PGX on notating pressing on the label.....

[Rip]

Daniel Patterson made this announcement earlier on the STL boards if anyone is interested:

 

We are making several changes in the way we do things here at PGX, one of them being that any pressing that can be determined 100% to be intentional will be noted on the label.

 

Here's the full announcement:

 

PGX Announcement

The pressing is a step in the right direction. But as of now I don't know if pressing is a real problem with PGX considering CGC tends to get far more of the higher dollar books. Not to mention the problem with detection.

 

I think if I was PGX I would,

First hire a known name for restoration detection.

Second, give a list of all PGX books submitted by Elliot/Leder. Or at least track some of these books down to get them regraded. As some of us know, many restored books submitted by T Leder were missed by PGX.

Third , come clean about the doctored scan that was given in regards to missing the trimmed ASM book.

Forth, clean up their act on pg quality. There are some really tan PGX books that aren't noted "tan" on the label

 

If PGX followed these steps I believe they would be TRUE competition against CGC and the hobby would be a better place for it.

 

Above all I am most disappointed in their handling of restoration detection.

They REALLY need to address this, even more so than CGC. They have issues with questionable sellers T. Leder/R. Elliot/M. Adams/

Known on e-bay as ponytailblunder/ma4pres/etc.

 

Feel free to pass this on to Mr. Patterson.

[trevorlsmith]

thanks for the thoughtful reply.

[mica]

One question. What would be the harm if I were to convince 99% of the comic book collecting community that pressing should be disclosed?

 

Please think about the question....... What harm? Not really kicking down peoples doors here and stealing their presses, nor am I going to your homes and confiscating any of your books.

 

What would be the harm if I were to convince 99% of the comic book collecting community that pressing should be disclosed?

[nearmint]

classic opportunism by the competition. Folks were saying CGc was getting lax with their grading, ie giving gift grades to weaker books - CGG comes back with uber strict grading on the moderns, making them look like tougher graders and look like they are protecting the best interest of buyers. Now CGC "appears" to not have their resto detection in check and opportunists with anti pressing agendas jump all over CGC's stated policy, so what does PGX do? Appear to act in the best interest of the buyers again to secure/steal as much business as possible. Predictable and transparent

 

I agree that that's what they're doing, but I don't think it will work. They're shooting themselves in the foot. Any business they have from dealers will go away. Some collectors will want to know if their books are pressed, but the vast majority will not want to fork over their hard-earned dough so PGX can possibly label them pressed.

[Darthdiesel]

I'm counting the seconds when an Original Owner with some clout in the hobby will send in some virgin untouched high grade and PGX in their anxiousness to trump CGC, mislabels a few of them as "pressed" Even better, I bet they muck up the pressed call on a known pedigree book...

[nearmint]

Exactly. And how much value will their pressing notation have when it's found that they missed resto on a book that they labeled pressed?

[deathlok]

I'm counting the seocnds when an Original Owner with some clouot in the hobby will send in some virging untouched high grade and PGX in their anxiousness to trump CGC, mislabels a few of them as "pressed" Even better, I bet they muck up the pressed call on a known pedigree book...

 

They would just do what CGC does. "Ooops. "

[Darthdiesel]

I'm counting the seocnds when an Original Owner with some clouot in the hobby will send in some virging untouched high grade and PGX in their anxiousness to trump CGC, mislabels a few of them as "pressed" Even better, I bet they muck up the pressed call on a known pedigree book...

 

They would just do what CGC does. "Ooops. "

 

but no one would care either way to make a big stink about it

[esquirecomics]

classic opportunism by the competition. Folks were saying CGc was getting lax with their grading, ie giving gift grades to weaker books - CGG comes back with uber strict grading on the moderns, making them look like tougher graders and look like they are protecting the best interest of buyers. Now CGC "appears" to not have their resto detection in check and opportunists with anti pressing agendas jump all over CGC's stated policy, so what does PGX do? Appear to act in the best interest of the buyers again to secure/steal as much business as possible. Predictable and transparent

 

I agree that that's what they're doing, but I don't think it will work. They're shooting themselves in the foot. Any business they have from dealers will go away. Some collectors will want to know if their books are pressed, but the vast majority will not want to fork over their hard-earned dough so PGX can possibly label them pressed.

 

I say good for them. I would be inclined now to provide books to PGX when I have never considered it before, and I would encourage people to do so as well. They should distinguish themselves from CGC. Competition in this marketplace is only good for the marketplace. You guys should be applauding PGX for this stance instead of appearing to be so far up CGC's rear that I see your smiling faces through its bellybutton.

 

As Daniel said in his post, this was a topic specifically discussed in SD months ago. I had a specific conversation with him about taking this very position in order to widen the gap between the two companies so this is nothing surprising at all. Why do you guys have to be so negative about this? I find it amazing sometimes how defensive you pro-pressing people are.

 

Why is it fine for CGC to take a pro-pressing position as part of its business plan by something suspicious or negative for PGX to take the opposite position?

[VintageComics]

because if you knew anything about comics, you'd know that PRESSING CANNOT BE DETECTED 100%

I applaud Daniel for trying to take a road less travelled, but i cannot see how this'd work. You still now only get a small percentage of books with a pressed label, and some even erroneously....that makes it even more confusing....seriously...how many pressed books are out there? 10%? 30%? maybe 50% plus depending on the era.....

[esquirecomics]

PGX's policy is that if detected pressing will be noted on its label.

 

Guess what, this is CGC's EXACT policy on restoration also.

 

So what is the difference?

[FlyingDonut]

read your PM.

[VintageComics]

Because it is a LOT easier to detect other forms of resto than it is pressing (recent scandal notwithstanding, as there are many variables). Most of us have been handling comics for decades (just like SB and friends) and for the life of me i cannot detect pressing knowingly.I could be wrong and have no problem admitting it if so, but there will still be many pressed books without a pressed label and a few pressed books in an unpressed label. Prove me wrong.

[VintageComics]

Maybe someone with some more experience can speak...Abrams, Pov?

[nearmint]

classic opportunism by the competition. Folks were saying CGc was getting lax with their grading, ie giving gift grades to weaker books - CGG comes back with uber strict grading on the moderns, making them look like tougher graders and look like they are protecting the best interest of buyers. Now CGC "appears" to not have their resto detection in check and opportunists with anti pressing agendas jump all over CGC's stated policy, so what does PGX do? Appear to act in the best interest of the buyers again to secure/steal as much business as possible. Predictable and transparent

 

I agree that that's what they're doing, but I don't think it will work. They're shooting themselves in the foot. Any business they have from dealers will go away. Some collectors will want to know if their books are pressed, but the vast majority will not want to fork over their hard-earned dough so PGX can possibly label them pressed.

 

I say good for them. I would be inclined now to provide books to PGX when I have never considered it before, and I would encourage people to do so as well. They should distinguish themselves from CGC. Competition in this marketplace is only good for the marketplace. You guys should be applauding PGX for this stance instead of appearing to be so far up CGC's rear that I see your smiling faces through its bellybutton.

 

As Daniel said in his post, this was a topic specifically discussed in SD months ago. I had a specific conversation with him about taking this very position in order to widen the gap between the two companies so this is nothing surprising at all. Why do you guys have to be so negative about this? I find it amazing sometimes how defensive you pro-pressing people are.

 

Why is it fine for CGC to take a pro-pressing position as part of its business plan by something suspicious or negative for PGX to take the opposite position?

 

Mark,

Before you accuse me of being "so far up CGC's rear", "defensive", and "so negative about this", I suggest you read my post again. I offered no opinion on whether this is a good thing or a bad thing for the comics community at large. I only commented on it from a business perspective. It's my opinion that they will lose more customers than they will gain by this move.

Frankly, I think the "so far up CGC's rear comment" was way out of line. My opinions are just that, MY opinions. I'm not towing any CGC line. If I were the CGC apologist you make me out to be, I would agree with everything the company is doing, and I don't.

Be fair, Mark. Not everyone that disagrees with you is "so far up CGC's rear". That's a VERY cheap shot.

[VintageComics]

Thank you. I was pizzed about it myself....and my night of celebratory activity did not help my response....hiccup

[esquirecomics]

classic opportunism by the competition. Folks were saying CGc was getting lax with their grading, ie giving gift grades to weaker books - CGG comes back with uber strict grading on the moderns, making them look like tougher graders and look like they are protecting the best interest of buyers. Now CGC "appears" to not have their resto detection in check and opportunists with anti pressing agendas jump all over CGC's stated policy, so what does PGX do? Appear to act in the best interest of the buyers again to secure/steal as much business as possible. Predictable and transparent

 

I agree that that's what they're doing, but I don't think it will work. They're shooting themselves in the foot. Any business they have from dealers will go away. Some collectors will want to know if their books are pressed, but the vast majority will not want to fork over their hard-earned dough so PGX can possibly label them pressed.

 

I say good for them. I would be inclined now to provide books to PGX when I have never considered it before, and I would encourage people to do so as well. They should distinguish themselves from CGC. Competition in this marketplace is only good for the marketplace. You guys should be applauding PGX for this stance instead of appearing to be so far up CGC's rear that I see your smiling faces through its bellybutton.

 

As Daniel said in his post, this was a topic specifically discussed in SD months ago. I had a specific conversation with him about taking this very position in order to widen the gap between the two companies so this is nothing surprising at all. Why do you guys have to be so negative about this? I find it amazing sometimes how defensive you pro-pressing people are.

 

Why is it fine for CGC to take a pro-pressing position as part of its business plan by something suspicious or negative for PGX to take the opposite position?

 

Mark,

Before you accuse me of being "so far up CGC's rear", "defensive", and "so negative about this", I suggest you read my post again. I offered no opinion on whether this is a good thing or a bad thing for the comics community at large. I only commented on it from a business perspective. It's my opinion that they will lose more customers than they will gain by this move.

Frankly, I think the "so far up CGC's rear comment" was way out of line. My opinions are just that, MY opinions. I'm not towing any CGC line. If I were the CGC apologist you make me out to be, I would agree with everything the company is doing, and I don't.

Be fair, Mark. Not everyone that disagrees with you is "so far up CGC's rear". That's a VERY cheap shot.

 

Fine, if I stepped over the line by including you too far into Darth's camp, my apologies. I do disagree with your opinion on the business angle. I think this is a brilliant move by PGX and frankly I hope it causes CGC to re-think its own position. At some point in time competition will emerge, whether it is PGX or some other company, and PGX is taking the right steps towards that way. It has a lot more work ahead of it and Rip has suggested some very good recommendations.

[FFB]

There are plenty of signs that a book has been put under several thousand pounds per square inch of pressure (+heat, moisture, etc.).. and that differs totally from books that were placed in a stack for years.

 

Vince, have you ever seen a dry mount press? If not, go to your neighborhood Kinkos and take a good look. They have soft rubber mats at the base that give under pressure. It is not two hard pieces of steel that crush a book like a vise. It would be impossible to deliver "thousands of pounds per square inch of pressure" to a comic book in a dry mount press. If you have a point to make, that's fine -- but why do you have to add misinformation to your posts? It only highlights the fact that you don't know what the hell you're talking about and muddies the discussion by giving other people the idea that a pressed book has been crushed, when it hasn't.

[FFB]

There are plenty of signs that a book has been put under several thousand pounds per square inch of pressure (+heat, moisture, etc.).. and that differs totally from books that were placed in a stack for years. Creases are flattened and quite noticeable, the book loses some of its elasticity and form, and the basic composition of the book changes quite radically.

 

A book with color breaking creases that has been pressed is probably not terribly difficult to identify. I understand that.

 

I guess my question is, how do you determine whether a book with non-color breaking creases, some waviness, etc...has been pressed.

 

What I understand from your post is that the book is stiffer after pressing, but could you explain in plain English what you meant by, "the basic structure of the book changes quite radically."

 

You may as well ask your mailman how nuclear fission works.

[nearmint]

Fine, if I stepped over the line by including you too far into Darth's camp, my apologies. I do disagree with your opinion on the business angle. I think this is a brilliant move by PGX and frankly I hope it causes CGC to re-think its own position. At some point in time competition will emerge, whether it is PGX or some other company, and PGX is taking the right steps towards that way. It has a lot more work ahead of it and Rip has suggested some very good recommendations.

 

We can agree to disagree on the business angle. I just don't see dealers or collectors rushing(and paying!) to devalue their books by receiving pressing notations. It just doesn't seem realistic.

 

Of course competition will emerge, and yes, Rip's recommendations are excellent. I'd add one more...improve the aesthetics of the label. It looks very cheap, and far less professional than CGC's. Presentation is an important part of a slabbed comic.