THE MARVELS starring Brie Larson, Iman Vellani and Teyonna Parris (2023) 9 9

[EastEnd1]

On 11/14/2023 at 9:16 AM, sfcityduck said:

This thread is bizarre. A strange mixture of naivety, conspiracy, and lack of common sense.

Corporations exist to pursue profits. That motivation almost always overrides all other considerations. Corporate policies and strategies are formed by people who get paid a lot of money and want to make more money. So much so that that on a regular basis we see management steer corporations into illegal actions designed to improperly inflate profits or stock value and the resulting securities class actions and shareholder derivative lawsuits.

Media companies, like other corporations, seek profits. All corporations, including media companies, believe reaching new customers (audiences for media companies)is a key to expanding profits. So why is anyone surprised that Barbie or the Marvels were made? Timely/Marvel has been chasing trends since 1939, and it is no coincidence that Ms. Marvel was created after the first issue of Ms, magazine came out with a Wonder Woman comic section in it. It was a play for profits, so too Spider-woman, Dazzler, Miles Morales, Power-Man and Iron Fist etc. etc.

ESG is an acronym for concepts which have both existed for a long time and which are largely unimportant to corporations unless they are viewed as good for business. Contrary to what folks on this thread seem to believe, in the world of Directors and Officers liability ESG has not been viewed as the alarming or driving force folks here seems to think it is.

Barbie made a lot of money. Expect more female empowerment films. Miles Morales etc.made a lot of money, expect more non-white male superhero movies. The guys stuck in the 60s can grouse but corporations will chase profits.

Which is why there is no shortage of “traditional” content because that too makes money. 

Is any of this content any “good”? That’s a subjective consideration which corporations only really care about if it furthers the business plan - which in some cases it does.

’nuff said.

 

Well said, that's EXACTLY how it works. 

[NewWorldOrder]

On 11/14/2023 at 6:16 AM, sfcityduck said:

This thread is bizarre. A strange mixture of naivety, conspiracy, and lack of common sense.

Corporations exist to pursue profits. That motivation almost always overrides all other considerations. Corporate policies and strategies are formed by people who get paid a lot of money and want to make more money. So much so that that on a regular basis we see management steer corporations into illegal actions designed to improperly inflate profits or stock value and the resulting securities class actions and shareholder derivative lawsuits.

Media companies, like other corporations, seek profits. All corporations, including media companies, believe reaching new customers (audiences for media companies)is a key to expanding profits. So why is anyone surprised that Barbie or the Marvels were made? Timely/Marvel has been chasing trends since 1939, and it is no coincidence that Ms. Marvel was created after the first issue of Ms, magazine came out with a Wonder Woman comic section in it. It was a play for profits, so too Spider-woman, Dazzler, Miles Morales, Power-Man and Iron Fist etc. etc.

ESG is an acronym for concepts which have both existed for a long time and which are largely unimportant to corporations unless they are viewed as good for business. Contrary to what folks on this thread seem to believe, in the world of Directors and Officers liability ESG has not been viewed as the alarming or driving force folks here seems to think it is.

Barbie made a lot of money. Expect more female empowerment films. Miles Morales etc.made a lot of money, expect more non-white male superhero movies. The guys stuck in the 60s can grouse but corporations will chase profits.

Which is why there is no shortage of “traditional” content because that too makes money. 

Is any of this content any “good”? That’s a subjective consideration which corporations only really care about if it furthers the business plan - which in some cases it does.

’nuff said.

Disney is trying to make money, but since COVID and their new course of direction it is not working.

Failure after failure after failure.

and yes the only goal of any company is to make money, and Disney is not doing a good job at that currently.

[sfcityduck]

On 11/14/2023 at 6:29 AM, NewWorldOrder said:

Disney is trying to make money, but since COVID and their new course of direction it is not working.

Failure after failure after failure.

and yes the only goal of any company is to make money, and Disney is not doing a good job at that currently.

The pandemic adversely impacted all movie and theme park businesses. Is Disney doing worse than others? Its results are better than Warner, for example. You are looking at isolated movies. All companies have some failures. To support your assertion you need took at the Q reports for the companies in the sector. 

Folks who second guess a particular movie are generally back seat drivers focused on their own nostalgia. Being a critic is easy. It tells you nothing about the overall business.  
 

[VintageComics]

On 11/14/2023 at 9:16 AM, sfcityduck said:

This thread is bizarre. A strange mixture of naivety, conspiracy, and lack of common sense.

 

On 11/14/2023 at 9:21 AM, EastEnd1 said:

This is just typical corporate fluff, not evidence of a vast corporate conspiracy to take down western civilization.  

Why would the two of you conflate everything into the word 'conspiracy' when everything in this discussion on my part has been rooted in fact, science and economics? 

Throwing around words like a dog whistle just to discredit people doesn't work anymore. That ship has sailed and not returning. 

 

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Who mentioned taking down civilization?

If these corporations take down civilization, who will they sell their products to?

I think you're connecting my dots incorrectly so let me spell it out. 

 

The WEF meets regularly with the largest 800 corporations in the world. Fact. 

These corporations are as economically as powerful as entire countries. Fact. 

Because these corporations are as large as the countries they sit with at the WEF alongside the leaders of 200 countries to discuss policy that will help them drive their businesses into these countries. Fact.

Therefore, these corporations have the ability through the WEF, due to their size and influence to dictate terms and policies that are acceptable to them. Fact. 

-------------------------------------------------------------------

Sure it's 'just economics' for the corporations, but when you blend the economics of the 800 most powerful companies that LITERALLY RULE THE ECONOMIC WORLD (remember, Blackrock manages $10 Trillion in assets and they are only ONE SEAT AT THE TABLE - there are 799 other seats) and you mingle that with the aspirations of individual policy makers, what do you get?

You get the most powerful lobby industry in the world all sitting at one table multiple times a year to navigate the direction of society. In effect, you get the world's largest polished 'turd'.

 

The Stepford Wives analogy is the perfect analogy.

They want a homogenized, consistent, group-thinking society. Why?

Well, Larry Fink the CEO of Blackrock said it best: "D******** in the West is messy. It swings one way one day, and the other way the next whereas in countries like China, they have an incredible amount of control on their economics" (I'm paraphrasing but that's the gist - you can search the video of him saying this).

What they're saying is that if they can reduce the swings economically, they can better control the direction of the economy and better INVEST IN IT. 

They're not trying to take down civilization, they're trying make society a consumer driven society so that they can continue to sell you their wares and you continue to buy them. The corporations are removing options while giving people what they deem you and I need. 

In effect, they are removing the "free" from the "free market". 

How is that working for them?

Well, without a full free market, you ultimately end up with an unpalatable product forced onto everyone.

Disney and Bud for proof. 

THIS is why the MCU is floundering and I've been saying it from the beginning.

Outside corporate interests and the pursuit of profit are affecting the art form. 

Does anyone disagree?

Edited November 14, 2023 by VintageComics

[Dave2739]

On 11/14/2023 at 10:00 AM, VintageComics said:

 

Why would the two of you conflate everything into the word 'conspiracy' when everything in this discussion on my part has been rooted in fact, science and economics? 

Throwing around words like a dog whistle just to discredit people doesn't work anymore. That ship has sailed and not returning. 

 

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Who mentioned taking down civilization?

If these corporations take down civilization, who will they sell their products to?

I think you're connecting my dots incorrectly so let me spell it out. 

 

The WEF meets regularly with the largest 800 corporations in the world. Fact. 

These corporations are as economically as powerful as entire countries. Fact. 

Because these corporations are as large as the countries they sit with at the WEF alongside the leaders of 200 countries to discuss policy that will help them drive their businesses into these countries. Fact.

Therefore, these corporations have the ability through the WEF, due to their size and influence to dictate terms and policies that are acceptable to them. Fact. 

-------------------------------------------------------------------

Sure it's 'just economics' for the corporations, but when you blend the economics of the 800 most powerful companies that LITERALLY RULE THE ECONOMIC WORLD (remember, Blackrock manages $10 Trillion in assets and they are only ONE SEAT AT THE TABLE - there are 799 other seats) and you mingle that with the aspirations of individual policy makers, what do you get?

You get the most powerful lobby industry in the world all sitting at one table multiple times a year to navigate the direction of society. 

The Stepford Wives analogy is the perfect analogy.

They want a homogenized, consistent, group-thinking society. Why?

Well, Larry Fink the CEO of Blackrock said it best: "D******** in the West is messy. It swings one way one day, and the other way the next whereas in countries like China, they have an incredible amount of control on their economics" (I'm paraphrasing but that's the gist - you can search the video of him saying this).

What they're saying is that if they can reduce the swings economically, they can better control the direction of the economy and better INVEST IN IT. 

They're not trying to take down civilization, they're trying make society a consumer driven society so that they can continue to sell you their wares and you continue to by them. The corporations are removing options while giving people what they deem you and I need.

In effect, they are removing the "free" from the "free market". 

How is that working for them?

Well, without a full free market, you ultimately end up with an unpalatable product forced onto everyone.

Disney and Bud for proof. 

THIS is why the MCU is floundering and I've been saying it from the beginning.

Outside corporate interests are affecting the art form. 

Does anyone disagree?

TLDR. Don't you have a job?

[VintageComics]

On 11/14/2023 at 9:56 AM, sfcityduck said:

The pandemic adversely impacted all movie and theme park businesses. Is Disney doing worse than others? Its results are better than Warner, for example. You are looking at isolated movies. All companies have some failures. To support your assertion you need took at the Q reports for the companies in the sector. 

Folks who second guess a particular movie are generally back seat drivers focused on their own nostalgia. Being a critic is easy. It tells you nothing about the overall business.  
 

You're deflecting and moving goal posts again.

This discussion has NOTHING TO DO WITH DISNEY THEME PARKS. 

We're talking about the MCU here. Pay attention. 

[alexgross.com]

per the WSJ today:

 

Disney’s Marvel Cinematic Universe has been the most successful movie franchise in history, grossing nearly $30 billion globally over 33 films to date. But this past weekend provided the latest sign that the lucrative stable of superheroes is in need of some rescuing. “The Marvels” grossed a mere $47 million for its domestic box-office debut—a record low for the franchise and a major disappointment even against other recent Marvel movies that have been showing signs of strain. The nine other Marvel movies that have opened since the pandemic closed movie theaters in 2020 have averaged a domestic opening weekend of about $136 million, according to data from Box Office Mojo.  

 

skipping ahead:

 

Moviegoers shouldn’t really expect Hollywood studios to suddenly abandon their timeworn practice of falling back on the familiar. Disney has already broadcast plans to scale back on its studio output, with Chief Executive Bob Iger admitting on last week’s earnings call that “we lost some focus” regarding the quantity and quality of content the company has released of late. But he also added, “We are focusing heavily on the core brands and franchises that fuel all of our businesses”—strongly suggesting that Marvel’s heroes won’t get benched. “New IP has a much lower hit rate than established IP,” noted analyst Doug Creutz of TD Cowen in a report on Disney last week.

 

---

not a surprise that marvel's attempt with marvels to pander to an audience that generally could not care less about superheroes (teen girls) while abandoning any attempt to reel in a middle age and older male audience would result in a giant flop. one second of the preview made that obvious to most folks. 

i think Iger's comment about CORE BRANDS suggests that IRON MAN is about due for a reboot with whoever the most popular actor is today with younger people. whether it will work without RDJ is an open question of course. 

 

[VintageComics]

On 11/14/2023 at 10:02 AM, Dave2739 said:

TLDR. Don't you have a job?

Yes. Schooling you. 

I can't imagine how much I'd have to hate my life to take the time to tell someone else on the internet, that I didn't read their post and go on to insult them. 

Edited November 14, 2023 by VintageComics

[Bosco685]

On 11/14/2023 at 9:16 AM, sfcityduck said:

ESG is an acronym for concepts which have both existed for a long time and which are largely unimportant to corporations unless they are viewed as good for business. Contrary to what folks on this thread seem to believe, in the world of Directors and Officers liability ESG has not been viewed as the alarming or driving force folks here seems to think it is.

The OCC, FTc, and SEC Climate Risk Task Force would disagree with this statement as they issue greenwashing-related fines against financial service providers and individual companies proclaiming environmentally friendly products (see $19M fine levied against Deutsche Bank/DWS division).

Naturally, they should have checked the CGC forum first to set their priorities.

[VintageComics]

On 11/14/2023 at 10:06 AM, alexgross.com said:

per the WSJ today:

 

Disney’s Marvel Cinematic Universe has been the most successful movie franchise in history, grossing nearly $30 billion globally over 33 films to date. But this past weekend provided the latest sign that the lucrative stable of superheroes is in need of some rescuing. “The Marvels” grossed a mere $47 million for its domestic box-office debut—a record low for the franchise and a major disappointment even against other recent Marvel movies that have been showing signs of strain. The nine other Marvel movies that have opened since the pandemic closed movie theaters in 2020 have averaged a domestic opening weekend of about $136 million, according to data from Box Office Mojo.  

 

skipping ahead:

 

Moviegoers shouldn’t really expect Hollywood studios to suddenly abandon their timeworn practice of falling back on the familiar. Disney has already broadcast plans to scale back on its studio output, with Chief Executive Bob Iger admitting on last week’s earnings call that “we lost some focus” regarding the quantity and quality of content the company has released of late. But he also added, “We are focusing heavily on the core brands and franchises that fuel all of our businesses”—strongly suggesting that Marvel’s heroes won’t get benched. “New IP has a much lower hit rate than established IP,” noted analyst Doug Creutz of TD Cowen in a report on Disney last week.

 

---

not a surprise that marvel's attempt with marvels to pander to an audience that generally could not care less about superheroes (teen girls) while abandoning any attempt to reel in a middle age and older male audience would result in a giant flop. one second of the preview made that obvious to most folks. 

i think Iger's comment about CORE BRANDS suggests that IRON MAN is about due for a reboot with whoever the most popular actor is today with younger people. whether it will work without RDJ is an open question of course. 

 

So Bob Iger and The Wall Street Journal both agree with ME? Is there a scientist that can confirm this for me? 

What a coincidence. The irony here is that many saw from the beginning what it took $155Billion 5 years to see. 

They're NEVER going to do away with Superheros. Heroes are the ultimate human archetype.

They just need to make better stories.

What I interpret Marvel as saying is "Oops, we messed up. Here come the X-men and Fantastic Four!"

HECK YEAHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Edited November 14, 2023 by VintageComics

[shadroch]

We are about five years into this evil ESG experiment that supposedly the top 800 firms are practicing. The stock market keeps reaching all-time highs, and unemployment is at record lows.  Obviously, this whole evil ESG thing is wrecking the economy.  If it isn't nipped in the bud, who knows what the consequences might be.  

Be Pure. Be Vigilant. Behave.

[Bosco685]

On 11/14/2023 at 9:15 AM, VintageComics said:

Well, if even two people (you and I) who can't agree on anything else, can agree on this, that HAS to say something meaningful to everyone reading. 

I know you got annoying with my posts over the last few days or weeks, but I am consistent throughout in my philosophy and outlook on life in every aspect. There's no turds or swiss cheese holes here in my camp, and after being slandered and attacked for years and being called biased and "selfish" and IGNORANT, I simply have wanted people to know what is really going on behind the scenes for some time so I'm thrilled to have been able to share, and I have to partially thank you for providing the ability to do that. 

Thanks for saying that. 

Not sure if you mean to spin up drama with your statements. 

I got annoyed with your posts? That would be more emotional investment in a topic than it was. It became more an excessive distraction from sorting through The Marvels discussion. But annoyance - not at all. If anything, it made for more thread humor indirectly.

[VintageComics]

On 11/14/2023 at 10:10 AM, Bosco685 said:

The OCC, FTc, and SEC Climate Risk Task Force would disagree with this statement as they issue greenwashing-related fines against financial service providers and individual companies proclaiming environmentally friendly products (see $19M fine levied against Deutsche Bank/DWS division).

Naturally, they should have checked the CGC forum first to set their priorities.

Yes.

This is where CANCEL CULTURE comes from. No corporation wants their company to drop their ESG score because it will affect who does business with them. 

The reason Disney snapped their fingers and dropped Johnny Depp, their largest star IS BECAUSE THEY DIDN'T WANT THEIR ESG SCORE AFFECTED.

Read between the lines, people.

It's why everything is happening the way it is. ESG has been EVERYTHING up until this point. EVERY SINGLE OCCURRENCE is related to ESG. 

An article from Barrons from a year ago:

BlackRock CEO Stands Firm on ESG Investing

 

ESG is the most powerful tool in the world, held by the most powerful people in the world. 

 

 

 

Edited November 14, 2023 by VintageComics

[VintageComics]

On 11/14/2023 at 10:15 AM, Bosco685 said:

Not sure if you mean to spin up drama with your statements. 

I got annoyed with your posts? That would be more emotional investment in a topic than it was. It became more an excessive distraction from sorting through The Marvels discussion. But annoyance - not at all. If anything, it made for more thread humor indirectly.

Sorry, I meant to type annoyed. But, OK. 

[sfcityduck]

On 11/14/2023 at 7:00 AM, VintageComics said:

 

Well, without a full free market, you ultimately end up with an unpalatable product forced onto everyone.

Disney and Bud for proof. 

THIS is why the MCU is floundering and I've been saying it from the beginning.

Outside corporate interests are affecting the art form. 

Does anyone disagree?

Roy, I generally really appreciate your insights on comic collecting. I disagree with your political views. The excerpt of your lengthy post above is a good illustration as to why I find the views you are expressing as wholly unpersuasive.

First, “free market” does not mean what you think it does. A “full free market” is one that is free of government regulation. It is not one that is free of corporate monopoly, oligarchy, or concentration of wealth. “Free market” advocates want corporations free to achieve the things you dislike. Those of us who support government regulation, such as anti-trust and unfair competition laws, are the ones seeking to curb some of the problems you identify.

Second, your concern is not about an unpalatable product being forced on everyone.  The taste of Bud did not change when Anheiser-Busch used a trans person in a commercial. Your concern is free speech: You do not want views you disagree with being aired in movies you haven’t even seen yet or groups you don’t like being represented in a Bud commercial.

Corporate interests have always affected the art form of Timely/Marvel comics. From day one because Goodwin wanted to jump on the superhero trend he thought would bring him profits - which it did then, and again when he jumped back on the trend in the early 60s. So?

You can always read Cerebus if you want a creato controlled comic free of all restraint. Corporate produced comics aren’t that.

Edited November 14, 2023 by sfcityduck

[VintageComics]

On 11/14/2023 at 10:23 AM, sfcityduck said:

Roy, I generally really appreciate your insights on comic collecting. I disagree with your political views. The excerpt of your lengthy post above is a good illustration as to why I find the views you are expressing as wholly unpersuasive.

First, “free market” does not mean what you think it does. A “full free market” is one that is free of government regulation. It is not one that is free of corporate monopoly, oligarchy, or concentration of wealth. “Free market” advocates want corporations free to achieve the things you dislike. Those of us who support government regulation, such as anti-trust and unfair competition laws, are the ones seeking to curb some of the problems you identify.

Second, your concern is not about an unpalatable product being forced on everyone.  The taste of Bud did not change when Anheiser-Busch used a trans person in a commercial. Your concern is free speech: You do not want views you disagree with being aired in movies you haven’t even seen yet or groups you don’t like being represented in a Bud commercial.

Corporate interests have always affected the art form of Timely/Marvel comics. From day one because Goodwin wanted to jump on the superhero trend he thought would bring him profits - which it did then, and again when he jumped back on the teen in the early 60s. So?

you can always read Cerebus if you want a creato controlled comic free of all restraint. Corporate produced comics aren’t that.

I am discussing economics, the science of men and women and human nature in relation to the MCU. You are injecting political talking points that I am not interested discussing. 

I know exactly what I'm talking about, I know what a free market is (I use that term GENERALLY not LITERALLY) and I fully WANT my views disagreed with and overturned if they can be. I have no other vested interest except the truth. 

Please stick directly to my discussion points without conflating them into something else. If you can't stick to the economics, science and human nature in relation to the MCU then stop replying. 

Edited November 14, 2023 by VintageComics

[Hulksdaddy1]

On 11/14/2023 at 10:15 AM, shadroch said:

We are about five years into this evil ESG experiment that supposedly the top 800 firms are practicing. The stock market keeps reaching all-time highs, and unemployment is at record lows.  Obviously, this whole evil ESG thing is wrecking the economy.  If it isn't nipped in the bud, who knows what the consequences might be.  

Be Pure. Be Vigilant. Behave.

Inflation generally results in lower unemployment and higher stock market. 

[sfcityduck]

On 11/14/2023 at 7:28 AM, VintageComics said:

 

Please stick directly to my discussion points without conflating them into something else. If you can't stick to the economics, science and human nature discussion then stop.

ESG is politics. The Bud commercial is politics. Human nature is politics. Economic theory is politics. Get back to me when you discuss science.

[Bosco685]

On 11/14/2023 at 10:22 AM, VintageComics said:

Sorry, I meant to type annoyed. But, OK. 

Not a worry. I still appreciate your intent. I think.

[VintageComics]

On 11/14/2023 at 10:30 AM, Hulksdaddy1 said:

On 11/14/2023 at 10:15 AM, shadroch said:

We are about five years into this evil ESG experiment that supposedly the top 800 firms are practicing. The stock market keeps reaching all-time highs, and unemployment is at record lows.  Obviously, this whole evil ESG thing is wrecking the economy.  If it isn't nipped in the bud, who knows what the consequences might be.  

Be Pure. Be Vigilant. Behave.

Inflation generally results in lower unemployment and higher stock market. 

Yep. The stock market is inflating with the economy.

Shadroch generally only cares if he's making money. 

So if 350 million people have had their assets and savings eviscerated through inflation, 10,000s are losing their jobs through poor CEO decision making at Bud and Disney and poverty is at all time highs, as long as he's making money from the stock market he believes the economy is in good shape. 

Edited November 14, 2023 by VintageComics