Severe Grade Drop after Signature Series Signing 1 1

[StillOnly25Cents]

thanks for sharing the pictures

that is unfortunate and you should be made right even though it is beyond going back and truly making this right by not having it happen

I stand by my original statement

Quote

seems unrealistic that 9.6 to 7.5 worth of wear and tear (especially the kind described by the grader notes) would have happened to a slabbed book from the time you had it until the time you sent it or even during shipping (and if that much damaged happened during shipping CGC should have notified you) so this is troubling since it does suggest possible mishandling at CGC

 

[StillOnly25Cents]

On 3/3/2022 at 4:40 PM, Comics Over All said:

What if the artist/writer caused the damage?

yes, that is certainly a possiblity

it would still be between the artist and CGC's responsibility in that case as the host of the signing to make it right

Edited March 4, 2022 by StillOnly25Cents

[StillOnly25Cents]

there are legal disclaimers and there is good faith

ultimately CGC will decide how they want to conduct business and customer's will decide if they want to do business with CGC based on their actions or inactions

Edited March 4, 2022 by StillOnly25Cents

[mlee17513]

On 3/3/2022 at 4:35 PM, StillOnly25Cents said:

there are legal disclaimers and there is good faith

ultimately CGC will decide how they want to conduct business and customer's will decide if they want to do business with CGC based on their actions or inactions

I think this pretty much sums it up.  I have kept the email conversation with CGC Customer Service professional and tried to explain logically that there was no way the original grade would have been a 9.6 with all of the defects now present after they opened it.  I have provided pictures and detailed submission info as CGC requested so we'll see what happens.

Lessons learned:

1. Always take pictures/scans of all comics submitted to CGC
2. Probably avoid sending in slabbed books to be opened by CGC for additional signatures
3. You can learn a lot from the feedback on these chat boards!

Thanks again for all of the constructive comments and I will post any updates regarding resolution of this matter.

[William-James88]

On 3/3/2022 at 3:52 PM, mlee17513 said:

I just received the slab back and it has obvious damage that was not there before. There is no way CGC would have graded the original comic 9.6?with these defects. I have reached out to CGC Customer Service, but so far they are hiding behind the signed Waiver argument. Hopefully they will come back with something acceptable. 

Do you have images of the slab before you sent it? CGC has made mistakes and swapped books in the past. Meaning that in this same signature event, 2 people sent in the same type of book and it got switched through all the handling by mistake. 
I don't know how common or uncommon that is (hard to tell in sig series when people all send the same book in similar grades), I just know that it happens and it comes out when someone gets  a much lower grade than expected. If the book was switched, the person who may now have a 9.6 wouldn't have much of a reason to tell CGC they got the wrong book back.

Edited March 4, 2022 by William-James88

[StillOnly25Cents]

^ W-J  - though not an exact science, given the OP sent in the book already slabbed and signed by Todd I would think they have a pretty good idea based on the sig placement, ink color, initial T and not fully signed Todd, possible requested FM sig placement, etc if it were their book or not

Edited March 4, 2022 by StillOnly25Cents

[mlee17513]

Unfortunately, I did not think about taking pictures beforehand since something like this has never happened in the 20+ years that I have been using CGC.  You would hope that they kept the original label with the comic after opening the slab, but who knows after this?  As far as Frank Miller's sig placement, that looks correct, but now you have me thinking about the location of the McFarlane sig... 

Edited March 4, 2022 by mlee17513

[joeypost]

On 3/4/2022 at 12:50 AM, William-James88 said:

Do you have images of the slab before you sent it? CGC has made mistakes and swapped books in the past. Meaning that in this same signature event, 2 people sent in the same type of book and it got switched through all the handling by mistake. 
I don't know how common or uncommon that is (hard to tell in sig series when people all send the same book in similar grades), I just know that it happens and it comes out when someone gets  a much lower grade than expected. If the book was switched, the person who may now have a 9.6 wouldn't have much of a reason to tell CGC they got the wrong book back.

Look at the shape of the damage on the top edge of the back cover? Look familiar?

[William-James88]

On 3/4/2022 at 1:12 AM, StillOnly25Cents said:

^ W-J  - though not an exact science, given the OP sent in the book already slabbed and signed by Todd I would think they have a pretty good idea based on the sig placement, ink color, initial T and not fully signed Todd, possible requested FM sig placement, etc if it were their book or not

You're right, I did not take into consideration the previously signed aspect (misread thinking the book was slabbed then removed from slab for signature event).

And yes @joeypost it looks plenty familiar

[mlee17513]

I don't recall any damage to the comic previously.  Also, I would not have submitted it initially back in late 2019 for Todd's sig if it was in this condition.  CGC has offered a complimentary pressing and re-grading of this comic, but since most of the damage is color breaking, I am not sure how much this would help?  Do you think that I should take them up on this offer or request some credit for future submissions?

[joeypost]

On 3/4/2022 at 2:04 PM, mlee17513 said:

I don't recall any damage to the comic previously.  Also, I would not have submitted it initially back in late 2019 for Todd's sig if it was in this condition.  CGC has offered a complimentary pressing and re-grading of this comic, but since most of the damage is color breaking, I am not sure how much this would help?  Do you think that I should take them up on this offer or request some credit for future submissions?

I'd go with the credit.

[joeypost]

On 3/4/2022 at 11:58 AM, William-James88 said:

You're right, I did not take into consideration the previously signed aspect (misread thinking the book was slabbed then removed from slab for signature event).

And yes @joeypost it looks plenty familiar

Based on what I know about comics and physics, it is highly doubtful the book was dropped to create that type of crease. Impact dents/creases tend to radiate outward and the crease on the back is mainly linear with a sharp upward trajectory nearer the spine of the back cover. Looks very similar to the shape of the inner well, especially the top edge where it has been sonically sealed. 

[William-James88]

On 3/4/2022 at 2:32 PM, joeypost said:

Based on what I know about comics and physics, it is highly doubtful the book was dropped to create that type of crease. Impact dents/creases tend to radiate outward and the crease on the back is mainly linear with a sharp upward trajectory nearer the spine of the back cover. Looks very similar to the shape of the inner well, especially the top edge where it has been sonically sealed. 

yeah, you can see where it starts and it's perfectly level with the opening in the well.

@mlee17513 I think you have enough grounds regardless of the disclaimer. The disclaimer is in case the grade goes down due to handling, but this here would instead go more into the warranty/insurance aspect that CGC has. I would contact them on the phone asap.

[StillOnly25Cents]

On 3/4/2022 at 1:04 PM, mlee17513 said:

 CGC has offered a complimentary pressing and re-grading of this comic, 

LOL, I'm sure they did

On 3/4/2022 at 2:27 PM, William-James88 said:

 

@mlee17513 I think you have enough grounds regardless of the disclaimer. The disclaimer is in case the grade goes down due to handling, but this here would instead go more into the warranty/insurance aspect that CGC has. I would contact them on the phone asap.

^ this

[Frank Castle 74]

On 2/25/2022 at 10:31 AM, mlee17513 said:

Has anyone else experienced this?  I resubmitted a slabbed CGC Signature Series 9.6 Batman/Spawn to have Frank Miller's signature added to the existing Todd McFarlane signature.  After Frank's signing, the comic grade dropped all the way to 7.5?  Was the book mishandled during opening?  Was Frank that rough when signing?  Or is CGC really that inconsistent with grades? 

It's my understanding that CGC will no longer guarantee your submission will retain its original grade; I forgot exactly where I read that. Among several other reasons, this is why lots of multi-signature books are commanding exorbitant prices. That is a huge grade drop; it's possible someone may have dropped or mishandled the book. I've been reluctant to send my signature series books for additional signatures. 

[Upgrayedd2]

I'm inclined to go with the option that the comic you received is not the comic you sent in. As in, they may have given you someone else's comic. 

[mlee17513]

CGC has offered $50 in credit for future submissions.  I have asked that my case be escalated and reviewed by higher Management so we'll see if any further compensation or admission of fault is received.  

[mlee17513]

This is the waiver that CGC will refer to if the comic comes back with a lower grade after deslabbing and signing.

[revat]

On 3/7/2022 at 2:20 PM, mlee17513 said:

CGC has offered $50 in credit for future submissions.  I have asked that my case be escalated and reviewed by higher Management so we'll see if any further compensation or admission of fault is received.  

additional compensation? maybe

admission of fault?  zero chance

[Gaard]

On 3/7/2022 at 8:21 PM, revat said:

additional compensation? maybe

admission of fault?  zero chance

yep