Sketch Cover Green Label 2 2

[William-James88]

On 3/8/2022 at 6:43 AM, theCapraAegagrus said:

The facilitator had paperwork that authorizes the sketch per CGC's COC requirements, though.

And they wrote as such.

[theCapraAegagrus]

On 3/8/2022 at 7:09 AM, William-James88 said:

And they wrote as such.

The way that they wrote it sucked, both in penmanship and in conveying to CGC that the sketch is legit.

[William-James88]

On 3/8/2022 at 7:13 AM, theCapraAegagrus said:

The way that they wrote it sucked, both in penmanship and in conveying to CGC that the sketch is legit.

They don't know that the sketch is legit. They can't attest to that.

How would you have written it in a way that confirms exactly what was witnessed by you if you had been the facilitator?

[theCapraAegagrus]

On 3/8/2022 at 7:20 AM, William-James88 said:

They don't know that the sketch is legit. They can't attest to that.

How would you have written it in a way that confirms exactly what was witnessed by you if you had been the facilitator?

They had the forms, so it's known to be as legit as any other sketch that changed hands in the COC.

I would write down the info the same as any other sketch. If the book was already sent to CGC the same as it was delivered to the facilitator, there would simply be the info on a CGC label. All that was done is that an extra encapsulation process was not paid for.

[revat]

On 3/8/2022 at 3:43 AM, theCapraAegagrus said:

The facilitator had paperwork that authorizes the sketch per CGC's COC requirements, though.

Yah but chain of custody was broken.  The artist sent the book and paperwork TO THE CUSTOMER, not to the facilitator or CGC directly.

 

 

[theCapraAegagrus]

On 3/8/2022 at 8:40 AM, revat said:

Yah but chain of custody was broken.  The artist sent the book and paperwork TO THE CUSTOMER, not to the facilitator or CGC directly.

I doubt that I'll be able to find the posts, but I have seen people get CGC SS labels by sending in the paperwork from the artist/signer themselves. CGC seems to consider the paperwork from the artist as just as valuable as a facilitator "witnessing" the sketch.

[revat]

On 3/8/2022 at 5:45 AM, theCapraAegagrus said:

I doubt that I'll be able to find the posts, but I have seen people get CGC SS labels by sending in the paperwork from the artist/signer themselves. CGC seems to consider the paperwork from the artist as just as valuable as a facilitator "witnessing" the sketch.

Yes, plenty of artists fill out paperwork to get the Cgc SS on their own sketches, and it’s done without a witness.  
 

I think we agree on that.

 those artists have to send the paperwork and sketch directly to CGC (or at minimum a Cgc facilitator) as part of the requirements for Cgc SS.  
 

that didn’t happen in the case of the OP.  The artist filled out all the paperwork, did a sketch, and mailed that stuff to te customer OP, not a Cgc facilitator/witness.  Then that customer, after having the paperwork and sketch for some amount of time gave the book and paperwork to a Cgc facilitator who witnessed the George takei signing.

you just can’t have a raw signed/sketched book leave the possession of the artist/witness/Cgc at any point or you lose Cgc SS.  The OP book and paperwork  spent time alone  with the customer.  
 

im not saying the rules can’t be improved  or there aren’t loopholes, but those are the rules.

[seanfingh]

You can't hold on to artist documentation, then get a bunch of signatures and later submit the artist paper work. You just can't.  It breaks the chain of custody.

The OP wanted what he wanted, and he clearly acknowledged that he couldn't do what he wanted to do because CGC would still be slabbing the authenticated sketch and it wouldn't be back in time for the Takei signing. The OP got exactly what he wanted, and he chose not to get the slab authenticated in order to get the Takei sig. It is not the subsequent facilitators responsibility and it is not CGC's responsibility.  The OP knew exactly what he was doing and either assumed the Artist's paperwork was a lifetime warranty on signatures, or he assumed that CGC would "do him a solid" and maintain the Yellow label.

As it is, the sketch looks incredible with the Yellow/Green Label - and the Takei signature, which is the important signature to authenticate, is authenticated. The system worked exactly as it should have, and the piece is amazing!

[ExNihilo]

This seems pretty clear cut, the chain of custody was broken when it was returned to the customer.  A less scrupulous person could have swapped out the sketch for something else and that's the sort of scenario that CGC protects itself from by having such a strict rule on chain of custody.  If OP wanted a yellow label, the book should have been sent directly from the artist to the CGC facilitator to George Takei to CGC Sarasota.

[Turtle]

Am I the only one that likes the look of the green stripe on the gold label for this particular book?  I think the whole thing looks terrific!

[rexinnih]

It does look pretty cool.

[alexanderjk]

On 3/9/2022 at 4:46 PM, Turtle said:

Am I the only one that likes the look of the green stripe on the gold label for this particular book?  I think the whole thing looks terrific!

Blows that the label doesn’t include the artist’s name, but the yellow label does look really sharp. Beautiful art and slab. 

[Artboy99]

as an artist that has had books CGC signature series authenticated I will add:

This would only have worked if CGC removed the book from the slab that had the artists signature series verified, then witnessed George Takei sign it.

So for future projects: Have the artist create the cover you are looking for, and have the artist submit the book themselves to CGC. They have to register as a creator with CGC first, then submit using the Signature Series document.

Now you own a signature series slab noting the artist's name and date they did the sketch.

Take said slab untampered with to a show that has CGC and George Takei. CGC opens the slab, and witnesses the signature.

Edited March 10, 2022 by Artboy99

[revat]

On 3/10/2022 at 2:56 PM, Artboy99 said:

as an artist that has had books CGC signature series authenticated I will add:

This would only have worked if CGC removed the book from the slab that had the artists signature series verified, then witnessed George Takei sign it.

So for future projects: Have the artist create the cover you are looking for, and have the artist submit the book themselves to CGC. They have to register as a creator with CGC first, then submit using the Signature Series document.

Now you own a signature series slab noting the artist's name and date they did the sketch.

Take said slab untampered with to a show that has CGC and George Takei. CGC opens the slab, and witnesses the signature.

Are you sure it wouldn’t make more sense to not read the rules carefully, then do it my own way, pay a bunch of money, hope for the best, then whine about it to internet strangers when it doesn’t work out?

[Dave Ryan]

Hey all, it’s me, the artist of this cover. The original plan was for me to attend the show and bring the cover with me. The convention somehow lost my application, which I had proof that I did apply. Regardless, they didn’t have me at the show so the best I could think of was to mail it to Wayne with that form. It’s kind of ridiculous that I’m not acknowledged as the artist. I provided my email and phone number and it’s more than just a signature. If it’s not art then is it a “marked” or “damaged” book? You can’t have it both ways. 

[KirbyTown]

On 7/16/2022 at 6:49 PM, Dave Ryan said:

If it’s not art then is it a “marked” or “damaged” book? You can’t have it both ways. 

In this case, this book received a Qualified label because it was marked under circumstances that CGC doesn't recognize as official. Other unofficial scenarios with other marks may have had different results, but this is what happened here. All that's certain regarding marks is that CGC will treat them however they decide to.

The book is graded a Qualified 9.8 because without consideration of the unauthorized mark it is otherwise in NearMint/Mint condition.

The situation appears to have gone how it was supposed to. For the desired result, the path would have been:

1. Registered creator follows official protocol required to create official marks

2. Officially marked book is transferred by official means to CGC for slabbing

3. CGC slabs book

4. Slab attends CGC Witnessed Signing

5. Book is officially removed from slab at Witnessed Signing

6. Book is officially signed at Witnessed Signing

7. Signed book is transferred by official means to CGC for slabbing

8. CGC slabs book

Sorry it didn't go the way you both had hoped.

Edited July 17, 2022 by KirbyTown

[Crops068]

On 3/8/2022 at 5:43 AM, theCapraAegagrus said:

On 3/7/2022 at 10:34 PM, William-James88 said:

I don't see it that way, they were just being honest. They can't lie about witnessing something they did not witness. 

The facilitator had paperwork that authorizes the sketch per CGC's COC requirements, though.

The paperwork he shows is for the artist to submit directly to CGC not for a customer to submit on behalf of the artist to a facilitator for another signature.

Chain of custody was absolutely broken and thus would be a yellow/green as given, see the two bolded parts below.

On 3/5/2022 at 5:21 PM, New Plan Comics said:

I had the artist Dave Ryan draw a cover sketch last year. Dave sent it to me with the required paperwork for his listing on a signature series cover. I then directly met with a CGC Authorized Facilitator at Awesome Con last year to get George Takei's signature on the book. I got the book back today with a Green CGC Signature Qualified Grade label. It has George Takei listed, but the only says 'Name & Sketch written on Cover'. I don't understand what happened. Has this happened to anyone before?

 

- Wayne Thomason