THE MARVELS starring Brie Larson, Iman Vellani and Teyonna Parris (2023) 9 9

[jsilverjanet]

On 11/14/2023 at 11:44 AM, jsilverjanet said:

@Buzzetta we need to find a new forum

nevermind

[VintageComics]

On 11/14/2023 at 12:42 PM, buttock said:

On 11/14/2023 at 12:39 PM, VintageComics said:

You can send me all your thoughts via text like you usually do. 

I'll send a facebook clip via IG like a grandma...

Well that explains the stalking. 

[jsilverjanet]

I think if I read most of the reviews posted by boardies here, most were positive (better than they expected but still not on par with pre phase 4 movies) with the exception of 1 or 2 (I remember NWO's)

Am I right @Bosco685 ?

Edited November 14, 2023 by jsilverjanet

[sfcityduck]

On 11/14/2023 at 9:18 AM, NewWorldOrder said:

Universal Studios seems to be doing just fine.

Everything Disney has mostly done since Endgame has been a colossal failure, and pandemic did not impact their brains to hire those terrible writers, and use D-level trash characters.  Spider-Man No Way Home came out at the height of the pandemic, how did that do?

I am very much a front seat driver, most people I know saw this coming from the MCU and Disney years ago from the course they were taking.

The Marvels was predicted by thousands of people to be the biggest MCU bomb of all time, and as per usual they were right.   As I posted earlier this movie is absolutely the low point for MCU and Disney.  I am hoping this is there final wake up call to get back to what made the MCU great or their financial struggles and stock price will continue to decline.

As I previously said:

On 11/14/2023 at 9:11 AM, sfcityduck said:

Nothing wrong with Disney wanting to jump on those wagons. Could they do it better than Marvels? Absolutely - they could do all their movies better and for me the very best movies are still Sony's first Spiderman trio. Should Disney not try? That would be foolish. 

 

 

The MCU has hit the same problem that Marvel hit in the 1970s. Although origin stories are fresh and interesting most of the subsequent stories are pretty repetitive "villain of the month" stories. Ultimately, that becomes so repetitive that you either have to bring the story forward in time (usually that results in marrying off your heroes) or do events (which get repetitive) or reboot (an admission you got nothing new to say). Marvel has done all three. The MCU basically started strong by sticking to the 60s stories and then fell into the "event" trap. The Spiderverse went with giving up after three movies and then moving to a reboot.  FF failed once and then failed again. None of this involved ESG. It's just the result of running out of the classic material, lack of ideas, and too much dedication to the same old characters.

Where the MCU has shined since the big event is with Loki and WandaVision (same is true for Star Wars with Andor). Trying out fun new ideas that proved really interesting. But those stories could not have been told in movies. Movies are harder than TV because they are compact. It was a mistake to mix the Subby debut and origin story with Black Panther. Ant-Man and Wasp have always been challenging characters who didn't work outside of a team - they milked it a bit too far. Eternals was a lousy comic and lousy movie. Really hope DC learned the lesson and we don't get "Fourth World" attempts. Captain Marvel was a good movie IMHO. Guardians didn't really fit in with the 60s vibe the MCU was going for. I've bot MCU fatigue. Personally, I think Disney needs to cut back on Marvel a bit and find its next big thing.

[NewWorldOrder]

I think generally everyone here fully understands all the reasons why MCU and Disney have been failing since Avengers: Endgame and the easy and yes I mean 1st grade level easy ways to fix it.

If they start giving the fans and general audience the 2008-2019 MCU they will bring most of the magic back to the silver screen.

If they keep giving the fans and general audience the 2020-now experience then expect Disney to lose millions more.

Again there is no such thing as super hero fatigue, all that is happening is bad storytelling and characters boredom fatigue. 

 

[sfcityduck]

On 11/14/2023 at 9:40 AM, NewWorldOrder said:

I have seen "Killers of the Flower Moon" three times this month.

If there are good movies I would go to the movie theater all the time as would millions of people.

But that movie is going to lose money. How can you say its good!?! LoL!

[NewWorldOrder]

On 11/14/2023 at 9:50 AM, sfcityduck said:

As I previously said:

The MCU has hit the same problem that Marvel hit in the 1970s. Although origin stories are fresh and interesting most of the subsequent stories are pretty repetitive "villain of the month" stories. Ultimately, that becomes so repetitive that you either have to bring the story forward in time (usually that results in marrying off your heroes) or do events (which get repetitive) or reboot (an admission you got nothing new to say). Marvel has done all three. The MCU basically started strong by sticking to the 60s stories and then fell into the "event" trap. The Spiderverse went with giving up after three movies and then moving to a reboot.  FF failed once and then failed again. None of this involved ESG. It's just the result of running out of the classic material, lack of ideas, and too much dedication to the same old characters.

Where the MCU has shined since the big event is with Loki and WandaVision (same is true for Star Wars with Andor). Trying out fun new ideas that proved really interesting. But those stories could not have been told in movies. Movies are harder than TV because they are compact. It was a mistake to mix the Subby debut and origin story with Black Panther. Ant-Man and Wasp have always been challenging characters who didn't work outside of a team - they milked it a bit too far. Eternals was a lousy comic and lousy movie. Really hope DC learned the lesson and we don't get "Fourth World" attempts. Captain Marvel was a good movie IMHO. Guardians didn't really fit in with the 60s vibe the MCU was going for. I've bot MCU fatigue. Personally, I think Disney needs to cut back on Marvel a bit and find its next big thing.

So your overall point is MCU is out of ideas for the movies?

[VintageComics]

On 11/14/2023 at 12:48 PM, jsilverjanet said:

I think if I read most of the reviews posted by boardies here, most were positive (better than they expected but still not on par with pre phase 4 movies) with the exception of 1 or 2 (I remember NWO's)

This brings up an entirely new discussion about what people think makes a movie "good" and what doesn't. 

And it dovetails directly into the discussion we had about AI, where eventually most people aren't able to tell between what's real and what isn't real.

You don't find it concerning that people will not be able to tell between reality and fantasy?

That's at the heart of overarching philosophical discussion in all of this, that being that people are becoming increasingly unaware of being unable to make that distinction.

The MCU is peddling corporate designed art and trying to pass it off as real art, much like when a band signs a label, the label gets involved and the band sells out to do the bidding of the label. 

We all know that nobody wants that done to their music, so why don't the same people defend this art form the same way?

Food for thought. 

 

[paqart]

On 11/14/2023 at 9:16 AM, sfcityduck said:

This thread is bizarre. A strange mixture of naivety, conspiracy, and lack of common sense.

Corporations exist to pursue profits. That motivation almost always overrides all other considerations. Corporate policies and strategies are formed by people who get paid a lot of money and want to make more money. So much so that that on a regular basis we see management steer corporations into illegal actions designed to improperly inflate profits or stock value and the resulting securities class actions and shareholder derivative lawsuits.

Media companies, like other corporations, seek profits. All corporations, including media companies, believe reaching new customers (audiences for media companies)is a key to expanding profits. So why is anyone surprised that Barbie or the Marvels were made? Timely/Marvel has been chasing trends since 1939, and it is no coincidence that Ms. Marvel was created after the first issue of Ms, magazine came out with a Wonder Woman comic section in it. It was a play for profits, so too Spider-woman, Dazzler, Miles Morales, Power-Man and Iron Fist etc. etc.

ESG is an acronym for concepts which have both existed for a long time and which are largely unimportant to corporations unless they are viewed as good for business. Contrary to what folks on this thread seem to believe, in the world of Directors and Officers liability ESG has not been viewed as the alarming or driving force folks here seems to think it is.

Barbie made a lot of money. Expect more female empowerment films. Miles Morales etc.made a lot of money, expect more non-white male superhero movies. The guys stuck in the 60s can grouse but corporations will chase profits.

Which is why there is no shortage of “traditional” content because that too makes money. 

Is any of this content any “good”? That’s a subjective consideration which corporations only really care about if it furthers the business plan - which in some cases it does.

’nuff said.

Arg. I just spent two hours writing a reply to this but it vanished when I posted it. There is no way I am going to try and recreate the post. The bottom line is that there are a number of ways to conceive of "value" at a corporation. It isn't just "profit" "money," or "net sales." It can also be tax advantages, better terms on a deal, reduced operating expenses, less legal exposure, fewer regulatory hassles, and on and on. On top of all that, there is this value: supporting causes that align well with the personalities of those in charge. We see this in businesses owned by religious people, who keep the doors closed on Saturday (Jewish) or Sunday (Christian). There are many other causes and corporations run the gamut of what they support.

There are plenty of examples from the world of business where businesses collectively make bad decisions, or when executives go off on their own and do things that are bad for business. Sometimes they do things that are good for business but bad for their image. Sometimes its bad for business but good for their image. With ESG, it's bad for business and image among some customers, and good for both with others. The bad for both group appears many times larger than the good for both crowd, but the good for both crowd is ideologically aligned with the executives that make decisions. That clouds their thinking because they see a real advantage from that group.

Edited November 14, 2023 by paqart

[sfcityduck]

On 11/14/2023 at 9:56 AM, NewWorldOrder said:

So your overall point is MCU is out of ideas for the movies?

A wise man said:

On 11/14/2023 at 9:52 AM, NewWorldOrder said:

 

If they start giving the fans and general audience the 2008-2019 MCU they will bring most of the magic back to the silver screen.

 

 

Those stories have been told. Those actors are aging out of their roles. And you can't go home again ... without another reboot.

[NewWorldOrder]

On 11/14/2023 at 9:53 AM, sfcityduck said:

But that movie is going to lose money. How can you say its good!?! LoL!

Now thats a movie with an inflated budget and Apple just letting Martin do his thing.  The fact that 3.5 hour movie is going to do $100 million should be viewed as amazing.  $250 million budget is there downfall.

I think it did $40 million compared $47 for The Marvels opening weeken.   Comparably speaking that is pathetic.

[jsilverjanet]

On 11/14/2023 at 11:52 AM, NewWorldOrder said:

If they start giving the fans and general audience the 2008-2019 MCU they will bring most of the magic back to the silver screen.

i think it's too difficult to do that without FF/X-Men

Let's see what happens but they really should not have made a lot of these movies in phase 4 and 5. they were totally a cash grab that failed

[jsilverjanet]

i also think they felt the need to push the content out because of demand - people wanted more but i do believe they've created the fatigue along with the other companies because it has not been original (a lot of marvel movies have the same formula) or poor writing/directing/acting/production

 

Edited November 14, 2023 by jsilverjanet

[NewWorldOrder]

On 11/14/2023 at 10:03 AM, sfcityduck said:

A wise man said:

Those stories have been told. Those actors are aging out of their roles. And you can't go home again ... without another reboot.

MCU has never told stories of:

X-Men

FF

Doctor Doom

Magneto

Silver Surfer

Galactus.

Just Doctor Doom with Galactus you have the new Loki and Thanos.

Now I do agree FF will not be as well received as the Avengers, but the X-Men can make billions over 10-15 years with all their Heroes and Villains.  Mix in the Silver Surfer and Galactus becoming the 10-15 year climax villain and you have a couple billion right there to make.

 

 

[NewWorldOrder]

On 11/14/2023 at 10:04 AM, jsilverjanet said:

i think it's too difficult to do that without FF/X-Men

Let's see what happens but they really should not have made a lot of these movies in phase 4 and 5. they were totally a cash grab that failed

See my above post.

[D84]

[NewWorldOrder]

Here is a good future easy prediction.

If Captain America 4 does not star Chris Evans, it's a flop.

If MCU/Disney thinks Falcon or the Winter Soldier can carry a movie then here is my answer to each of them.

 

How can anyone believe that a terrible Disney+ show with those 2 characters will then do well on the big screen would just show how out of touch Disney really is.

Edited November 14, 2023 by NewWorldOrder

[jsilverjanet]

i think it's fair to say that Disney/MCU has really tarnished their brand with the content of the past few years, and if the track record continues will completely destroy their product before we even see FF/X-Men

Ryan Reynolds maybe the one to save them

[VintageComics]

On 11/14/2023 at 1:15 PM, NewWorldOrder said:

Here is a good future easy prediction.

If Captain America 4 does not star Chris Evans, it's a flop.

If MCU/Disney thinks Falcon or the Winter Soldier can carry a movie then here is my answer to each of them.

 

How can anyone believe that a terrible Disney+ show with those 2 characters will then do well on the big screen would just show how out of touch Disney really is.

We live in a world where the average Joe can better understand what people want than the "experts". All the "experts" have done is ruin everything lately. 

Time to scale it back a bit and use human input rather than algorithms and focus groups and "experts".

 

[VintageComics]

On 11/14/2023 at 1:21 PM, jsilverjanet said:

i think it's fair to say that Disney/MCU has really tarnished their brand with the content of the past few years, and if the track record continues will completely destroy their product before we even see FF/X-Men

Ryan Reynolds maybe the one to save them

And WOLVERINE AND THE X-men. 

This is what it has all been building towards since the $97 Billion purchase.