Need Help Understanding the Grade I Received On Secret Wars #8 3 3

[Adrift]

Hey folks,

So I just received a shipment back from CGC that I had my presser, Avery Comic Pressing, submit on my behalf last year.

This is the first time I've ever submitted books to CGC, so I wasn't really sure what to expect. The other 9 books I sent in ranged between 8-9.6, which made sense to me, but the lowest returned was Secret Wars #8 at a 6.0. 

I'm not complaining about the grade, I'm more interested in why I received it, and what I can look out for in the future when submitting books to CGC.

CGC defines a 6.0 as: A slightly above-average collectible with a major defect and some smaller defects, or a significant accumulation of small defects.

The grader notes I got back for the book were:

light bends to cover
light creasing to cover
light spine stress lines to cover

I know it's hard to judge after it's been slabbed, but I tried to take pictures of anything I could think of that might be considered a defect. 

As far as I can tell there are no major defects on the book. Could it have been graded a 6.0 because of "significant accumulation of small defects?"

Thanks!

 

 

 

Edited April 19, 2022 by Adrift

[Axe Elf]

In the first pic of the back cover it looks like there is a circular water stain at the top right of the "II" in "Frogger II" that would explain it, but I don't see the stain in any other pics.

There's that color streak through the "S" in "WARS," a damaged upper right corner, and a handful of spine ticks, but a 6.0 seems a little harsh if that's all there is--it's just hard to tell in the slab what kind of bending/creasing they observed in the notes.

[gadzukes]

There are a few problems, but 6.0 seems really harsh to me too.  Look like at least a 7.0 from the pics.

[Adrift]

Oh, I'm sorry. I just looked at the back cover, and that's not a water stain, it was some sort of residue from the box or something. I even have one book that came back with what looked like a strings of plastic, when they cut the slab or something, stuck inside the cover. I blew off the back, and this is what it looks like now:

 

Edited April 20, 2022 by Adrift

[Axe Elf]

Yeah, I didn't see the stain in any other pic, but I was just trying to understand the grade myself... maybe there is interior damage?  But you'd think they'd put that in the notes... must have been pretty extensive bending/creasing.

[Funnybooks]

undergraded it seems

appears at least 7.0 if not 7.5

[The Lions Den]

Seems a bit tough, but the holder can disguise a lot of defects...  

[Lightning55]

Seems randomly harsh.  I would crack it out, have it pressed and regraded.  Could improve 2-5 grade increments with some luck.  Definitely worth a try, can't go down.

[grebal]

Agree that it seems undergraded.

Possibly that red streak down the last "s" was source of hammering - sometimes stains are overpenalized, in the estimation of many (at least based on what I've read here by members).

[AJD]

On 4/20/2022 at 11:43 AM, grebal said:

Possibly that red streak down the last "s" was source of hammering - sometimes stains are overpenalized, in the estimation of many (at least based on what I've read here by members).

I think that's a printing defect, and I'd be surprised if that was the issue. The small edge tear (above the Marvel box) probably had a role in the grade.

[rjpb]

Grade seems a bit harsh, but hard to see bends can knock the grade down. Some of those defects seem like they should have pressed out. What grade did it seem to you prior to pressing?

[Adrift]

On 4/19/2022 at 10:14 PM, rjpb said:

Grade seems a bit harsh, but hard to see bends can knock the grade down. Some of those defects seem like they should have pressed out. What grade did it seem to you prior to pressing?

I thought about an 8, but I'm relatively new to all of this, so wasn't sure if I was missing something.

[grebal]

On 4/19/2022 at 9:09 PM, AJD said:

I think that's a printing defect, and I'd be surprised if that was the issue. The small edge tear (above the Marvel box) probably had a role in the grade.

I've never seen it before, but I've only seen around 20 copies (though hundreds of images online). Bought and sold a few in past couple of years but that's pretty meaningless w hundreds of thousands copies (what, half a million in circulation?).

But I accept that many people know much more than I do, and appreciate the head's up - I'll keep eyes open for same defect on another copy.

[Dick Pontoon]

It's really tough for me to see problems through a slab, especially with reflections. First and foremost, I'd recommend scans and photos before you send any books off. It's just a good idea - you want to be able to document the condition in case any damage happens along the way.

I also have never seen that red streak on the "S" before. Was that there before you sent the book off? Looks almost like crayon. The upper right corner is bent and has some color loss. What's that piece of paper sticking out? Tear on an interior page? Looks like an impact ding upper left corner. There's a few spine tics. Looking at the back cover, the upper edge looks a little wavy to me. Did it get squished nice and flat by your presser? The upper edge of the front cover has a small tear, but it might be production related.

Structurally it looks nicer than a 6.0. If that red streak is foreign matter, we know that CGC doesn't take kindly to stains.

[comicginger1789]

Does seem a bit harsh. I can tell you that those bends seen in the one picture below the "S" in Wars are what are killing it. Yes the tiny top rip hurts too but those bends are likely very pronounced outside of the slab. Should they be graded that harshly? Perhaps not but colour breaking creases get hit hard and even these sorts of bends get hit hard. If pressed, it would smoothen out and likely get you the 7.0-7.5 that this book deserves.

As for the waviness that is also seen, this is either poor pressing or a result of CGC's new stupid inner wells, which squish the comic in odd ways sometimes, resulting in that effect. 

My biggest question though is the red in the "S". Looks like crayon to me. If it is a printing defect, CGC graded it harsh or perhaps viewed it as a foreign addition to the comic unrelated to printing. If it is a foreign substance, well I think that played a role in the 6.0 when combined with noticeable bends, spine ticks and tiny edge tear. 

Edited April 20, 2022 by comicginger1789

[theCapraAegagrus]

In the slab, it appears that it could be in the 7.0 range, but there could be internal defects that bring it lower.

[Adrift]

On 4/20/2022 at 7:45 AM, Pontoon said:

It's really tough for me to see problems through a slab, especially with reflections. First and foremost, I'd recommend scans and photos before you send any books off. It's just a good idea - you want to be able to document the condition in case any damage happens along the way.

I also have never seen that red streak on the "S" before. Was that there before you sent the book off? Looks almost like crayon. The upper right corner is bent and has some color loss. What's that piece of paper sticking out? Tear on an interior page? Looks like an impact ding upper left corner. There's a few spine tics. Looking at the back cover, the upper edge looks a little wavy to me. Did it get squished nice and flat by your presser? The upper edge of the front cover has a small tear, but it might be production related.

Structurally it looks nicer than a 6.0. If that red streak is foreign matter, we know that CGC doesn't take kindly to stains.

Thank you. I'll definitely take your advice to do scans and photos before sending books off next time. 

I'm almost certain that the red streak on the "S" is a print issue. I've had the book since 1991, when I grabbed it out of the dollar bin. I suppose it's possible that some child marked it with a crayon before I got my hands on it, but the entire time it's been in my possession it's been bagged and boarded.

The piece of paper sticking out of the corner is an interior page, but as I remember it, it appeared to be how the comic was cut from the press, and not a tear after the fact.

I don't know why the upper edge is wavy. I figured the presser should have fixed that before sending it to CGC, but I guess not. 

Thanks for helping out!

[Adrift]

On 4/20/2022 at 9:02 AM, comicginger1789 said:

I can tell you that those bends seen in the one picture below the "S" in Wars are what are killing it. Yes the tiny top rip hurts too but those bends are likely very pronounced outside of the slab. Should they be graded that harshly? Perhaps not but colour breaking creases get hit hard and even these sorts of bends get hit hard. If pressed, it would smoothen out and likely get you the 7.0-7.5 that this book deserves.

As for the waviness that is also seen, this is either poor pressing or a result of CGC's new stupid inner wells, which squish the comic in odd ways sometimes, resulting in that effect. 

My biggest question though is the red in the "S". Looks like crayon to me. If it is a printing defect, CGC graded it harsh or perhaps viewed it as a foreign addition to the comic unrelated to printing. If it is a foreign substance, well I think that played a role in the 6.0 when combined with noticeable bends, spine ticks and tiny edge tear. 

I believe what you're seeing is just a weird reflection in the slab. If you look at the full cover pictures, you'll see that there aren't any bends in that area. I had actually sent the book to a popular presser before he sent them off to CGC.

As mentioned above, I've always believed the red on the "S" was a printing defect. It's been on the book ever since I grabbed it in 91, but I suppose it's possible some kid got his hands on it before then.

Thanks for your input!

[Adrift]

On 4/20/2022 at 9:27 AM, theCapraAegagrus said:

In the slab, it appears that it could be in the 7.0 range, but there could be internal defects that bring it lower.

Yeah, that makes sense, but wouldn't they have mentioned internal defects in the grader notes?

[theCapraAegagrus]

On 4/20/2022 at 9:35 AM, Adrift said:

Yeah, that makes sense, but wouldn't they have mentioned internal defects in the grader notes?

Grader notes are more of a guideline than a comprehensive list of defects, but ideally they would be included in them. It's simply the nature of graded comic books that I always consider the interior may be why the grade is lower than the covers appear to indicate.