THE MARVELS starring Brie Larson, Iman Vellani and Teyonna Parris (2023) 9 9

[Cat]

On 11/15/2023 at 7:36 AM, NewWorldOrder said:

Oh I am with you (isnt it nice we finally agree on something? ), and I think they can do well with the FF, just X-Men will probably be more relatable to the vast audience and a bigger draw than the FF.

Now where I think we both for sure agree is if they do FF right and mix in Dr. Doom (villain 1A) and Galactus (villain 1B) and combo that with X-men and Magneto then you easily have 10-15 years of magic if done right.  Plus even a X-Men vs Avengers movie.  I just think when people say their are out of ideas that's silly you know. 

 

Could not agree with you any more. 

[NewWorldOrder]

On 11/14/2023 at 1:58 PM, Cat said:

Could not agree with you any more. 

Don't make me start cheering again in the other thread!

[VintageComics]

On 11/14/2023 at 4:50 PM, NewWorldOrder said:

I think they are going to just go back to 2 MCU movies a year, and that right away will have a world of difference in quality control.

Less sometimes will make you more.

Less is DEFINITELY more in this case. 

I've been saying that for years. Just pull your foot back off the gas a hair and shoot forward a mile. It's like that in racing when you do it right. 

In racing, when you're tucked in behind a competitor and get in under their airstream you actually have to back off on the gas a bit because the car in front of you is pulling you along in their wake. That leaves LOTS of extra throttle to overtake at the right time. 

If you're full throttle all the time, you'll just run out of fuel and not even finish, so smart long distance drivers use the fuel of the car ahead of them as often as possible and when the time is right, the "drop the hammer."

On 11/14/2023 at 4:05 PM, Bosco685 said:

Did that come up in this thread? It got lost in a lot of other discussion, so I missed it.

No. 

On 11/14/2023 at 4:39 PM, WeR138 said:

My wife and 2 daughters were going with me occasionally.  Now that I stopped going to the theatre to view Marvel "product", they have no interest in it.

Can you please confirm where on this graph below you fall? Asking for a friend.

Let me add that it's the same in my world: with 3 daughters, a step daughter and two ex-wives and 'only' two boys (and myself) I was personally responsible for dragging 6 women to the theaters and 2 men. And those women went to many moves they likely wouldn't have gone to the theaters to see without me. 

But the boys would DEFINITELY go alone without me. 

You can't change nature. 

 

@jaybuck43

Let's do a deep dive. You're the pro and are way better at searching info in your field than I am.

How many men have taken their wives and daughters to the MCU movies?

How many daughters and wives have taken their husbands to MCU movies?

Two very poignant, simple and yet revealing and important questions to the discussion that will help us understand this graph better. 

 

Edited November 14, 2023 by VintageComics

[NewWorldOrder]

I am usually 50/50 on agreeing with him, but the first 5 min is worth a listen because I do agree completely.

KANG is not the answer going forward. 

[jaybuck43]

On 11/14/2023 at 4:32 PM, Bosco685 said:

I have a feeling Chapek wanted Star Wars and Marvel content to flood the market, assuming moviegoers and streaming subscribers wanting all this coming at them hot and heavy. Never taking into consideration over-saturation to the point it impacted production quality and consumer interest.

But Iger doesn't get off the hook. As his $71.3 Billion purchase of Fox Studios to fill the Disney+ pipes assumed massive revenue from subscribers. Not accounting for how much that expense would drag on as operational expenses for years.

The Fox purchase was never about the film studios.  Fox was 100% aimed at killing their largest sports competitor (Fox Sports).  Disney (and ESPN) was worried about Fox running up content acquisition costs, as the bidding for sports rights has gotten out of hand.  They killed their biggest competitor, scattered its remains to the winds, and tried (but failed) to get a foothold into Europe.  It also bolstered their back library for content originally meant for D+ and Hulu, but will now also be licensed to Netflix.  

[Buzzetta]

On 11/14/2023 at 4:50 PM, NewWorldOrder said:

I think they are going to just go back to 2 MCU movies a year, and that right away will have a world of difference in quality control.

Less sometimes will make you more.

I said that pages ago.  "Sometimes you have to go away.  If you don't, how will we ever miss you?"

[VintageComics]

On 11/14/2023 at 4:42 PM, N7 M31 said:

I have a family member who is visiting from India , he's in his early 20's and comes from a city with over 14 million people . We both are huge fans of the superhero genre and I asked him how do you consume the content D+?  theatres? netflix?. He responded with a hard NO and said "we just download everything now for free and share amongst friends". 

Is this hard evidence? probably not at the moment . is this hurting the MCU and other movie worldwide box office numbers? probably 

Now that is a GREAT point. Thanks for sharing it!

My first thought is that it's an angle I hadn't considered. 

My second thought is that it seems that downloading would affect the entire industry and not just one movie house. 

So my third thought is curious as to how the MCU is doing compared to any other movie houses, relatively speaking. 

@jaybuck43 ?

 

[NewWorldOrder]

On 11/14/2023 at 2:12 PM, Buzzetta said:

I said that pages ago.  "Sometimes you have to go away.  If you don't, how will we ever miss you?"

Me or MCU movies?

[Buzzetta]

On 11/14/2023 at 5:15 PM, NewWorldOrder said:

Me or MCU movies?

MCU movies you nitwit !

[Axelrod]

Well, I would wager I see more movies than any of you people here.  At least, in the theater. 

I pretty much see everything.  Even lousy movies that I am pretty sure are going to be lousy.  Because I enjoy the experience and I still have fun. 

This movie was - not especially surprisingly to me - a hot mess.  The story/plot, the logic, the character interactions, the emotional beats/payoff it was aiming for.  Really not well thought out.  It was much like the last Ant Man movie in this regard.  

It was also completely inoffensive. 

Completely devoid of any "messaging" or attempts to do anything other than entertain.  And I can see why some (perhaps less critically inclined) would be entertained.  

That is really all there is to see here.  

 

[greggy]

On 11/14/2023 at 2:18 PM, Buzzetta said:

MCU movies you nitwit !

Speak for yourself. 

xoxo

greggy

[Bosco685]

On 11/14/2023 at 5:08 PM, jaybuck43 said:

The Fox purchase was never about the film studios.  Fox was 100% aimed at killing their largest sports competitor (Fox Sports).  Disney (and ESPN) was worried about Fox running up content acquisition costs, as the bidding for sports rights has gotten out of hand.  They killed their biggest competitor, scattered its remains to the winds, and tried (but failed) to get a foothold into Europe.  It also bolstered their back library for content originally meant for D+ and Hulu, but will now also be licensed to Netflix.  

I hear you. But then the actual man himself spelled out the motivations.

Iger says Disney bought Fox because of value it adds to streaming service: ‘The light bulb went off’

Quote

KEY POINTS

• Disney chief Bob Iger says that the company’s bid for 21st Century Fox assets would never have happened if it weren’t for Disney+, its new streaming service.
• “We would not have done that transaction had we not decided to go in this direction,” Iger tells CNBC.
• “What could it mean having access to [Fox’s] library, not to monetize it through traditional means, but to do it through this?” Iger added. “Bam! I mean, the light bulb went off.”

 

Edited November 14, 2023 by Bosco685

[Hulksdaddy1]

The actual real problem, going forward, is credibility. 5 years ago, my faith in Feige et al to make rockin' FF and X-Men movies was high, almost 100%.

Now, my expectations are low. And perception becomes reality. The box office proves that.

[jsilverjanet]

On 11/14/2023 at 4:12 PM, Buzzetta said:

I said that pages ago.  "Sometimes you have to go away.  If you don't, how will we ever miss you?"

that doesn't apply to people or does it?

[NewWorldOrder]

On 11/14/2023 at 2:22 PM, Hulksdaddy1 said:

The actual real problem, going forward, is credibility. 5 years ago, my faith in Feige et al to make rockin' FF and X-Men movies was high, almost 100%.

Now, my expectations are low. And perception becomes reality. The box office proves that.

 

Edited November 14, 2023 by NewWorldOrder

[jsilverjanet]

On 11/14/2023 at 4:33 PM, NewWorldOrder said:

<div class="tenor-gif-embed" data-postid="20106528" data-share-method="host" data-aspect-ratio="1.00629" data-width="100%"><a href="https://tenor.com/view/thats-correct-david-rose-dan-levy-schitts-creek-ep210-gif-20106528">Thats Correct David Rose GIF</a>from <a href="https://tenor.com/search/thats+correct-gifs">Thats Correct GIFs</a></div> <script type="text/javascript" async src="https://tenor.com/embed.js"></script>

learn how to post an image n00b

[NewWorldOrder]

On 11/14/2023 at 2:34 PM, jsilverjanet said:

learn how to post an image n00b

It was a gif

[jsilverjanet]

On 11/14/2023 at 2:38 PM, jaybuck43 said:

The numbers LEAN more male, they are not dominated.  Sure, I don't think ANYONE would argue that superhero audiences skew or lean younger and more male.  BUT the point here is to push back on your comment that women have NO INTEREST in these movies.  (I believe you called it trying to fit a square peg in a round hole).  Women watch superhero movies, a lot more than you seem to believe.  Why do you immediately jump that the women were dragged by their spouse? What about men dragged their spouse?  I can think of at least one female boardie who probably had to drag her spouse to see some of these films.  

Wanna have a discussion about the films?  Sure!

What are the problems?

Fatigue (this is what, the 33rd Marvel film) in 60 years Bond (the second largest cinematic franchise i can think of off the top of my head) has had 25 official films.  Marvel did almost 10 more in 1/6th the time.  No franchise can sustain an audience across THAT many films it's going to wear them out.

Effort: It used to be you went to the theater, watched the movie, and boom you were golden.  Now you needed to watch this Doctor Strange film, and then also know about what happened on the Disney+ Show Wandavision to have any idea whats going on in the latest Spider-Man film.  That's going to turn off your casual viewer.  

Story: This one kinda builds off the fatigue aspect.  From Iron Man to Avengers Endgame, there was a major overarching, planned story.  It was good. You wanted to see the next marvel movie because you wanted to see the next piece in the puzzle.  Since then... these are just kinda stand alone films.  They exist.  They're FINE (in some cases, some are just dreck, looking at you Eternals) but they aren't going anywhere.  So... the more casual viewers are like "what's my incentive to go see it".

Star power: Why did RDJ get paid so much money?  Cause he's a huge star that people like.   Then he rubbed off on the other actors and built them up.  Now Hemsworth, Evens, Ruffelo, etc are all on pretty equal footing.  Is Brie Larson a draw the same way Scarlett Johanson is?  I don't think so.

Competition: Let's be honest, 2020 changed consumption habits.  People STILL do not go back to the theaters in the same numbers they did pre-2020.  We averaged 11 billion a year from 2015-2019, now we'll be lucky to break 9 billion this year (i'm tracking at about 8.7 billion).  People liked being able to just stream at home.  I would not be at all surprised at a lot of your casuals (especially female) being like "O cool, that'll be fun to watch on a crappy night in" or something like that.  

Grounded to cosmic:  For the most part, the MCU has been relatively grounded.  It wasn't until the last film that we got into things like time travel etc.  Yes it was "Thor's from Asgard" and "Outer Space with the Guardians"... but the films and plots remained grounded.  It wasn't until Endgame that we start introducing crazy concepts like time travel (still didn't like that Dues Ex).  Now poop is popping off. We've got multiverse theory, and variants and all these crazy things.  People are starting to roll their eyes at it and say "too far fetched fantasy for me".  

Now specific to this movie there are a couple of problems:

Sag Strike:  Can't send out Brie Larson or Samuel L Jackson to go promote it.  No talk ups on ET, Access, Colbert, etc. to get people excited for it.  Couldn't promote it at NYCC etc. This definitely tracked the movie down.

It just looked bad: Shrug to each their own.  The trailer just looked like  to me, figured i'd skip it and wait to see it on D+.

**********

What is laughable are the people in here talking about how Disney is going bankrupt because of their films.  Film doesn't even make up 10% of their media LINE, let alone the entire company.  (The profit on the DME segment was more than double the entire GROSS of their theatrical unit (Disney splits theatrical revenue 55-45 with AMC etc. (this varies by country and by film, but it's the standard)  The company saw revenue jump 23% from 2021 to 2022.  It's an $82 BILLION dollar a year company.  

not sure if you got the memo but I was told the tide had turned, and opposition had been destroyed. you are wasting your time, two people seem to have figured out the problems with the MCU and are now going to cure cancer (Hustruck) and build a 40 foot fire pit (copperagekids) to celebrate

you're welcome @Buzzetta

[VintageComics]

On 11/14/2023 at 5:19 PM, Axelrod said:

It was also completely inoffensive. 

That may actually be part of the problem. The last few years we've neutered humor, horror, drama, sex, literally everything and have quite literally cut off our noses to spite our faces. 

By removing the ability to draw emotion out of people (good AND bad), we've removed artist's ability to create compelling content. 

Anger, offense, aggression, insult - those things all serve a purpose in the real world and if you completely erase them, you erase the contrast that helps us appreciate the good. 

Give me a good George Carlin joke any day over something soulless from the last 5 years. 

People need to face their fears, not avoid them or they will not only stop growing, they will start regressing. 

Edited November 15, 2023 by VintageComics

[VintageComics]

On 11/14/2023 at 5:37 PM, jsilverjanet said:

not sure if you got the memo but I was told the tide had turned, and opposition had been destroyed. you are wasting your time, two people seem to have figured out the problems with the MCU and are now going to cure cancer (Hustruck) and build a 40 foot fire pit (copperagekids) to celebrate

you're welcome @Buzzetta

I for one can say I'm happy that you're back to your normal function as the village clown (and that's a compliment).

Genuinely. You're so much funnier when you're being yourself. 

Edited November 14, 2023 by VintageComics