CGC has to modernize grading and improve turnaround times! 2 2

[Randall Ries]

On 1/17/2022 at 4:44 PM, 68redlines73 said:

My observations would indicate that your suggestion would seriously damage the CGC brand.

CGC is doing just fine damaging their brand. If they weren't, there wouldn't be so many threads here on A FAN SITE demonstrating it.

I USED to think scanning the front an back covers would help with grading but can we imagine the uproar if grading when hyper-tight? Scanner or computer, either will pick up marks and ticks that are usually passed over or ignored.

So, I have a question of my own: Since people keep saying: "CGC is trying to address these TAT issues" (Trying isn't doing), how long do we think is long enough where there should be clear evidence that they are smoking submissions now and returning them in - let's say for fairness - 45 days?  There are submissions that have been in CGC hands for a year now. And the complaints were there BEFORE COVID.

If it IS COVID increasing wait times, and since COVID isn't going to go away, then what is going to have to change the grading/TAT times? No help=no expedience.

Edited January 19, 2022 by Randall Ries

[theCapraAegagrus]

On 1/19/2022 at 9:46 AM, Randall Ries said:

So, I have a question of my own: Since people keep saying: "CGC is trying to address these TAT issues" (Trying isn't doing), how long do we think is long enough where there should be clear evidence that they are smoking submissions now and returning them in - let's say for fairness - 45 days?  There are submissions that have been in CGC hands for a year now. And the complaints were there BEFORE COVID.

They are doing. There have been multiple instances of people reporting that their submission were returned vastly quicker than expected. This is due to CGC testing out new processes.

[Kevin76]

Anyone else notice (I'm sure you have) that CGC has been hammering grades on Post 75 books?  I used to get 9.8 moderns all the time, now I can't get anything.  Brand new books, with a press....9.6/9.4/9.2 with no notes.   Unbelievable 

[68redlines73]

On 1/19/2022 at 7:46 AM, Randall Ries said:

CGC is doing just fine damaging their brand. If they weren't, there wouldn't be so many threads here on A FAN SITE demonstrating it.

As the CGC brand is primarily associated with a buyer’s perspective of their grading vs. their competition, could you be more specific about just what part of their brand has been damaged? I have my own perspective. Interested in yours.

[joeypost]

On 1/19/2022 at 10:00 AM, theCapraAegagrus said:

They are doing. There have been multiple instances of people reporting that their submission were returned vastly quicker than expected. This is due to CGC testing out new processes.

Not really a new process. They were simply pulling boxes out of rotation going to a new facility. The FIFO model at its best. 

[thehumantorch]

On 1/19/2022 at 8:00 AM, theCapraAegagrus said:

They are doing. There have been multiple instances of people reporting that their submission were returned vastly quicker than expected. This is due to CGC testing out new processes.

New processes?  Is that new process grabbing the box near the door that just came in rather than the box that's sat at the back of the room for 6 months?  If they have a new process I'd appreciate them using it on my year old submission.

[thehumantorch]

On 1/19/2022 at 5:52 PM, joeypost said:

Not really a new process. They were simply pulling boxes out of rotation going to a new facility. The FIFO model at its best. 

So FILO and LIFO?

[onlyweaknesskryptonite]

[theCapraAegagrus]

On 1/19/2022 at 8:00 PM, thehumantorch said:

New processes?  Is that new process grabbing the box near the door that just came in rather than the box that's sat at the back of the room for 6 months?  If they have a new process I'd appreciate them using it on my year old submission.

CGC claims to to be testing out a "new process". I suppose it's a matter of whether or not you trust them to be honest.

[Randall Ries]

On 1/19/2022 at 7:02 PM, 68redlines73 said:

As the CGC brand is primarily associated with a buyer’s perspective of their grading vs. their competition, could you be more specific about just what part of their brand has been damaged? I have my own perspective. Interested in yours.

Well, my perspective lies mainly with members here complaining. Some of the horror stories I have read. The damages and the high turn around times. It isn't that these problems just went away. They are never really addressed by CGC. Grading comics has become political.

At this point, I think CGC's mythical golden reputation is just that. A myth. I can pull dozens of grading examples from any 3 of the grading camps and show plusses and minuses. Anyone can.

Simply put - as a customer - waiting for almost a year to get my subs back isn't reasonable. From what I read here, nothing has changed. When more people begin to complain and it starts getting in the news, things might change. CGC isn't some magical talisman. Another company could come along and be better than the big 3.

[Randall Ries]

On 1/19/2022 at 8:00 PM, thehumantorch said:

New processes?  Is that new process grabbing the box near the door that just came in rather than the box that's sat at the back of the room for 6 months?  If they have a new process I'd appreciate them using it on my year old submission.

This is what I'm talking about. All the talk about "new ideas". The "OLD" idea is to get comics back into collectors hands. Perhaps there's the rub:

The duality between "Collector" and "Capitalist".

As a collector, my view of CGC is based on that. I send in raw books I want to have preserved and graded so I can keep them either as a fetish or an investment somewhere down the line.

As a capitalist, I buy tons of modern books and send in thousands of them per month (Don't really know how many a dealer would regularly send in). I want the 9.8 or even 9.9 so I can push them off on my customers and make money to feed my family or drug habit. Or my family's drug habit. This is my bread and butter but I am not necessarily a collector and my interests lie mainly in making money and less with the aesthetic.

As a collector, it's grinds my ash when I have sent in - say - A Batman 227 and I have been waiting for 8 months for it to come back. I get little help from PR because really, what can they do about it? Nothing much but tell me to be patient and they are "so sorry". Fair enough. They are the front lines. Just like any other business.

As a capitalist, I send in - say - 1,000 per month. If I gave it much thought, I would realize that I am actually part of the TAT problem, if not THE problem. But that doesn't matter because I am entitled to the same services that the guy like me - who sends in one puny book - is. In fact, I may think I have MORE entitlements because of the cash I am paying to get 1,000 books graded. The collector can just cool it. I spend $1,000's per year. He pays - what - $200-$300?

The collector loves the books and remembers a time he wasn't stove up with arthritis and addicted to narcotic pain meds. The books are a touchstone to something more valuable than money. They remind him of being young. Going to school in the late 1960's early 1970's and trading with the few friends he had. At the very dawn of the comic book collecting hobby. Or putting on his towel or bed sheet and beating the Hell out of a shrub that is a super villain.

The capitalist may have began there, but the love of money is far greater than such silly musings as that. The capitalist would prefer not to dig ditches or work at Denny's and so sells comic books online, mainly. He loves his business but perhaps the books are or have become simple product. To be bought and flipped. The capitalist has little interest or time dealing with sentimentality and a dollar is a dollar. So, if he buries CGC in "product" every month, why that has nothing to do with him. He is well within his rights as a paying customer.

So - as I see it - MY concerns and a sellers concerns are very different. I had a very wealthy friend who had 2 Tec 27's. One was on a shelf with her other books. One was on a dining room table. A cat peed on that one, ruining it. As a collector, I was mortified, even offended at her carelessness. And her attitude when she said "Oh well. I'll just buy another one." She was a weird hybrid of collector/capitalist.

I guess that's all there is to it, really. If I were to send raw books to CGC, I would expect them back within 30 days of receipt. No if, and's or buts. I would expect a company like CGC to be able to meet that demand. And not return my book a year later possibly damaged. It's a simple requirement. When CGC consistently does the opposite, that tarnishes their reputation in the eyes of a collector. They are likely deluged with books from capitalists. Modern stuff that is less important in the eyes of the collector. But valuable to the capitalist.

In this event, the "little guy" gets hammered as he always does. Even though he ha the same entitlements as the "Big Guy" who wants to make his money. What good is a new modern if he gets it back after the fad he was banking on has died away?

So, as a collector, I keep my raw books and try to grade them fairly. That's all I can really DO. All I need a grading company for is restoration detection. I am still capable of eyeballing a book and asking a reasonable price.

[lostboys]

How do you want your book graded? You can only have 2 of the 3:

 

Fast

Cheap

Correctly

 

 

[joeypost]

On 1/20/2022 at 1:10 PM, lostboys said:

How do you want your book graded? You can only have 2 of the 3:

 

Fast

Cheap

Correctly

 

 

Correctly

fast

cheap

 

for me. 

[Topnotchman]

This is from November 15th press release. All I know is I continue to have orders shipping out of order by months.  I have three modern fast tracks from November and December 1st that haven’t moved. While others ship from January.  What do you think two months later on the “every effort” ?

 

Some customers have noticed that select submissions have been completed faster than CGC’s posted turnaround times. These submissions were put through the optimized workflow and, by December 2021, all operations will have fully transitioned to the optimized workflow. CGC apologizes that some submissions were completed faster than others received at earlier dates during the rollout of this optimized workflow. Our intent is to complete submissions on a first-in, first-out basis within each grading tier, and every effort will be made to do so going forward. Fast Track submissions will continue to be prioritized.

While expanding and enhancing its operations, CGC remains fully focused on maintaining the quality and integrity of our services. While significant headway has been made, a lot more work remains. CGC will continue to be as transparent as possible with regards to how long it is taking to process submissions and where submissions are at in the process.

[djzombi]

On 1/19/2022 at 10:52 AM, Kevin76 said:

Anyone else notice (I'm sure you have) that CGC has been hammering grades on Post 75 books?  I used to get 9.8 moderns all the time, now I can't get anything.  Brand new books, with a press....9.6/9.4/9.2 with no notes.   Unbelievable 

Yeah, I got a submission back yesterday that had a few books return as 9.0 when I thought for sure they would be at least 9.2 or 9.4.  
No notes.  
On the other hand, one key that I estimated to be 9.0 returned as 9.6..!  I give up.  
The no notes on the multiple 9.0 books is what kills me.  At least tell me what I missed.  It would also be helpful to know if the defects are pressable ones (e.g. the notorious "finger bends").  

[djzombi]

On 1/20/2022 at 2:50 PM, Topnotchman said:

by December 2021, all operations will have fully transitioned to the optimized workflow.

If we've been at "optimized workflow" for six weeks, then these TATs are the new normal.  Can't get any better when it's already "optimized."  

That's like "maximizing potential," right?  

[onlyweaknesskryptonite]

On 1/20/2022 at 7:02 PM, djzombi said:

The no notes on the multiple 9.0 books is what kills me.  At least tell me what I missed.  It would also be helpful to know if the defects are pressable ones (e.g. the notorious "finger bends").  

Did you have them pressed at CCS? 

I have been staring to notice they seem to be bumping those in house services and slapping any that were not. 

[SNiPER]

My last 3 submissions i received:

Sent 20 books STD tier, CGC received 11/5/21  CGC shipped 12/20/21 (45 days*) 

Sent 24 books MOD tier, CGC received 12/20/21 CGC shipped 1/4/22 (14 days*) 

sent 9 books EXpress tier, CGC received 12/22/21 CGC shipped 1/12/22 (21 days*)

* not counting days to get there, days they sit at CGC waiting to be entered into the system (received) 

and days to mail back.

Edited January 21, 2022 by SNiPER

[comicginger1789]

I have also thought about this and it really doesn't make sense. 

They grade the entire book. Granted a large portion of the time, one can guess a grade correctly from the front or back cover but for all the times people guess 9.6 and get 9.2 on a book, I feel that that is because they missed something inside (a bend, indent, small fold, minute tear) because they don't open the entire book. Now CGC should tell you about this (and that is another story regarding their lack of notes in many cases)...

So to scan every page, time consuming. It is also near impossible to detect certain restoration without handling the books (which is why the do handle them sans gloves)

I think the real solution here is to spend time hiring more graders, which takes time and again, I don't think anyone predicted the boom comics experienced last year or so. They were not prepared. All we can hope for is that they are now and are spending time ensuring that new graders are as consistent as the 20 or so they had. I should think about 50-60 graders makes sense. 

[Dale Roberts]

I think we can all agree we would like better turn around time and generally better more consistent grading. However, the suggested method is not the way. Hiring more people and training them accurately is the way to improve. The primary graders should function more as finalizers.