PWCC
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This is saddening news that CGC will be working with PWCC that is known for shill bidding and other questionable actions when it comes to selling of TCGs.

https://www.cgccards.com/news/article/10135/pwcc-announcement/

Desperate times call for Desperate measures I guess when no one is hardly submitting to CGC anymore. I really enjoy CGC product and services but I can not support this kind of partnership with scum like PWCC.

I'd like to see what other consumers think about this partnership. Thoughts?

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Appears Gary "Scissor Hands" Moser will have plenty of fresh work.

https://www.sportscardradio.com/gary-moser-pwcc-marketplace-card-trimming-shill-bidding-scam/

 

 

While PWCC does have a small cadre of defenders (usually those in league) they are dwarfed by those that have an ultra negative opinion.  As a result this partnership will keep many Sports Cards high rollers far away from CGC slabs. Perhaps those were not the customers CGC sought?

I'm a pre-1980 card collector and had been considering picking up CGC cards in hopes they would challenge PSA one day.  Now I will never, ever, never, ever, consider purchasing a single one of their Graded Cards. 

I wonder if with this announcement there is now dancing in the halls over at PSA? This cements CGC from ever challenging PSA's cachet. 

Edited by MAR1979
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Made me feel sick when I saw the announcement..

Like really? PWCC?? After what all they've done? I would NEVER send my cards to PWCC. Now that PWCC has a position in CGC, I am definitely thinking twice about my next submission to CGC. *sigh*

If I have to pay the premium and wait a 1yr+, so be it. Good thing I haven't sent my higher end cards to CGC yet.

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It's sad to see that this PWCC shill bidding rhetoric is still circulating.

I've used PWCC to both buy and sell hundreds of graded Pokémon since early 2018 and I've never experienced any shill bidding first hand. When they operated on eBay their higher-end auctions used to get frequently targeted by fake bidders (as did a lot of higher-end Pokémon auctions), but since their partnership with eBay has ended this doesn't appear to be happening anywhere near as often.

I believe that eBay's story about PWCC shill bidding came about after eBay learned of PWCC's plans to make their own TCG marketplace, and eBay fabricated the story to lessen the impact of people moving over to there - after all there was no reason for eBay to ever make that news public, let alone email it to everyone who had ever bought trading cards on eBay's platform. I think eBay has shaped this negative public perception of PWCC as a publicity stunt, and it's sad to see that this is still causing PWCC grief.

Finally in CGC's defence they've graded over 50,000 Pokémon since their pop report went live just over 3 weeks ago, so I don't think it can be said that these are desperate measures or that people aren't submitting to CGC any more - if anything CGC is doing very well.

I don't think CGC is devoid of things to complain about, but this partnership with PWCC certainly isn't one of them. I think this will benefit CGC more than it benefits PWCC.

Edited by PichuCollector
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Posted (edited)
On 4/29/2022 at 1:25 PM, MAR1979 said:

It means altered and trimmed cards will be slabbed by cgc. This taints all cards in CGC slabs. Now that PSA has tech which can finally detect professional quality trimming , PWCC needed to go elsewhere.

Smart collectors will stick with recent PSA slabs in which chances of a trimmed card is minimal. Note that i said "recent" as yes older PSA and all BGS carry far greater alteration risk. CGG going forward with this arrangement will be infected the highest.

As a new player on Sport Card grading scene this is a death blow to CGC positive perception for anyone who knows what games PWCC plays. Given PSA's new tech thist elevates their perception for many of the hobby's highest spenders.

in short term this will bring CGC bucks and larger bonus for some execs, long haul it dooms their card slabs to low rent status.

 

I don’t think you understand what’s going on. CGC still grades the cards in this setup. With the same grading process. Why would you ever think they would all of the sudden start grading things they wouldn’t grade before?

Edited by JohnBurke
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Posted (edited)
On 4/30/2022 at 8:18 PM, JohnBurke said:

I don’t think you understand what’s going on. CGC still grades the cards in this setup. With the same grading process. Why would you ever think they would all of the sudden start grading things they wouldn’t grade before?

"I don’t think you understand", those who are players in the Card game do understand.  For collectors it's not good news for certain less than honest selling entities it actually great news, they can go back to their old and until PSA's purchase of several circa 2020 and 2021 tech patents, proven tricks.

Explaining in detail will likley get me booted from this forum. PSA and net54baseball can be used for more details.
 

Edited by MAR1979
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On 4/28/2022 at 6:16 PM, GreatZong said:

Made me feel sick when I saw the announcement..

Like really? PWCC?? After what all they've done? I would NEVER send my cards to PWCC. Now that PWCC has a position in CGC, I am definitely thinking twice about my next submission to CGC. *sigh*

If I have to pay the premium and wait a 1yr+, so be it. Good thing I haven't sent my higher end cards to CGC yet.

PWCC sells more PSA and BGS graded cards on their platform than any other type of graded card. I don't get the point you are trying to make?

You don't have to send your cards to PWCC and can still grade your cards with CGC. They are still fully separate companies

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On 5/3/2022 at 2:49 PM, rhunnicutt said:
On 4/28/2022 at 6:16 PM, GreatZong said:

Made me feel sick when I saw the announcement..

Like really? PWCC?? After what all they've done? I would NEVER send my cards to PWCC. Now that PWCC has a position in CGC, I am definitely thinking twice about my next submission to CGC. *sigh*

If I have to pay the premium and wait a 1yr+, so be it. Good thing I haven't sent my higher end cards to CGC yet.

PWCC sells more PSA and BGS graded cards on their platform than any other type of graded card. I don't get the point you are trying to make?

You don't have to send your cards to PWCC and can still grade your cards with CGC. They are still fully separate companies

My sense is this:

He feels like PWCC as a company has a pattern of doing business in an unethical manner.  And as CGC is purposefully and deliberately choosing to enter a partnership with PWCC, CGC is possibly compromising its respectability and/or reputation within the collectible world (if not its' actual ethics), quite possibly compromising the future market for cards graded by CGC.  And as such, he is thankful he has not yet sent his higher end cards to CGC, as he has less faith in the future value of CGC graded cards.

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On 4/28/2022 at 9:16 PM, GreatZong said:

Made me feel sick when I saw the announcement..

Like really? PWCC?? After what all they've done? I would NEVER send my cards to PWCC. Now that PWCC has a position in CGC, I am definitely thinking twice about my next submission to CGC. *sigh*

If I have to pay the premium and wait a 1yr+, so be it. Good thing I haven't sent my higher end cards to CGC yet.

Now it's sucker bet to have vintage graded by CGC.  The ROI will be much higher with PSA.  Remember folks the reason PWCC isn't submitting to PSA anymore is the tech that will expose trimmed and re-submitted cards.  If CGC at some future date spends money to develop then implement their own alteration detection tech then I'm sure PWCC will look elsewhere.

Thou who lays with Dogs will get thine-self fleas or something thereabouts. 

 

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Posted (edited)
On 5/3/2022 at 6:24 PM, revat said:

My sense is this:

He feels like PWCC as a company has a pattern of doing business in an unethical manner.  And as CGC is purposefully and deliberately choosing to enter a partnership with PWCC, CGC is possibly compromising its respectability and/or reputation within the collectible world (if not its' actual ethics), quite possibly compromising the future market for cards graded by CGC.  And as such, he is thankful he has not yet sent his higher end cards to CGC, as he has less faith in the future value of CGC graded cards.

I get where you’re coming from but cgc grading before this is still cgc grading the same after, regardless of who pwcc is. It’s a separate entity/event. You guys can complicate it all you want with this and that conspiracy talk, but it’s pretty simple. 

Edited by JohnBurke
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Posted (edited)
On 5/4/2022 at 1:19 AM, JohnBurke said:

I get where you’re coming from but cgc grading before this is still cgc grading the same after, regardless of who pwcc is. It’s a separate entity/event. You guys can complicate it all you want with this and that conspiracy talk, but it’s pretty simple. 

Agreed. PWCC will simply send in professionally trimmed cards that have "fooled industry" experts for 2 decades, until PSA invested millions into purchasing a tech company and their patents, CGC/CSG without the new tech will simply grade them, slab them and send them out.  A win for everyone but those who don't want altered cards. Once day the tech will become common place, the music will stop, then all who purchased trimmed cards will be left holding a worthless CGC/CSG slab. Yeppers pretty simple.

 

P.S. Same too go for older PSA slabs of course those who have questionable cards in terms of alteration have been leaving streaks in their shorts for over a year now :)

Edited by MAR1979
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On 5/4/2022 at 7:27 AM, MAR1979 said:

Agreed. PWCC will simply send in professionally trimmed cards that have "fooled industry" experts for 2 decades, until PSA invested millions into purchasing a tech company and their patents, CGC/CSG without the new tech will simply grade them, slab them and send them out.  A win for everyone but those who don't want altered cards. Once day the tech will become common place, the music will stop, then all who purchased trimmed cards will be left holding a worthless CGC/CSG slab. Yeppers pretty simple.

 

P.S. Same too go for older PSA slabs of course those who have questionable cards in terms of alteration have been leaving streaks in their shorts for over a year now :)

I'm just curious how you know the exact technology that each company has? While it may be news that PSA is just getting this technology now, how do you know that CGC/CSG haven't already been using it? Certified Collectibles Group is a $500,000,000 valued company and you are assuming things about what tech they use. Do you have any proof of cards they graded that are trimmed? If not then your assumption is only that.

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Posted (edited)

Folks if you are buying cards to hold for the future you need to do all u can to avoid trimmed cards.  Do your research then decide if slabs graded by certain grading firms are worth future potential loss of entire investment. Any who advise you differentially are not being honest

Edited by MAR1979
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Posted (edited)
On 5/4/2022 at 1:19 AM, JohnBurke said:

I get where you’re coming from but cgc grading before this is still cgc grading the same after, regardless of who pwcc is. It’s a separate entity/event. You guys can complicate it all you want with this and that conspiracy talk, but it’s pretty simple. 

Conspiracy talk? Lmfao. It's proven fact that PWCC is a shady company. Just do a simple Google search. Won't change my mind that this is a bad business decision by CGC and it will change how people look at CGC and if they should buy CGC slabs or even send in cards to be graded by CGC. I know I won't anymore.

Edited by HomeGrownPoke1
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Posted (edited)
On 5/4/2022 at 2:01 PM, HomeGrownPoke1 said:

Conspiracy talk? Lmfao. It's proven fact that PWCC is a shady company. Just do a simple Google search. Won't change my mind that this is a bad business decision by CGC and it will change how people look at CGC and if they should buy CGC slabs or even send in cards to be graded by CGC. I know I won't anymore.

Yes there have also been prior convictions for some of their mgmt. As well as ongoing fed investigations. All are public record.

Whats next? Inking a deal with Bill Maestro?

Remember folks you need not touch a skunk,  simply being near you will absorb its full stink. 

P.S. The Tech Budget alone of my employer for 2021 was over 12,000,000,000USD that's Billions, not millions. My business unit received more than half of that.  "Certified Collectibles Group is a $500,000,000 valued company"  I guess in 2022 that qualifies as a nice little company?? :)

Edited by MAR1979
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