Anyone else over the Promise Collection? 6 6

[fifties]

CGC clearly doesn't grade according to Overstreet standards, in general.  Aside from the Promise Collection, I've seen books with brittle pages stated on the label graded as high as 3.5, which would be 1.5 by Overstreet, at best. 

Another thing, their standards seem to have loosened over the years, with books now grading higher with given defects than say 10 years ago.  Could this be a ploy to induce those with slabs to re-submit, in hopes of being rewarded with a higher grade?  Nawww, they wouldn't do that...  

[William-James88]

On 1/13/2022 at 2:39 AM, fifties said:

CGC clearly doesn't grade according to Overstreet standards, in general.  Aside from the Promise Collection, I've seen books with brittle pages stated on the label graded as high as 3.5, which would be 1.5 by Overstreet, at best. 

Another thing, their standards seem to have loosened over the years, with books now grading higher with given defects than say 10 years ago.  Could this be a ploy to induce those with slabs to re-submit, in hopes of being rewarded with a higher grade?  Nawww, they wouldn't do that...  

They were really harsh and tight on my latest submission. I don't think they have gotten looser in general. 

[Flex Mentallo]

On 1/12/2022 at 11:11 PM, fifties said:

Or is there fear that CGC will kick you off the board if you reveal anything they do with "unclean hands"?

 

[Straw-Man]

On 1/11/2022 at 6:22 PM, pemart1966 said:

I'm so broke I wish I had enough money to be cheap.  

you're broke?  i'd have to fart in my wallet to have a cent.

[Flex Mentallo]

On 1/13/2022 at 12:16 PM, Straw-Man said:

you're broke?  i'd have to fart in my wallet to have a cent.

Small change there, then!

[The Black Hand ®]

On 1/12/2022 at 4:11 PM, Joshua33 said:

Yeah, whomever graded that Gangsters can't win... well, I guess I don't even need to say it, but if I subbed that book, I'd be ecstatic with a 7.0

I now realize that I've owned a lot more 9.2s than I thought I did.

[Robot Man]

On 1/12/2022 at 7:43 PM, GreatCaesarsGhost said:

Why? Because I view you as a valued member of the board, and if you’ve given up comics, I hate to hear it, is all

Thanks. Yeah, I am talking about the Promise Collection. Again, not the collection it’s self because it is amazing. Maybe more about what has happened to it.

As far as comics in general go, still love them and always will. Nothing can change the essence of what they are and why I was drawn to them in the first place.

I have found my self stepping back or aside from adding much new to my collection. Maybe the hype, maybe what I consider the manipulating, and definitely the prices and the effect these prices have had on the hobby. The past few years have made me appreciate what I have collected for 50 years. Not really that much I really just got to have anymore.

But the “thrill of the hunt” is a serious addiction. Just when you land that cool book, you mount that trophy and move on to the next one. 

[Cat-Man_America]

On 1/13/2022 at 6:16 AM, Straw-Man said:

you're broke?  i'd have to fart in my wallet to have a cent.

And to think, with a little effort you could've been a man of wealth like gator or Mr B.!  

Edited January 14, 2022 by Cat-Man_America
emoji & air freshener

[jimjum12]

On 1/12/2022 at 9:34 PM, William-James88 said:

CGC is SUPER strict on soiling

... fixed that for you. 

GOD BLESS....

-jimbo(a friend of jesus)

[jimbo_7071]

On 1/13/2022 at 12:28 AM, lou_fine said:

You kind sir, have clearly forgotten that both Heritage and CGC in conjunction have conducted a full DNA spectral analysis of the rat chews and bitten off corners and have reached the scientific conclusion beyond a shadow of doubt that all of these rat chews and missing corners have been traced back to the body of a dead rat found at the production printing plant.    

And as all long time collectors should clearly know by now, all production factory and printing related defects on books are to be discounted and ignored for grading purposes.  

As for your so-called significant spine stress, must you also be reminded that spines, edges, corners, and staple areas are all above the pay grade of the CGC graders for the grading of this Promise Collection, as the grading of these parts of the book falls under the domain of the suits in the top floor penthouse corner suite.     

The graders used to all be guys like West Stephan and Phil Kaltenbach who were "comic book guys." Now that CGC has grown massive, they may be hiring random people with no comic collecting experience. Grading was never perfectly consistent—there have been head scratchers since day one—but the lack of consistency has gotten incredibly bad (as the Promise Collection shows).

Hopefully the restoration check is still reliable; that's really my only reason for buying slabbed books.

Edited January 13, 2022 by jimbo_7071

[jimjum12]

On 1/13/2022 at 1:08 AM, Cat-Man_America said:

It was such a small chew that the graders may have determined it to be micro-ratting.  Mice nibbles may be given a bit more more leeway.

It was a mama rat teaching her babies how to make it in the real world. GOD BLESS....

-jimbo(a friend of jesus)

[atomised]

Hi, my name is Peter and I buy and like Promise Collection books.

[jimjum12]

First, let me make one thing clear. My experience with assessing Promise books is much like everyone else's, looking at scans on Heritage that have been blown up to the size of one of Jupiter's moons.  Shall I also mention the pre-existing consensus on the accuracy of a Heritage scan? Best not, as that might be too much reality for one session. 

The one point for today is "staple rust" . I must warn you that I am also a "coinee" , and may use some technical terms that will "make Hulk's brain hurt". 

Staple rust, tape, and spine splits are a few of my least favorite things, so I have no bias that desires a softer treatment of them. In the interests of objectivity, I don't believe a difference between "RUST" and "PATINA" can be determined with consistency from a scan. There is, contrary to popular belief, a difference. People actually pay more in some cases for a coin with patina. Staples may not apply ? GOD BLESS...

-jimbo(a friend of jesus)

Edited January 13, 2022 by jimjum12

[William-James88]

On 1/13/2022 at 3:01 PM, jimjum12 said:

... fixed that for you. 

GOD BLESS....

-jimbo(a friend of jesus)

Haha, so true. Take care man!

[zosocane]

I will never get over the Promise books.  Many of the books from the first few auctions were total face-melters, especially the Timelys which we've never seen (at least I haven't) in those grades.  Tons of white-pager 9.4s, 9.6s and 9.8s on GA books we just never see come to market.  Overgraded and manipulated with a press?  Ok.  Knock it down a grade or two, these are still killer books, and you have to ask whether we will see anything like this again.  Then there is the underlying story, which is almost up there with Ms. Okajima's. 

The PL 17 is my favorite.  It is ... indescribable.  This is why we collect, why we hunt, why we love the hobby.

[jimbo_7071]

On 1/13/2022 at 2:59 AM, William-James88 said:

They were really harsh and tight on my latest submission. I don't think they have gotten looser in general. 

On my last submission (early last year), the grading was tight but the evaluation of page quality was generous on a couple of the books.

I know that they relaxed their page-quality standards around the end of 2005; I wonder whether they've done it again.

I don't want to crack out the Promise books that I bought—suffice to say that I would not get the same grades on a resubmission—but I might try to pick up an inexpensive raw one at some point so I can check out the page quality for myself.

[jimjum12]

On 1/13/2022 at 7:36 PM, jimbo_7071 said:

On my last submission (early last year), the grading was tight but the evaluation of page quality was generous on a couple of the books.

I know that they relaxed their page-quality standards around the end of 2005; I wonder whether they've done it again.

I don't want to crack out the Promise books that I bought—suffice to say that I would not get the same grades on a resubmission—but I might try to pick up an inexpensive raw one at some point so I can check out the page quality for myself.

A lot of people use a grading curve for PQ with GA books. I remember when I was MUCH younger, my friend Wayne had a Cap run on consignment, most with decent PQ. Leo said, " You wanna see a Golden Age book that really does have White pages ?" .... of course ... he pulled out a Cap 62 in 9.0 or so and the pages looked Baxter white. That's what you should get when you de-slab a white pager ... anything less isn't cool. I always thought an extra tier of PQ was necessary for GA and SA. WAY too many books are undeserving of "White". GOD BLESS...

-jimbo(a friend of jesus)

Edited January 14, 2022 by jimjum12

[jimbo_7071]

On 1/13/2022 at 7:54 PM, jimjum12 said:

A lot of people use a grading curve for PQ with GA books. I remember when I was MUCH younger, my friend Wayne had a Cap run on consignment, most with decent PQ. Leo said, " You wanna see a Golden Age book that really does have White pages ?" .... of course ... he pulled out a Cap 62 in 9.0 or so and the pages looked Baxter white. That's what you should get when you de-slab a white pager ... anything less isn't cool. I always thought an extra tier of PQ was necessary for GA and SA. GOD BLESS...

-jimbo(a friend of jesus)

To me, white means OWL 10. (Are you talking about Baxter paper? WAY back when I still collected moderns I had a run of Omega Men, and I think those might have been on Baxter paper.)

I know someone is going to chime in that page quality is about suppleness, not color, but from what I've seen, the correlation is extremely high.

[jimjum12]

On 1/13/2022 at 9:38 PM, jimbo_7071 said:

To me, white means OWL 10. (Are you talking about Baxter paper? WAY back when I still collected moderns I had a run of Omega Men, and I think those might have been on Baxter paper.)

I know someone is going to chime in that page quality is about suppleness, not color, but from what I've seen, the correlation is extremely high.

Page Quality will be about suppleness when the top designation is SUPPLE rather than WHITE  

Baxter paper was a big thing then... your memory serves you well. To me, the biggest hole in the PQ facade is when a book receives White, yet the inside cover is light tan to cream. I found that often when I de-slabbed them. I hear they've tightened up, but I have no "first-hand" experience in the last two years ... the newer slabs are a beyotch to open and it's easy to damage a book in the process. GOD BLESS...

-jimbo(a friend of jesus)

[jimbo_7071]

On 1/13/2022 at 9:52 PM, jimjum12 said:

Page Quality will be about suppleness when the top designation is SUPPLE rather than WHITE  

Baxter paper was a big thing then... your memory serves you well. To me, the biggest hole in the PQ facade is when a book receives White, yet the inside cover is light tan to cream. I found that often when I de-slabbed them. I hear they've tightened up, but I have no "first-hand" experience in the last two years ... the newer slabs are a beyotch to open and it's easy to damage a book in the process. GOD BLESS...

-jimbo(a friend of jesus)

I know what you mean; I don't think covers are included in the page quality designation. One would hope that tanning of the covers would be mentioned in the graders' notes.

The cover stock on a given book may age differently than the newsprint used for that book, so I suppose you could have a book with OWL 10 pages and tanning inside the covers. I've had some Dells with fairly nice pages and VERY dark tanning on the inside covers. I'm  not exactly sure why that happens.