THE MARVELS starring Brie Larson, Iman Vellani and Teyonna Parris (2023) 9 9

[VintageComics]

On 11/12/2023 at 7:59 PM, paqart said:

When I lived in Europe, I had several German colleagues and students. They were more gracious and polite than any other group . Then I went to Tokyo and Yokohama for a conference, and the Japanese, likewise, were extremely courteous. After seeing dozens of WWII movies, I didn't expect either, but that is what I experienced. The same was true of my experience working for the Japanese game studio Square.

The most unique, refreshing and productive thing about east Asian culture is THEIR HUMILITY and lack of ego. 

You can have a CEO and a blue collar worker sitting next to each other in the lunchroom. I've heard it from multiple sources (or that's the way it used to be).

They just all had jobs but saw each other as equals, and as such they communicate with each other better and they are able to problem solve better.

How can ANYONE solve ANY problems when people can't even communicate with each other in simple conversation? It's impossible. 

[godzilla43]

On 11/13/2023 at 8:42 AM, VintageComics said:

The most unique, refreshing and productive thing about east Asian culture is THEIR HUMILITY and lack of ego. 

You can have a CEO and a blue collar worker sitting next to each other in the lunchroom. I've heard it from multiple sources (or that's the way it used to be).

They just all had jobs but saw each other as equals, and as such they communicate with each other better and they are able to problem solve better.

How can ANYONE solve ANY problems when people can't even communicate with each other in simple conversation? It's impossible. 

I have thought there is more hierarchy in Asian work culture than in West. Anyways of course everyone can eat in the same place but I think employees want some free time from their managers or directors. Also about the communication, employees talk to their managers, managers talk to directors and directors talk to CEO. The problem with many CEO are that they are hired because they have been CEO/director of some other company and are maybe not the right person for the job. Like John Sculley who probably was a good director in Pepsi but then in Apple was not the right person for the job because IT industry is completely different than food and beverage industry where suddenly your product don't come obsolete overnight.

[Cat]

On 11/13/2023 at 10:59 AM, paqart said:

When I lived in Europe, I had several German colleagues and students. They were more gracious and polite than any other group . Then I went to Tokyo and Yokohama for a conference, and the Japanese, likewise, were extremely courteous. After seeing dozens of WWII movies, I didn't expect either, but that is what I experienced. The same was true of my experience working for the Japanese game studio Square.

You didn't think they'd be nice because of WORLD WAR II MOVIES? 

Seriously? 

 

[Bosco685]

On 11/12/2023 at 11:39 PM, drotto said:

Is this a Mea Culpa, are the Disney MCU cheer leaders finally getting it?

 

 

Wow! Has she gone back to making sense again?

[drotto]

On 11/13/2023 at 7:55 AM, Bosco685 said:

Wow! Has she gone back to making sense again?

So much of what has been said on these boards was in there.  Marvel is missing the target with it's demographics. It's ok for movies to have different appeal to different groups, and is almost impossible to appeal to all people.  Marvel was purchase for it's male appeal, and precieved male weakness with the Disney brand, and then turned female. Film studios can think about message, but they have to make a film that makes money. You can't let the message come before plot. Movies need to be more balanced, and were becoming thr M-SHE-U (I almost spit out my drink when she mentioned this).

 

Makes her seem very disingenuous before (as well as other reviewers).  Why come clean now, this seemed like an honest assement, and not cheerleaders. 

Edited November 13, 2023 by drotto

[Bosco685]

On 11/13/2023 at 8:24 AM, drotto said:

So much of what has been said on these boards was in there.  Marvel is missing the target with it's demographics. It's ok for movies to have different appeal to different groups, and is almost impossible to appeal to all people.  Marvel was purchase for it's male appeal, and precieved male weakness with the Disney brand, and then turned female. Film studios can think about message, but they have to make a film that makes money. You can't let the message come before plot. Movies need to be more balanced, and were becoming thr M-SHE-U (I almost spit out my drink when she mentioned this).

 

Makes her seem very disingenuous before (as well as other reviewers).  Why come clean now, this seemed like an honest assement, and not cheerleaders. 

Oh, I get your point. For the longest time she was one of the paid cheerleaders.

Now...

Spoiler

 

 

[BigLeagueCHEW]

Movie was drek , post credit scenes were the most exciting part.

[drotto]

On 11/13/2023 at 8:40 AM, Bosco685 said:

Oh, I get your point. For the longest time she was one of the paid cheerleaders.

Now...

  Reveal hidden contents

 

 

It gives credence to the idea that certain critics (I am not singling her out her, it just came across as very transparent after this video), are either getting paid off, or so afraid to lose access that they can't be too harsh.  I know this has been mentioned on the RT thread.

[paqart]

On 11/13/2023 at 7:44 AM, Cat said:

You didn't think they'd be nice because of WORLD WAR II MOVIES? 

Seriously? 

 

Allow me to clarify. After a steady diet of Hogan's Heroes and many other TV and films with WWII themes, I had never seen a German who was not abrasive. Every portrayal was negative. It isn't that I expected them to be bad people, as you suggest (a ridiculous notion, btw) but that I didn't expect them to be the exact opposite. The Germans I met were gracious to a degree I had until then rarely encountered. The contrast was with how they were portrayed in American filmed entertainment, which until then provided my only frame of reference.

In future, you may want to hesitate before engaging in mockery.

[paqart]

On 11/12/2023 at 12:02 PM, Bosco685 said:

Thanks for reminding me of Wakanda Forever. I completely forgot that movie existed. It's a shame, because I have always liked the Namor character, but was disappointed in the film. With any luck the "Disney period" of MCU movie will be a blip in an otherwise stellar record, like assistant editor's month. Marvel is undoubtedly worth less now, thanks to Disney's efforts, and can be bought by someone who can restore the brand to its former glory. Elon? Want to buy some superheroes?

[namisgr]

So you've finally caught on that American filmed entertainment has been providing messages rather than purely telling stories since at least back to World War II.  

[paqart]

On 11/12/2023 at 10:58 PM, Cozmo-One said:

A main part of the movie is around a pair of bangles that is a large source of power (of which Ms Marvel has one and the villain has the other).  I think it's touched about in the movie, but the series goes a lot more in depth on how Ms Marvel acquired hers...if you find that interesting like I do.  So there may be some things around her history and family that are quickly glossed over in the movie.  ScreenCrush does a real nice recap of the entire series:

I hadn't read the comics so I'm not sure how closely they follow her origin story there.

The way they work remind me of the nega-bands that caused Captain Marvel (Mar-vell, not Carol Danvers, Ms. Marvel) to switch places with Rick Jones. Are they like that?

[drotto]

On 11/13/2023 at 9:50 AM, namisgr said:

So you've finally caught on that American filmed entertainment has been providing messages rather than purely telling stories since at least back to World War II.  

Never questioned it. There is definitely a time and a place for it also. But there is also a time and place for movies to be mostly devoid of those things, and just be escapism.

Edited November 13, 2023 by drotto

[namisgr]

On 11/13/2023 at 9:59 AM, drotto said:

Never questioned it. There is definitely a time and a place for it also. But there is also a time ans place for movie to be mostly devoid of those things, and just be escapism.

Agreed.  It wasn't you I was responding to, to be clear.

[paqart]

On 11/13/2023 at 1:35 AM, VintageComics said:

First off, I don't mine Buzzetta's posts at all, but why doesn't anyone complain when HE posts off topic in movie threads?

Why do certain characters only complain when I'm posting off topic? Asking for a friend. 

Anybody? 

I genuinely don't care, I just find it funny that I get constant complaints but when Buzz posts pics of plumbing pr talks about dinner, nobody cares.

Well, actually I care. I enjoy posts like this. It's what makes us human. 

Moving on:

This is definitely part of it, but it is absolutely NOT the main reason.

The main reason is that Disney and other companies have an agreed upon system of operation, that much like in the blue collar world, they need to have a certain TYPE of content in their product to represent all sorts of people. It has to be delivered a certain way and with certain messaging. Their product needs to conform to certain ideals. This is unequivocally true. If anyone wants to see the hows and whys, all they need to do is ask.

This is WHY corporations are interfering with the art of story telling. 

A writer may want a certain type of character, or type of story and if the story doesn't conform to their strategy, they change it. But what they do in effect is they CHANGE THE ARTIST'S CREATION and add corporate content. 

Imagine a Zeppelin record being recorded, but in 1973, say...cowbell is all the rage. So they start putting cowbell in Zeppelin songs all over the place. 

But Zeppelin is in their "country and folk" era, and Cowbell doesn't belong, scream Jimmy Page and Robert Plant!!

"Well, I'm the record label owner, and I'm funding this record and the audience wants cowbell, so I WANT YOU TO PUT IN MORE COWBELL!"

So they put in cowbell everywhere, and it doesn't make sense to Plant, Page, Jones and Bonham. 

And the record tanks because there's too much cowbell. 

And then the Big Money guys blame the band.

And they all get fired and more Cowbell goes into the NEXT record in line.

 

This may sound funny, but the analogy is perfect and this is EXACTLY what is happening and why the movies are failing at the box office.

Just like in Spiderman 3. They had too many foreign corporate interests. Sony even ADMITTED to it. 

You want to see a movie that isn't failing? Find the movies that don't have too much cowbell and more true art in them.

That's what people want. 

That made me think of Forrest Gump, The Passion, and The Sound of Freedom. All three had no cowbell, did very well, and were shunned by the studios. You may argue about Forrest Gump, but that would have to be based on the narrative about the film that started after it was nominated for, and won, a lot of Academy Awards. When it came out, it had a Rotten Tomatoes score (or something like it, on a 100 point scale) of about 50. The critics hated Gump. The reason was that the movie was "an unbelievable rags to riches story about a dumb guy who could never have been as successful as portrayed in the film."  All of the critics missed the fact that the movie was actually about "what love is." They panned the movie right up until it won the Oscars. After that, the original reviews disappeared overnight and its score shot up to 98 or so. My guess is that the real reason the critics didn't like it is that Gump didn't fit their preconceived notion of what a man like that was supposed to be, or what was allowed for his future.

Robert Zemeckis directed Gump, so it did have studio backing, unlike the other two. If you were reading the original stories about the movie shortly after it came out, you would have had a totally different impression of critic's reaction to it. Each of the three movies just mentioned, went against Hollywood's conventional wisdom and did well because of it. Hollywood, it turns out, may be the dullest pencil in the drawer.

[paqart]

On 11/13/2023 at 9:50 AM, namisgr said:

So you've finally caught on that American filmed entertainment has been providing messages rather than purely telling stories since at least back to World War II.  

Are you intending to convey some kind of message with this sarcasm?

[namisgr]

On 11/13/2023 at 10:05 AM, paqart said:

Are you intending to convey some kind of message with this sarcasm?

It's not sarcastic.  Based on your post I responded to, you now appear to accept that movies have been made with messages for a very long time.  Perhaps from their inception, although you made no mention of that specifically.  

A different viewpoint than that was the subject of discussion earlier in this thread and before that in the Barbie movie thread in which you participated, that there was a transition in movies from pure storytelling to messaging.  But since the time of Fritz Lang and Walt Disney that hasn't been so.

Edited November 13, 2023 by namisgr

[paqart]

On 11/13/2023 at 10:15 AM, namisgr said:

It's not sarcastic.  Based on your post I responded to, you now appear to accept that movies have been made with messages for a very long time.  Perhaps from their inception, although you made no mention of that specifically.  

A different viewpoint than that was the subject of discussion earlier in this thread and before that in the Barbie movie thread in which you participated, that there was a transition in movies from pure storytelling to messaging.  But since the time of Fritz Lang and Walt Disney that hasn't been so.

Disappointing, but true. In an effort to find entertainment without the type of odious messaging that fills modern entertainment products, I have stepped back through the decades, trying to find something I can enjoy. You are right that messaging is always present, but the type of messaging that dominates does change over time. The current focus is more flagrant today, but can be found as far back as Father Knows Best in the 1950's, or even earlier in films. In less disguised form, modern themes can be found in Barney Miller from the mid-1970's, M*A*S*H, That Girl!, the Mary Tyler Moore Show, and many others. 

The first TV series I have been able to find that seems mostly neutral, in direct reverse chronological order from today, is Perry Mason. The actors themselves would have fit in with today's crowd, but the scripts are not filled with the characteristics that make me stop the playback and look for something else. Films have more variety in messages, making it easier to find something that appeals, even in more modern films. In any given year, there are usually a few films that lack the ideological poison de jour. However, to find a large number of American films that would look foreign by contemporary standards, you'd have to go back to the early 1950's or 1940's.

Ironically, the early 1930's and 1920's start looking more "modern" by today's standards. A biography of producer Irving Thalberg does a good job explaining why. It's because the people in the business of making films have always been a similar type with few exceptions. They have always wanted to make the kind of movie we see today, though I doubt they wanted it built into their bylaws. The new rule that to be eligible for nomination in the Academy Awards, you must have a certain diverse set of characters, would likely have been rejected by even the most libertine producer in the 1930's.

Speaking for myself, that rule would inspire me to do the opposite, and not have a diverse cast until the rule was rescinded. The cast should be whatever the script demands, and the script should contain what the story requires. A sign of bad writing is the inclusion of unnecessary or distracting story elements. The Oscar rule ensures that movies are full of such distractions, and consequently, poor writing. One of the few situations I can think of where the rule is a natural fit for the story, is a movie about how dumb the rule is. Another would be a film centered on a situation where demographics tend to mix, like a heist at the DMV or a big city restaurant. Changing the race of mythological Norse characters is strange and distracting unless the casting and script are perfect. Anything short of that is an unnecessary and unwanted distraction.

[drotto]

On 11/13/2023 at 10:48 AM, paqart said:

Disappointing, but true. In an effort to find entertainment without the type of odious messaging that fills modern entertainment products, I have stepped back through the decades, trying to find something I can enjoy. You are right that messaging is always present, but the type of messaging that dominates does change over time. The current focus is more flagrant today, but can be found as far back as Father Knows Best in the 1950's, or even earlier in films. In less disguised form, modern themes can be found in Barney Miller from the mid-1970's, M*A*S*H, That Girl!, the Mary Tyler Moore Show, and many others. 

The first TV series I have been able to find that seems mostly neutral, in direct reverse chronological order from today, is Perry Mason. The actors themselves would have fit in with today's crowd, but the scripts are not filled with the characteristics that make me stop the playback and look for something else. Films have more variety in messages, making it easier to find something that appeals, even in more modern films. In any given year, there are usually a few films that lack the ideological poison de jour. However, to find a large number of American films that would look foreign by contemporary standards, you'd have to go back to the early 1950's or 1940's.

Ironically, the early 1930's and 1920's start looking more "modern" by today's standards. A biography of producer Irving Thalberg does a good job explaining why. It's because the people in the business of making films have always been a similar type with few exceptions. They have always wanted to make the kind of movie we see today, though I doubt they wanted it built into their bylaws. The new rule that to be eligible for nomination in the Academy Awards, you must have a certain diverse set of characters, would likely have been rejected by even the most libertine producer in the 1930's.

Speaking for myself, that rule would inspire me to do the opposite, and not have a diverse cast until the rule was rescinded. The cast should be whatever the script demands, and the script should contain what the story requires. A sign of bad writing is the inclusion of unnecessary or distracting story elements. The Oscar rule ensures that movies are full of such distractions, and consequently, poor writing. One of the few situations I can think of where the rule is a natural fit for the story, is a movie about how dumb the rule is. Another would be a film centered on a situation where demographics tend to mix, like a heist at the DMV or a big city restaurant. Changing the race of mythological Norse characters is strange and distracting unless the casting and script are perfect. Anything short of that is an unnecessary and unwanted distraction.

But the messaging years ago seemed to lack the in your face or even abrasive qualities that it has take on in more recent times.  Almost a here is what I think, but if we disagree we can talk about it, and maybe still be friends. Also, creators would let the viewers judge for themselves. Now the creators attack and tend to get very combative when challenged.  It really feeds the worst on both sides of the issues.

[paqart]

On 11/13/2023 at 10:48 AM, paqart said:

 

Speaking for myself, that rule would inspire me to do the opposite, and not have a diverse cast until the rule was rescinded. The cast should be whatever the script demands, and the script should contain what the story requires. A sign of bad writing is the inclusion of unnecessary or distracting story elements. The Oscar rule ensures that movies are full of such distractions, and consequently, poor writing. One of the few situations I can think of where the rule is a natural fit for the story, is a movie about how dumb the rule is. Another would be a film centered on a situation where demographics tend to mix, like a heist at the DMV or a big city restaurant. Changing the race of mythological Norse characters is strange and distracting unless the casting and script are perfect. Anything short of that is an unnecessary and unwanted distraction.

And PS: Why was Loki, the adopted brother of Thor, played by Tom Hiddleston instead of Idris Elba? Why make Heimdall African/Norse when there is an adopted brother from another race in the script?