Book Sold With Missing Page - Who Is Responsible? 7 7

[thecollectron]

By the way, the first thing I do when I get a raw comic in the mail is count the pages and inspect them. I ask to inspect raw comics at conventions too, but I try not to be a pain about it. I learned from some disappointing experiences.

[Dr. Love]

These days the best you can hope for is to associate with like minded people that share your values. Minimal expectations doesnt mean a hellish existence, it leaves room for pleasant upsides and less victimization. 

It's also always interesting to see how an OP takes it when the board comes back with a consensus that doesnt match the OP's take.

 

[Sigur Ros]

On 5/9/2022 at 1:44 AM, Dr. Love said:

These days the best you can hope for is to associate with like minded people that share your values. Minimal expectations doesnt mean a hellish existence, it leaves room for pleasant upsides and less victimization. 

It's also always interesting to see how an OP takes it when the board comes back with a consensus that doesnt match the OP's take.

 

Should have seen his thread about women (and their assets) being "used" to sell books.  He was made to look dumb for lying about the women and then admitted he was running from that thread.  

I'm thinking he just makes up ridiculous posts to see what happens.  I don't think there is any truth behind them. Even this one was hypothetical according to him. 

[Sigur Ros]

On 5/9/2022 at 1:18 AM, thecollectron said:

By the way, the first thing I do when I get a raw comic in the mail is count the pages and inspect them. I ask to inspect raw comics at conventions too, but I try not to be a pain about it. I learned from some disappointing experiences.

I don't always, but sometimes when I get books in the mail, I'll check. Have returned a couple books for ripped/bent pages.  They're almost always for the PC anyway.  At shows, I guess it depends on mood vs how much I'm paying.  If it's decent money... I'm checking pages. 

99% of what I sell is unread books I bought off-the-shelf from childhood in the 70's 'til now.  So, there are no missing pages. 

Edited May 9, 2022 by Sigur Ros

[Math Teacher]

On 5/9/2022 at 12:44 AM, Dr. Love said:

It's also always interesting to see how an OP takes it when the board comes back with a consensus that doesnt match the OP's take.

So, in your opinion, am I taking it correctly?

[jimjum12]

On 5/7/2022 at 1:01 PM, speedcake said:

If this happened to me, I would consider myself to be fully to blame. It would have been I who did not inspect the book as soon as I received it. It would have been on me to contact the seller as soon as possible about any issues I found with the book.  

Sellers make mistakes, sell books with flaws they missed, and should be given a chance to rectify those instances but certainly within a reasonable timeframe and not after several months and the book having passed through multiple hands. 

This is well said. 

The main factor would be the terms of the sale. If the seller said, for example, ALL SALES FINAL, NO RETURNS ,,, then that is the expectation that you should proceed with. I've heard people say it is implied that a buyer requires unrestored and complete, but when a seller states "as is", that implication is no longer a given. I avoid "as is" sellers unless I know them. I know of dealers who will refund for restoration for as long as the buyer owns the book.... and that is an exemplary guarantee. Personally, I always thought that type of relationship was a bit one sided.... I mean, they guarantee for life but let's say the book is sold, unrestored for a huge profit at a later date.... yet there is no relationship in that instance.... kind of like having the cake and eating it too. Bottom line, study the agreement before diving in, if you have long term expectations, as they say, trust but verify. GOD BLESS....

-jimbo(a friend of jesus)

[Lord Gemini]

On 5/8/2022 at 9:06 PM, Sigur Ros said:

I would do the same. 

But one thing I don't do is check the pages of books I sell.  If there is a problem, send it back and I'll more than make up for it.  But my time has value and I don't get paid to count pages or check the condition of each.  I undergrade my auctions "just in case" I miss something... but that's based on a visual inspection of covers. Inside and out. 

I don't demand a seller I buy from do any more than I do. 

Same here. If someone asks, I'll count them, but otherwise, nah.

[Sigur Ros]

On 5/9/2022 at 8:53 AM, Lord Gemini said:

Same here. If someone asks, I'll count them, but otherwise, nah.

Yea, I'll definitely go through them thoroughly for anyone who asks. 

[lizards2]

On 5/7/2022 at 9:18 AM, Math Teacher said:

This a hypothetical situation.

Let's say I purchased a book on IG. When the seller listed the book, there was no information included about a missing page. I received the book, and I made a major mistake - I forgot to count the pages. Within a couple of weeks and without removing the book from its bag, I sent the book to Joey Post for pressing/cleaning. When Joey was finished with the book, it was dropped off at CGC. Between Joey and CGC, the whole process took approximately nine months. When the book was returned, I was disappointed to find that it received a 0.5, as it was missing page.

To me, the seller and I should both share the responsibility of this mistake. Yes, I should have opened the book up and counted the pages. However, the seller should have disclosed the missing page of the book prior to offering it for sale. 

In your opinion, how should this situation be handled? Should I have to just eat the purchase price and grading fees, or should the seller be willing to refund some money?

 

So, this happened to me here. I don't remember the chain of buyers and sellers, but I bought a book here and never inspected it. I subsequently purchased a better copy, and sold the book here. That buyer sent it to CGC without checking the pages, and there was a page missing (pin-up page). Buyer contacted me. I felt terrible, and I believe I refunded about 1/2 to 2/3s of the original price. The CGC costs were never a discussion, as the buyer realized he should have counted pages before shipping to CGC.

[comicginger1789]

I'd be upset here at the 0.5 result...but more at myself.

Depending on what I spent might determine my recourse. If it was a couple hundred, meh, I will learn from my error. If it was thousands, I might be inclined to try to contact the seller. Mention it and see if there is any recourse. Maybe the guy answers, maybe not. Maybe he offers something, maybe not. Maybe he tells me to pound sand. Regardless, I still would feel responsible. I always check my books from front to back when I buy. I flip through, checking pages and centrefold (a loose or detached centrefold is my nemesis and I always ask but have had several buys where they even said "yup its all good" only to receive and it is completely detached....these get returned). So again, I would feel responsible

Also, if it all left a bad taste in my mouth, I would just avoid that seller again. 

[Math Teacher]

I have gone through this entire thread, and I have counted 39 people who have told me that I bear responsibility for not checking the pages. Understood. I learned from a $500 mistake, and I will make sure that I count the pages of any raw book in the future. In reality, I rarely purchase raw books, but I let my desire to own this book override what I normally do.

It has been suggested that I am stupid and ignorant. I think the more apt description is "too trusting." I have purchased many books here, and this has never happened before. I should not have assumed that this would be the case forever.

I may be naïve, but I assume that a person is good until this person proves otherwise. I wouldn't have lasted very long in my chosen profession if I had gone in with the attitude that, in general, I should assume people are not trustworthy. I grew up on a farm where our house doors were always unlocked and where we left our keys in our vehicles all the time. This was common practice for all of our neighbors. I grew up in an environment where the people that I interacted with were all trustworthy, and I have carried it forward into my adult life. In my life, I would say a large number of the people I know were trustworthy. If the majority of the people I know are trustworthy, it's hard to start assuming people are not .

@Sigur Roshas accused me of being a liar and doing all this just to bring attention to myself. I cannot believe that people would believe that I would be willing to go through all this belittling just to gain attention. Some say liar, I say mistaken. I have made 3.9K+ posts since I have joined this board, and I think most people have been able to judge my character based on these posts. I hope that people will be able to see that I recently showed a poor lack of judgement, and not let my recent posts cast me as rude, ignorant, and misogynistic (I'm sure there were other adjectives used) forever.

Ronald Reagan said, "Trust. But verify." I will try to apply this to my purchases in the future.

I'm sorry for any recent problems I have caused, and I will strive to do better. I hope that you will can accept this as I intended it.

Edited May 9, 2022 by Math Teacher

[Lord Gemini]

On 5/9/2022 at 9:43 AM, Math Teacher said:

I have gone through this entire thread, and I have counted 39 people who have told me that I bear responsibility for not checking the pages. Understood. I learned from a $500 mistake, and I will make sure that I count the pages of any raw book in the future. In reality, I rarely purchase raw books, but I let my desire to own this book override what I normally do.

It has been suggested that I am stupid and ignorant. I think the more apt description is "too trusting." I have purchased many books here, and this has never happened before. I should not have assumed that this would be the case forever.

I may be naïve, but I assume that a person is good until this person proves otherwise. I wouldn't have lasted very long in my chosen profession if I had gone in with the attitude that, in general, I should assume people are not trustworthy. I grew up on a farm where our house doors were always unlocked and where we left our keys in our vehicles all the time. This was common practice for all of our neighbors. I grew up in an environment where the people that I interacted with were all trustworthy, and I have carried it forward into my adult life. In my life, I would say a large number of the people I know were trustworthy. If the majority of the people I know are trustworthy, it's hard to start assuming people are not .

@Sigur Roshas accused me of being a liar and doing all this just to bring attention to myself. I cannot believe that people would believe that I would be willing to go through all this belittling just to gain attention. Some say liar, I say mistaken. I have made 3.9K+ posts since I have joined this board, and I think most people have been able to judge my character based on these posts. I hope that people will be able to see that I recently showed a poor lack of judgement, and not let my recent posts cast me as rude, ignorant, and misogynistic (I'm sure there were other adjectives used) forever.

Ronald Reagan said, "Trust. But verify." I will try to apply this to my purchases in the future.

I'm sorry for any recent problems I have caused, and I will strive to do better. I hope that you will can accept this as I intended it.

The problem is, you're considering a seller who doesn't count pages as "not good" or "untrustworthy". Many sellers just don't think to count the pages. You're assigning maliciousness where there likely is none.

[Sigur Ros]

On 5/9/2022 at 10:43 AM, Math Teacher said:

 

@Sigur Roshas accused me of being a liar and doing all this just to bring attention to myself.

No. I called you a liar in regard to the other thread, which I explained.. In the other thread. 

As for your posts, after seeing what transpires, I did (vocally) wonder what your intent was. 

Not accusing you of anything there, and I apologize for coming off that way. 

[musicmeta]

On 5/7/2022 at 12:50 PM, speedcake said:

I think you are still somehow missing the solution.

If a seller doesn't say anything in their listing about hidden flaws, you can do two things:

1) ask before you buy the book. This gets the seller on record regarding the matter. 

then...

2) inspect the book as soon as you receive it and if you discover hidden flaws, immediately take it up with the seller.

You do not need to give up on buying raw books at all. This is an over reaction that is completely unnecessary!

Excellent points made.  I usually don't buy expensive raw books but I would certainly get the seller on record of making sure the book is complete....and I mean all of the book...ads, letters page, whatever else.

[Math Teacher]

On 5/9/2022 at 9:57 AM, Lord Gemini said:

The problem is, you're considering a seller who doesn't count pages as "not good" or "untrustworthy". Many sellers just don't think to count the pages. You're assigning maliciousness where there likely is none.

I see how you can arrive at this conclusion. Would it have been better to say that the seller was lazy or negligent? I just asked myself, "What do I so before I sell a book? What would I do if someone bought a book from me that was incomplete?" I know that I would do everything I could do to make things right regardless of the time frame, especially if the buyer can explain why it took so long to notice the flaw. Is it possible that some people could take advantage of me in that regard? Assuredly yes. It is important to me that people know that the book will be as described when they buy a book from me. That's far more important to me than worrying about someone trying to take advantage of me.

Edited May 9, 2022 by Math Teacher

[Math Teacher]

On 5/7/2022 at 1:27 PM, speedcake said:

I don’t know what else to say, comic books aren’t new cars.

And you are consistently insinuating that sellers are dishonest if you as the buyer discover, months later, hidden flaws in books you bought from them. This rather than accepting that mistakes happen.

I have spent more on a comic book than I have on the first several cars I purchased.

And I understand that mistakes can be made. I certainly made a mistake when I didn't count the pages. I guess I would wonder how you would feel if you made a purchase and the salesperson said, "Is this check good?" I would feel that the salesperson believes me to be untrustworthy. Perhaps that would be an erroneous feeling, but that is how I would feel.

[MattTheDuck]

This thread has been a real eye-opener.

[The Lions Den]

On 5/8/2022 at 10:02 PM, Sigur Ros said:

He said it was hypothetical. 

And I'm just asking for a friend...  

[The Lions Den]

On 5/9/2022 at 1:44 AM, Dr. Love said:

These days the best you can hope for is to associate with like minded people that share your values. Minimal expectations doesnt mean a hellish existence, it leaves room for pleasant upsides and less victimization. 

It's also always interesting to see how an OP takes it when the board comes back with a consensus that doesnt match the OP's take.

 

Well said...  

[Sigur Ros]

On 5/9/2022 at 12:30 PM, The Lions Den said:

And I'm just asking for a friend...  

Lol, I don't know what was up with the "hypothetical"... seems pretty real.