Readcomix Posted June 11, 2022 Share Posted June 11, 2022 Boardieland, what do we think the grade and label would be on this? I don’t think the cover was reattached, but it may be. But is wrapped/reinforced with a translucent wax paper on both sides of the covers, using tape. Book is complete and easily readable, cf detached. Any thoughts appreciated on this oddball! @Robot Man Bob, could this be the work of Pop Hollinger? Taping is similar but I’ve never seen the wax paper thing done on another book myself. Galen130, Raze and Mmanick 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mmanick Posted June 11, 2022 Share Posted June 11, 2022 (edited) My guess would be .5/1.0 blue label with the designation CF DETACHED/ TAPE ON INSIDE OF COVERS. Any thoughts on this one ? @jimjum12 @jimjumper-migration @ft88 @skypinkblu @thehumantorch@hatrik777 @kobra65 @jsilverjanet @Haljordanfan@jbud73 @Beige @echu @Retroheavy @bighairjer @Bighaley21 @joeypost Edited June 11, 2022 by Mmanick Raze 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robot Man Posted June 11, 2022 Share Posted June 11, 2022 No, not Pop's work. He usually used brown paper tape from top to bottom. Wrapped slightly over both sides of spine. Often, extra staples as well. I have a few in my collection but can't remember which ones at the moment. Readcomix and Mmanick 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marvelmaniac Posted June 11, 2022 Share Posted June 11, 2022 (edited) Considering that the book is in the FR 1.0 - FR/GD 1.5 range I do not think it will really matter. I have no real idea on what that paper is but it may be micro-chamber paper. From The Collectors Resource. "So why are the comic books not completely sealed inside? An article I found on the Library of Congress website gave a very good reason as to why paper products should not be sealed up air tight. "In the presence of moisture, acids from the environment (e.g., air pollution, poor-quality enclosures), or from within the paper (e.g., from the raw materials, manufacturing process, deterioration products), repeatedly cut the glucose chains into shorter lengths. This acid hydrolysis reaction produces more acids, feeding further, continued degradation." -You can read the full article on the Library of Congress website, here CGC adds a sheet of microchamber paper to the front and back inside covers of every comic book they encapsulate to help absorb those acids that are constantly being released from our comics, so then why can't they be sealed tight to keep the outside air pollutants and moisture from seeping in? Photo Courtesy of https://www.brooklyncomicshop.com/guide-taking-care-comics/ Well, in a communication I had with a representative from the company that supplies the microchamber paper to CGC, her response to the question of completely sealing any paper product in a sleeve (even with microchamber paper), was just awesome, "in the not-so-technical term as causing the item (whatever it may be) to “stew in its own juices” as anything will continue to age, certainly not as quickly, but with aging comes off-gassing various by-products of deterioration. If the package is completely sealed, there is no escape and a [stew] of chemicals form." Further to that, the chemicals may not all remain just as they are when released. That is to say, if by-product of deterioration A and B are both released, there is a concern that they will combine and form chemical AB, which may cause even further issues." She went on to say that "breathing, is the goal." Essentially all paper materials have a moisture content and sealed moisture along with the acids from the the paper and ink may in some cases accelerate the degradation of the paper. Interleaving paper, or "microchamber" paper that CGC adds to the inside of the books is designed to absorb some of the acids released by the paper in the comics, however if sealed air tight it could result in deterioration as well." Edited June 11, 2022 by marvelmaniac grendelbo and aardvark88 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Readcomix Posted June 11, 2022 Author Share Posted June 11, 2022 My numeric guess is same grade range as Nick’s but I’m not sure if it would get blue, or be tagged as amateur resto. D84 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Readcomix Posted June 11, 2022 Author Share Posted June 11, 2022 On 6/11/2022 at 4:23 PM, marvelmaniac said: Considering that the book is in the FR 1.0 - FR/GD 1.5 range I do not think it will really matter. I have no real idea on what that paper is but it may be micro-chamber paper. From The Collectors Resource. "So why are the comic books not completely sealed inside? An article I found on the Library of Congress website gave a very good reason as to why paper products should not be sealed up air tight. "In the presence of moisture, acids from the environment (e.g., air pollution, poor-quality enclosures), or from within the paper (e.g., from the raw materials, manufacturing process, deterioration products), repeatedly cut the glucose chains into shorter lengths. This acid hydrolysis reaction produces more acids, feeding further, continued degradation." -You can read the full article on the Library of Congress website, here CGC adds a sheet of microchamber paper to the front and back inside covers of every comic book they encapsulate to help absorb those acids that are constantly being released from our comics, so then why can't they be sealed tight to keep the outside air pollutants and moisture from seeping in? Photo Courtesy of https://www.brooklyncomicshop.com/guide-taking-care-comics/ Well, in a communication I had with a representative from the company that supplies the microchamber paper to CGC, her response to the question of completely sealing any paper product in a sleeve (even with microchamber paper), was just awesome, "in the not-so-technical term as causing the item (whatever it may be) to “stew in its own juices” as anything will continue to age, certainly not as quickly, but with aging comes off-gassing various by-products of deterioration. If the package is completely sealed, there is no escape and a [stew] of chemicals form." Further to that, the chemicals may not all remain just as they are when released. That is to say, if by-product of deterioration A and B are both released, there is a concern that they will combine and form chemical AB, which may cause even further issues." She went on to say that "breathing, is the goal." Essentially all paper materials have a moisture content and sealed moisture along with the acids from the the paper and ink may in some cases accelerate the degradation of the paper. Interleaving paper, or "microchamber" paper that CGC adds to the inside of the books is designed to absorb some of the acids released by the paper in the comics, however if sealed air tight it could result in deterioration as well." Thanks Marvelmaniac; it’s definitely not micro chamber paper; I had a bunch custom cut and insert myself in my GA and some later books. It’s some kind of wax paper, brownish and translucent. Definitely an amateur effort of some sort. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skypinkblu Posted June 11, 2022 Share Posted June 11, 2022 Looks like Parchment paper, the kind you bake cookies on. It's close in weight to wax paper and also comes on a roll...and some people actually have it around the house;) Definitely not Pop, although I think he did use green tape a few times. On the eBay chatboard, we had the guy (Buster 44 ) who first wrote about Pop in Overstreet, so we got to see a lot of books, I even had a few. Buster was a devoted follower Pop historian, if I remember correctly he knew him personally...he's now https://www.ebay.com/usr/flying-monkey-collectibles If anyone wants to write to him. Raze, D84, Mmanick and 1 other 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grendelbo Posted June 11, 2022 Share Posted June 11, 2022 Universal 1.0 Hard to say nowadays what will get noted on the label with the new policy. Thanks for sharing. The Lions Den, Readcomix and Raze 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zzutak Posted June 11, 2022 Share Posted June 11, 2022 I'm no baker, but it looks to me like oil from the added paper's coating has leached into the cover stock, turning it translucent. Is the tape attached only to the protective cover? Could the protective cover be removed without damaging the actual cover any further? Raze 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Readcomix Posted June 11, 2022 Author Share Posted June 11, 2022 On 6/11/2022 at 4:43 PM, skypinkblu said: Looks like Parchment paper, the kind you bake cookies on. It's close in weight to wax paper and also comes on a roll...and some people actually have it around the house;) Definitely not Pop, although I think he did use green tape a few times. On the eBay chatboard, we had the guy (Buster 44 ) who first wrote about Pop in Overstreet, so we got to see a lot of books, I even had a few. Buster was a devoted follower Pop historian, if I remember correctly he knew him personally...he's now https://www.ebay.com/usr/flying-monkey-collectibles If anyone wants to write to him. Thanks Sha; good call re: parchment paper. Even closer to that! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Readcomix Posted June 11, 2022 Author Share Posted June 11, 2022 On 6/11/2022 at 5:45 PM, zzutak said: I'm no baker, but it looks to me like oil from the added paper's coating has leached into the cover stock, turning it translucent. Is the tape attached only to the protective cover? Could the protective cover be removed without damaging the actual cover any further? No such luck Jay; it’s affixed. I don’t think it leached; it’s covering the front cover as well and is opaque but see-through. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beige Posted June 11, 2022 Share Posted June 11, 2022 Universal 0.5 I just can't see it getting a 1.0 Sorry. Mmanick and Readcomix 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kazoo Posted June 11, 2022 Share Posted June 11, 2022 I'd actually try to "rescue" the cover by removing the wax paper as much as possible, I guess you could make things worse but I'd still try ... even if the pieces of cover come apart I'd rather tape 'em up and enjoy the book that way than have to deal with the wax paper on top of the cover ...? Readcomix 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Readcomix Posted June 12, 2022 Author Share Posted June 12, 2022 On 6/11/2022 at 6:48 PM, Beige said: Universal 0.5 I just can't see it getting a 1.0 Sorry. Don’t be sorry; thank you! That’s why I posted it. I certainly can’t see any higher than 1.0, and I can easily see 0.5. While I have no plans to submit it myself, I’d love to have my head around whether it would get a blue or purple. I think it belongs in blue, but it is a lot of amateur fussing/taping and I don’t work in Sarasota, so who knows which it gets?? I’ve seen lots of old books with weird stuff but this is about as extensive as I’ve seen among amateur weirdness. Beige and grendelbo 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Readcomix Posted June 12, 2022 Author Share Posted June 12, 2022 On 6/11/2022 at 7:53 PM, kazoo said: I'd actually try to "rescue" the cover by removing the wax paper as much as possible, I guess you could make things worse but I'd still try ... even if the pieces of cover come apart I'd rather tape 'em up and enjoy the book that way than have to deal with the wax paper on top of the cover ...? I looked at how easily it might remove but it’s taped back and front around all edges so I’m not sure what would occur. I need to look more closely without inadvertently forcing it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterPark Posted June 12, 2022 Share Posted June 12, 2022 It's hard to keep up with CGC but I'd think purple 0.5... One of my favorite Caps; great book! Readcomix 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yorick Posted June 12, 2022 Share Posted June 12, 2022 On 6/11/2022 at 1:23 PM, marvelmaniac said: CGC adds a sheet of microchamber paper to the front and back inside covers of every comic book they encapsulate That is not true. I have only cracked two CGC books from cases, but both of them had NO microchamber paper at all. Not at the front inside, and not at the back. The Lions Den and Readcomix 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Lions Den Posted June 12, 2022 Share Posted June 12, 2022 On 6/11/2022 at 9:18 PM, Readcomix said: I looked at how easily it might remove but it’s taped back and front around all edges so I’m not sure what would occur. I need to look more closely without inadvertently forcing it. I'd leave it the way it is...a gritty survivor. grendelbo and Readcomix 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Qalyar Posted June 13, 2022 Share Posted June 13, 2022 I don't think this would be considered restoration in terms of getting a purple label. On the other hand, I do think there's a chance it would be returned to you without grading or encapsulation if the graders felt that the translucent paper "coating" would prevent them from adequately evaluating the actual cover. Assuming this got graded, 0.5 Universal. Some notation, probably about tape on cover, possibly something uniquely cheeky about the translucent paper "cover" being added. Who knows, lol!? In any case, I wouldn't try to undo this. The chance that the covers fall apart after this much mistreatment vastly outweighs any potential gain from trying to tidy it up. Readcomix 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Galen130 Posted June 16, 2022 Share Posted June 16, 2022 On 6/11/2022 at 3:29 PM, grendelbo said: Universal 1.0 Hard to say nowadays what will get noted on the label with the new policy. Thanks for sharing. Yup… grendelbo and Readcomix 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
