable commodity in this hobby. 

[Funnybooks]

Patience can also cost you money. I would suggest you pick up a copy that appeals to you until you can "upgrade" in the future. I would bet apples to oranges that after you've owned the copy for a while, that you won't care that the pages are designated CR-OW.

[djpinkpanther67]

I won’t entertain tan or worse PQ on any age book.

Moderns only want WP

Late BA/Copper OWW OB

For BA/SA, I used to turn my nose up at COW or even OW.
Then I came to realize I actually cared more about the overall appearance of the book.
 

After all, they are slabbed, preserved, and the COW paper will last generations after I’m gone. I’m not even LOOKING at the pages of an actual slabbed book, just the FC/BC, so as long as it’s aesthetically pleasing to my eye, PQ is not as big a factor. I don’t mind saving the money either.

 

 

[alexgross.com]

On 12/11/2021 at 6:59 AM, Venomous72 said:

Yeah the ones I am looking for are 1963 Silver Age, and I know a lot of folks on this forum are a ‘hard no’ on CROW SA books (at least from what I remember reading)

cr/ow is always a no-go for me. SA books can always be found with better page quality, esp marvel books. some dc stuff is harder but still ow/wp is generally not hard to find in this period. GA it's less important as some books are tough, though i don't personally collect GA. 

[THE_BEYONDER]

On 12/11/2021 at 9:44 AM, Venomous72 said:

When you are scrounging and saving for a big book (say its a scarce one), how much does page quality affect your decision?

Say you find one with beautiful colors, centering, etc, but it is CR/OW.  Is that a hard pass for you?

The more I collect, the more I realize I have passed over a lot of books immediately because I see CR/OW pages (and the book is staying slabbed anyway)

Just request that CGC remove the PQ designation all together.  Problem solved 

 

[toro]

I have resubbed CR/OW and they have come back OW and a few OW/W.  That has never bothered me at all.

[MattTheDuck]

With the possible exception of some books that have become "undercopies" in my Silver Age collection this year, I don't have plans to sell books.  I don't buy books with an eye toward selling.  However, the day will come when either I or my heirs or their heirs, or somebody, will want to sell and want/deserve to get reasonable prices whatever that means at the time.  I'm not in sales, never have been, and would be bad at it.  However, I understand that one of the main attributes of a good salesperson is to be able to eliminate buyer objections to the purchase.  With this in mind, it makes sense to me to buy the highest PQ you can find/afford so in the future a buyer doesn't decline simply due to PQ.

[WolverineX]

I only go for OW as the lowest I go.  I know I should be more open to Cream-OW but can't pull the trigger when I pay a lot of money.  

[Cushing Fan]

While many of my silver age books are OW/W, I don't mind C/OW if it is a book that I really want. I would never have owned an AF15 if I passed by C/OW pages. 

[badback83]

I don’t mind C/OW on any G/S book, especially big keys.  

[PKJ]

As a former member of it has to be OW or better in the past few years I changed, mainly due to no real interest in selling those specific books that I own now that fall into that range.

25 years ago I wasn't paying as much attention to page quality as much as presentation, after adding certain books page quality was something I started looking at as "upgrade" need. As a collector I have always liked having place holders. Especially in this hobby if you buy what looks nice you can upgrade and you are upgrading the purchase price of the time you bought versus current prices. I bought plenty of IH181's over the years with intent of selling and they always sold pretty well for OW/W but White always sold for higher. In Bronze age books I still do not cross the C/OW line. 

 For silver, AF15 for instance, even though there are copies in OW or better, they almost always carry a premium even when they have heavy MC. I watched for a while for a copy  to hit in my wheelhouse with requirements in this order. Budget, No MC, No large pieces from front cover, then PQ. A really nice presenting C/OW hit and I went in on that one. At the time it was not discounted due to PQ, I am pretty sure it ranked in the top 4-5 highest prices for that grade sold even at the time. When it got here I was very happy with it. Fast forward today. If I had of kept waiting to buy an AF15  each copy I have watched with thoughts of upgrading the one I have hit pretty serious sales prices. So I am not sure it would be a book I would have PQ as a deterrent even though there are a decent amount of options each auction cycle.

 

 

 

Edited December 11, 2021 by PKJ