The Palos Verdes Collection on HA 2 2

[lighthouse]

Man I think I’m getting dehydrated drooling over some of these books.

So many keys. So many different pedigrees represented. I might spend two hours just scrolling through them.

Time to get some more water.

[Gotham Kid]

Awesome bunch of books put together over the years...

[atomised]

What is the Palos Verdes collection?  I see the auction but can't find any info on this collection.

[LDarkseid1]

One hell of a collection!! Link to it and some of the bigger books. When they’re all sold, should be somewhere in the 3-4 mil range I assume, give or take.

https://www.ha.com/c/search-results.zx?Nty=1&Ntk=SI_Titles-Desc&Ns=Price|1&N=0+793+794+791+792+1893+1577+2088&Ntt=palos+verdes+collection&ic4=SortBy-071515

Edited April 16, 2022 by LDarkseid1

[Professor K]

On 4/15/2022 at 11:11 PM, atomised said:

What is the Palos Verdes collection?  I see the auction but can't find any info on this collection.

All I know is  it's a town near or suburb of Los Angeles. There are a few Promise books in the collection I noticed.

[LDarkseid1]

All these insane auctions happening all the time between all the auction houses, plus whatever’s selling on eBay and it just amazes me how many big time spenders are out there. I wish there was a way to see how many people in the world buy vintage comics, and then section it off into various amounts. How many people buy books for like only $10K and under. people who tend to buy books upwards of $50K, then $100K, $500K and so on. With how global the vintage market is, there must be ALOT of buyers in the $50K and lower range. I mean I don’t know if it’s some number in the tens of thousands, hundreds of thousands or even millions, but must be a lot of people.

[jimbo_7071]

On 4/16/2022 at 2:53 AM, LDarkseid1 said:

All these insane auctions happening all the time between all the auction houses, plus whatever’s selling on eBay and it just amazes me how many big time spenders are out there. I wish there was a way to see how many people in the world buy vintage comics, and then section it off into various amounts. How many people buy books for like only $10K and under. people who tend to buy books upwards of $50K, then $100K, $500K and so on. With how global the vintage market is, there must be ALOT of buyers in the $50K and lower range. I mean I don’t know if it’s some number in the tens of thousands, hundreds of thousands or even millions, but must be a lot of people.

I don't think the number is on the scale that you're suggesting. I think it's a fairly small pool of collectors that are paying $50K and up for books. I would be surprised if there are even a million total comic book collectors worldwide. Maybe 10,000 people would be willing to spend $10K on a personal grail? I think the number of prospective buyers probably goes way down as the prices get much higher that than. I consider myself a pretty passionate collector, and I doubt that I would ever spend that much on one book. If I did, it would have to be an amazing deal on a personal grail.

[lighthouse]

On 4/16/2022 at 5:30 AM, jimbo_7071 said:

I don't think the number is on the scale that you're suggesting. I think it's a fairly small pool of collectors that are paying $50K and up for books. I would be surprised if there are even a million total comic book collectors worldwide. Maybe 10,000 people would be willing to spend $10K on a personal grail? I think the number of prospective buyers probably goes way down as the prices get much higher that than. I consider myself a pretty passionate collector, and I doubt that I would ever spend that much on one book. If I did, it would have to be an amazing deal on a personal grail.

One challenge with counting “comic collectors” is do you count people who own collections or just people currently adding to their collections? Lots of folks take breaks for years and later return, all while still owning the books they collected from before. I hear folks all the time say “I still have a couple boxes of comics I collected back in 19XX”.

But I would absolutely put the number higher than one million. I own a shop in a metro of half a million people with no other population centers within 40 miles. I have over 13,000 customers in my store database and over a third of those are in the system as a result of a comic purchase.

Even if you adjust for traveling customers making one-off purchases, getting to 1/3 of 1% of the US population being collectors isn’t a stretch at all. And that doesn’t even need a boost from Greggy and his friends north of the border or collectors overseas.

I have around seventy customers (that I know of) that own at least one $10,000 comic, though most of them haven’t spent anywhere near that much on a book, having benefited from time and inflation.

Now is the 9yo whose parents have bought 22 Sonic comics for her a “comic collector”? Maybe, maybe not. But I’m doing my part to give her a chance.

Your “10k wiling to spend 10k” might be close. That would put 14 in my metro area and that seems a little light but not crazy light.

How many are willing to drop six figures? I have zero clue. But I suspect that number is growing quickly. BlackRock’s investment in CGC, while a minuscule portion of their portfolio, sends a powerful message to the wealthy that collectibles are a viable asset class. Wealthy people follow what other wealthy people do. And the message that collectibles are a sensible asset class to participate in was just broadcast very loudly.

Folks with 8-10 figure net worths who never took collectibles seriously don’t have to divert even 1% of their assets into collectibles to have a massive impact. And if they buy anything, they’re going to buy quality.

For decades there was a perception right or wrong that for prices to go up you had to wait for people who already loved comics to make money elsewhere and then throw that money at their hobby. Whole different ballgame when it’s waiting for people who are already sitting on piles of cash to decide comics might be worth buying

[october]

On 4/16/2022 at 9:09 AM, lighthouse said:

 

But I would absolutely put the number higher than one million. I own a shop in a metro of half a million people with no other population centers within 40 miles. I have over 13,000 customers in my store database and over a third of those are in the system as a result of a comic purchase.

 

I have around seventy customers (that I know of) that own at least one $10,000 comic, though most of them haven’t spent anywhere near that much on a book, having benefited from time and inflation.

 

These points are interesting...and surprising. Especially the second. 

[lighthouse]

On 4/16/2022 at 7:17 AM, october said:

These points are interesting...and surprising. Especially the second. 

I don’t doubt that the $10k customer count is inflated and doesn’t scale with population the way the “comic collector” count does.

We have folks who drive 100-200 miles to shop with us. And I have a few who fly into town on business a couple times a year that are also part of that seventy. Folks who own $10k comics likely visit stores when they travel if they have reason to believe the store has good wall books. So that skews that particular count. A “regular” who visits me three times a year is also likely a regular at twenty other shops where they’ve found visiting worthwhile.

Edited April 16, 2022 by lighthouse
So many typos. I need coffee.

[LDarkseid1]

On 4/16/2022 at 5:30 AM, jimbo_7071 said:

I don't think the number is on the scale that you're suggesting. I think it's a fairly small pool of collectors that are paying $50K and up for books. I would be surprised if there are even a million total comic book collectors worldwide. Maybe 10,000 people would be willing to spend $10K on a personal grail? I think the number of prospective buyers probably goes way down as the prices get much higher that than. I consider myself a pretty passionate collector, and I doubt that I would ever spend that much on one book. If I did, it would have to be an amazing deal on a personal grail.

No no, I said $50K and lower, not up. I agree and am sure it drops massively at the $50K and up level. But I said $50K and lower. So people spending just any amount under that. There’s definitely an insurmountable amount of people spending upwards of $1K, $5K, $10K, $25K and up to $50K on comics, when taking that total range into account. There’s no way the amount of books that get bought in that level, that range is in the hundreds or thousands of collectors. At the very least it’s 10’s of thousands at that level of buying.

[Robot Man]

On 4/15/2022 at 10:03 PM, Professor K said:

All I know is  it's a town near or suburb of Los Angeles. There are a few Promise books in the collection I noticed.

Yes, it is a wealthier area close to the ocean. Whomever it is might be a quiet under the radar collector. I have bought and sold on eBay to a guy from there for years. Not books of this magnitude but some rare and obscure WWII era books. 

And no, it isn’t David Arnold, Carbo’s pal who sells on eBay.

Does HA offer any back story to this “collection”? 

Edited April 16, 2022 by Robot Man

[EastEnd1]

On 4/16/2022 at 10:17 AM, october said:

These points are interesting...and surprising. Especially the second. 

In today's market, I'm not sure that it's that unusual to own a $10k book... if you bought a reasonably high grade IH181 or GSX1 or X-Men 94 back in the day, let alone the hundreds, if not thousands, of other keys that were more accessible prior to say 2000 or 2010, and were astute or lucky enough (or in my case anal enough) to hold onto them, you'd have a $10k book.  I bought a raw file copy Chamber of Chills #19 off eBay around 2005 for $300... it's a likely 9.0 graded and worth God knows how much today.  This is just one small example... I'm sure there are A LOT of other collectors that can give similar stories.

[MattTheDuck]

On 4/16/2022 at 8:41 AM, EastEnd1 said:

In today's market, I'm not sure that it's that unusual to own a $10k book... if you bought a reasonably high grade IH181 or GSX1 or X-Men 94 back in the day, let alone the hundreds, if not thousands, of other keys that were more accessible prior to say 2000 or 2010, and were astute or lucky enough (or in my case anal enough) to hold onto them, you'd have a $10k book.  I bought a raw file copy Chamber of Chills #19 off eBay around 2005 for $300... it's a likely 9.0 graded and worth God knows how much today.  This is just one small example... I'm sure there are A LOT of other collectors that can give similar stories.

"Have purchased a $10k+ book in the past 12 months" would be a lot more illuminating statistic.  Accidently ending up with a really valuable book is quite different from actively looking to acquire them.

 

[EastEnd1]

On 4/16/2022 at 11:59 AM, MattTheDuck said:

"Have purchased a $10k+ book in the past 12 months" would be a lot more illuminating statistic.  Accidently ending up with a really valuable book is quite different from actively looking to acquire them.

Agreed... spending $10k+ is a very different animal than "lucking into" a $10k book.  Though even here, I think spending that kind of money is less uncommon, particularly for the old school collector that can easily sell a hyper-inflated book to acquire a more desired hyper-inflated book.  I think the current market easily reflects that this is happening a lot.  Spending NEW MONEY on a $10k+ book I'd agree is still isolated to a select group of collectors.    

[october]

On 4/16/2022 at 10:41 AM, EastEnd1 said:

In today's market, I'm not sure that it's that unusual to own a $10k book... if you bought a reasonably high grade IH181 or GSX1 or X-Men 94 back in the day, let alone the hundreds, if not thousands, of other keys that were more accessible prior to say 2000 or 2010, and were astute or lucky enough (or in my case anal enough) to hold onto them, you'd have a $10k book.  I bought a raw file copy Chamber of Chills #19 off eBay around 2005 for $300... it's a likely 9.0 graded and worth God knows how much today.  This is just one small example... I'm sure there are A LOT of other collectors that can give similar stories.

I'm not saying it's unusual to own a $10k comic. I was expressing surprise that a relatively new shop owner in a small metro area had 70+ collectors come into the shop that A) own at least one $10k comic and B) talked with him about it. That implies there are a LOT more than 70. 

I also bought a File Copy of CoC 19 back in the day. Mine was $190 and it's an 8.5, but I cracked it out since it was a cheap, under the radar book at the time. Glad I hung onto it. 

 

[EastEnd1]

On 4/16/2022 at 12:37 PM, october said:

I'm not saying it's unusual to own a $10k comic. I was expressing surprise that a relatively new shop owner in a small metro area had 70+ collectors come into the shop that A) own at least one $10k comic and B) talked with him about it. That implies there are a LOT more than 70. 

I also bought a File Copy of CoC 19 back in the day. Mine was $190 and it's an 8.5, but I cracked it out since it was a cheap, under the radar book at the time. Glad I hung onto it.

Got it... makes sense.  And well done on the CoC19!  Obviously astute, or lucky, or anal minds think alike!  Here's mine (not too dissimilar from yours)...

 

 

[sfcityduck]

On 4/16/2022 at 9:10 AM, EastEnd1 said:

Agreed... spending $10k+ is a very different animal than "lucking into" a $10k book.  Though even here, I think spending that kind of money is less uncommon, particularly for the old school collector that can easily sell a hyper-inflated book to acquire a more desired hyper-inflated book.  I think the current market easily reflects that this is happening a lot.  Spending NEW MONEY on a $10k+ book I'd agree is still isolated to a select group of collectors.    

Yep.  I've sold a number of $10K books, but the most I paid for one of those is $300.  I am not buying $10K+ books so far.  I can get all the collecting joy I want searching for interesting and unusual books, while staying out of the market for the books that take only money to acquire.

If you were first collecting sometime up to the early 80s, it is probably hard to not own a $10K book.  Really popular books, GSX 1 and IH 181, etc., have inflated beyond anyone's dreams.  No rarity to those books at all.  And the vast majority are not CGC'd, I"m sure, just sitting in some 50+ year olds boxes.

Edited April 16, 2022 by sfcityduck

[Aman619]

On 4/16/2022 at 10:09 AM, lighthouse said:

For decades there was a perception right or wrong that for prices to go up you had to wait for people who already loved comics to make money elsewhere and then throw that money at their hobby. Whole different ballgame when it’s waiting for people who are already sitting on piles of cash to decide comics might be worth buying

perfect description of where our hobby is currently....  This also explains our consternation of late at the prices being paid today.  Those of us who have been around for decades look at the people paying them as "out of their minds" because we have attachments to them at much lower values.  It like buying a coffee today and having to pay 3.50 when the "price" we expect based on experience is way under $2.  or a normal lunch at work breaking $20 when for years it was hard to crack 10 bucks.  Younger people today pay what things cost today!  New collectors pay today's prices because they have no experience of $1000 getting you a high grade AF 15 ... or even a Fine.... or even a lousy VG with chipping!

Edited April 16, 2022 by Aman619

[jimbo_7071]

On 4/16/2022 at 10:54 AM, LDarkseid1 said:

No no, I said $50K and lower, not up. I agree and am sure it drops massively at the $50K and up level. But I said $50K and lower. So people spending just any amount under that. There’s definitely an insurmountable amount of people spending upwards of $1K, $5K, $10K, $25K and up to $50K on comics, when taking that total range into account. There’s no way the amount of books that get bought in that level, that range is in the hundreds or thousands of collectors. At the very least it’s 10’s of thousands at that level of buying.

I understood your post. My point was that there are far fewer collectors willing to spend $20K, $30K, $40K than there are people willing to spend $10K. Even in that range, to number of prospective buyers is going to drop the closer you get to $50K.

I don't believe that there are anywhere close to 10,000 collectors willing to spend $50,000 on a comic book. There might be, and probably are, 10,000 willing to drop $10K on a comic.