Random observations about Bronze-Age Batman 1 1

[Kripsys99]

For the last year my collecting focus has been almost exclusively Bronze Age Batman and Superman, with a further focus on Neal Adams covers. I thought I'd share some observations I've made during that time to generate discussion:

1. Bronze Age Batman comics, especially Adams covers, have seen some of the run-up in value seen with all things Marvel, but to a much lesser extent.

2. Conversely, while some of those Marvel books are now coming (sometimes sharply) back to Earth, BA Batman book prices seem resistant to the decline - possibly due to Mr. Adams' recent passing, or possibly because the books remain under-valued compared to their Marvel counterparts.

3. In a lot of cases, there just aren't a tonne of BA Bats books in the registry (compared to Marvel books of a similar vintage) - even for popular and valuable books. I often hear some collectors decry the large print-runs which DC put out in the 70s, but there's little evidence of that in the registry.

4. Some books are becoming more and more difficult to find in grade, specifically books like Batman 217, Batman 235, TEC 402, and Brave and the Bold 79.

5. Some books are almost impossible to find in grade, specifically books like Batman 221, Batman 222, and Batman 241 - they just don't come up that often.

That said, if anyone has a Batman 222 (8.0+) they're willing to part with, let me know!

How about you other Bronze Age Batman collectors? Are you noticing any trends? Any issues you're having trouble tracking down?

[Jesse-Lee]

Like most, I've felt that the DC books, but the Bat books in particular, have been undervalued for a long time. It did allow me to pick up a lot of the books I wanted in grades I could afford (think entry-level grades for me) - which, trying to pick up what would be arguably equivalent Marvel books place almost any grade out of my range. I'm mostly talking silver books there, like Bats 181, 189, Tec 359, etc., but also Bats 244 and 251 - and for me, we're talking 3.0-5.5 on the silvers and 6.0-plus on the bronzes.

I finally added a 'Tec 400 6.0 recently to my collection at what I thought was a decent price, because like your observations, I feel like Adams books will hold their value and hopefully continue to increase. I also lucked into a high-grade, nine-issue run of the Rogers/Englehart run that included 475 and 476 for less than $135. Higher-grade copies of 475 have continued to slowly increase.

I wonder if the dearth of higher-grade Bat books in that era is due less to the amount that exist but more to the amount that are put up for sale, simply because the Marvel books are more "bankable" or liquid - they sell higher, better and faster, so maybe people are sitting on the DC Bats stuff waiting for a value increase? That's a theory on my part, I don't know if the CGC census bears that out. I do see you say it isn't evidenced in the registry though, so maybe I'm wrong.

I also wonder if the bounce on the Bat books seems less in part because they don't have as far to fall, value-wise.

For me personally, I do still "need" a 232 and 234, but I probably waited too long to get in at the grades I wanted from a cost standpoint. I'll probably get in on those at an entry level grade and hope to upgrade in the future. 222 and even 227 are lower on my want list, but they are also climbing. 221 is still underrated in my opinion, but prices on that climbed sharply in the past year-plus.

Edited to add - From a Brave and the Bold standpoint, B&B 93 is my must-have. Mine is only a 5.0 CGC, but that's because I won it for $23 - it was a no-brainer for me at that price!

Edited June 21, 2022 by Jesse-Lee

[kav]

On 6/20/2022 at 8:01 PM, Kripsys99 said:

For the last year my collecting focus has been almost exclusively Bronze Age Batman and Superman, with a further focus on Neal Adams covers. I thought I'd share some observations I've made during that time to generate discussion:

1. Bronze Age Batman comics, especially Adams covers, have seen some of the run-up in value seen with all things Marvel, but to a much lesser extent.

2. Conversely, while some of those Marvel books are now coming (sometimes sharply) back to Earth, BA Batman book prices seem resistant to the decline - possibly due to Mr. Adams' recent passing, or possibly because the books remain under-valued compared to their Marvel counterparts.

3. In a lot of cases, there just aren't a tonne of BA Bats books in the registry (compared to Marvel books of a similar vintage) - even for popular and valuable books. I often hear some collectors decry the large print-runs which DC put out in the 70s, but there's little evidence of that in the registry.

4. Some books are becoming more and more difficult to find in grade, specifically books like Batman 217, Batman 235, TEC 402, and Brave and the Bold 79.

5. Some books are almost impossible to find in grade, specifically books like Batman 221, Batman 222, and Batman 241 - they just don't come up that often.

That said, if anyone has a Batman 222 (8.0+) they're willing to part with, let me know!

How about you other Bronze Age Batman collectors? Are you noticing any trends? Any issues you're having trouble tracking down?

I was stocking up on midgrade adams detectives a few years ago.  This has paid off as I knew they were undervalued.  Like 5.0s I got for around $10 a book.  #400-410.  the 400 was $20.

[Tec-Tac-Toe]

Thankfully, as concerns CGC graded copies of Bronze Age Batman and Detective Comics issues, I was able to acquire most of the Batman and all of the DC issues that I wanted to purchase. I upgrade the issues from both runs as I'm able, but some (e.g., DC 405 and 411: CGC graded 9.8 for 405 and 9.6 or 9.8 for 411) are selling for far (far, far, far, ....) more than I'm comfortable paying, even if they continue to increase in value, so no upgrade for those.

[Kripsys99]

On 6/21/2022 at 12:17 AM, Jesse-Lee said:

That's a theory on my part, I don't know if the CGC census bears that out. I do see you say it isn't evidenced in the registry though, so maybe I'm wrong.

Yeah, I meant to say the census doesn't show a tonne of these books in circulation, at least not compared to the similarly aged Marvel runs.

[Tec-Tac-Toe]

On 6/21/2022 at 8:19 AM, Kripsys99 said:

Yeah, I meant to say the census doesn't show a tonne of these books in circulation, at least not compared to the similarly aged Marvel runs.

I agree, as some of the issues, both Batman and DC, are difficult to find in the higher grades in raw and CGC graded.

[comicginger1789]

I picked up a lot of the bronze age Batties about a decade or so ago. Great prices then and still decent prices now for many. I agree though, higher grades on many are tough....most of mine are solid 5.0-6.0 range. I cannot say I have many from that era that are high grade except for Detective Comics 425 which I think might eke out 8.0-8.5

[comicginger1789]

On 6/21/2022 at 12:27 AM, kav said:

I was stocking up on midgrade adams detectives a few years ago.  This has paid off as I knew they were undervalued.  Like 5.0s I got for around $10 a book.  #400-410.  the 400 was $20.

Yup...I did the same. Still a view I missed though that I might want to scoop up sooner rather than later

[ADAMANTIUM]

I believe that I have all the "batman" Neals, such as #222, 227, 232, 234, 235, 244, &251. I didn't go below 7.0

The TECS though I am lacking.... I only have #395, 411, and a 412? I think, the one where she wants him to join her in the afterlife.

I I'd really love #400 &#405, and maybe also the jousting cover near those numbers. 

[Comic-Fan]

Thanks for sharing.  I know for myself and many others, Neal's Batman is unequivocally their choice.  That being said I've also noticed a surge in prices which at one time was reserved for issues 227, 232, 237, 244 and 251.  That's gone and in my opinion rightly so as collectors recognize Neal's artistic merit.  I recently added 221 simply for the cover alone, I feel it's his best on the run and outshines 227.  

Edited June 21, 2022 by Comic-Fan

[Kripsys99]

On 6/21/2022 at 8:22 AM, Tec-Tac-Toe said:

I agree, as some of the issues, both Batman and DC, are difficult to find in the higher grades in raw and CGC graded.

Yeah, that's the thing, even good quality raw books are exceedingly hard to come by.

[Kripsys99]

On 6/21/2022 at 11:49 AM, Comic-Fan said:

I recently added 221 simply for the cover alone, I feel it's his best on the run and outshines 227.  

 

Agreed, this is his best cover, and the value being imputed to the book recently is reflective of that. This is another book that is tough to get in grade. That said, Reece Comics has had a 9.6 for sale for $1200 for what seems like an eternity, and I can't believe it hasn't been snatched up yet (granted it's a weak 9.6, with CR/OW pages, but this book is tough to find!).

[Jesse-Lee]

On 6/21/2022 at 10:24 AM, GypsyGhost said:

Smart man. 222 is overrated imo.

Thanks - I believe that's the other part of the value issue of DCs vs Marvel. We're often comparing silver and bronze DCs that are "first silver age appearance" of a character vs a true first appearance, and even the true DC first appearances in those eras are often of arguably lower-tier characters compared to Marvel. In the case of Batman, a lot of the heavy hitters first appeared in the golden age. And even the ones who did appear first in silver/bronze (Batgirl, Ivy, Ra's, Man-Bat, etc.) don't quite compare to first appearances like Wolverine or Punisher overall.

A lot of the books we're talking about for bronze Bats are "keys" mostly because of their covers - Bats 221, 222, 227, 244, 251 are all great and favorites of mine, but none are truly "keys" from a content standpoint. You could make the argument that 251 is a key because it introduced a major change in the Joker mythos, but that also seems like a tough leg to stand on (see what I did there? ).

Edited June 21, 2022 by Jesse-Lee

[Kripsys99]

On 6/21/2022 at 12:11 PM, Jesse-Lee said:

In the case of Batman, a lot of the heavy hitters first appeared in the golden age. And even the ones who did appear first in silver/bronze (Batgirl, Ivy, Ra's, Man-Bat, etc.) don't quite compare to first appearances like Wolverine or Punisher overall.

A lot of the books we're talking about for bronze Bats are "keys" mostly because of their covers - Bats 221, 222, 227, 244, 251 are all great and favorites of mine, but none are truly "keys" from a content standpoint

I only agree partly with this. While Batgirl, Poison Ivy, Ra's, Talia, Man-Bat (or someone like Darkseid in SPJO) and the lot may not rate alongside the likes of Wolverine, they rank a fair bit higher than a lot of Marvel first appearances which have gone for inflated prices the last few years.

Also, characters like the Joker and Two-Face were completely reimagined - their "Silver Age" first appearances (after lengthy absences) may as well be first appearances, as the popularity of these characters today stems from their Silver/bronze appearances, not their Golden Age appearances.

I whole heartedly agree about the likes of Bats 221, 222, 227, and 244 - but you get Spidey "2nd appearance of character X in a new costume" (sarcasm) counting as keys nowadays, so it seems that anything goes!

P.S. - Love the Bats 251 pun.

[Kripsys99]

On 6/21/2022 at 11:24 AM, GypsyGhost said:

Smart man. 222 is overrated imo.

Totally agree, but damn if this book isn't: a) tough to find in grade (thanks in no small part to the lower staple issue); and b) jumping in price fast - I WAY overbid on two 9.2 copies in two consecutive ComicLink auctions, just to get it into my collection. The first was the better copy, and went for over $1400, the second was (in my opinion) a lesser copy, and went for $1700!!! Needless to say, I didn't win either.

Edited June 21, 2022 by Kripsys99

[Zonker]

I think as long as the market continues to value first appearances above all else, Bronze Age Batman is going to be at a distinct disadvantage.  For several reasons, some of which have been stated above: most of the introductions of classic characters in the Bronze Age were actually re-introductions or re-imaginings of Golden Age characters.  Also, for much of the 1970s, Batman was facing one-off criminals in murder mysteries or borderline-supernatural stories.  Not recurring characters that would spark interest in hunting down a first appearance.  

The big exception I think is Batman #232.  Ras al Ghul has staying power, and now that it seems Damian Wayne is a permanent part of continuity, Ras likely will remain so.  I know I'm biased, but I could see Batman #232 rivalling ASM #129 in price at some point.  

Edited June 21, 2022 by Zonker
ASM

[eastriver400]

221 is beautiful cover art. Great gothic cover.   I feel like 251 is the most significant. Just brilliant art, story and re-imagining of the joker.   Definitely took Joker from a campy clown to a sociopathic maniac. 

 

Edited June 21, 2022 by eastriver31400

[eastriver400]

On 6/21/2022 at 11:49 AM, Comic-Fan said:

Thanks for sharing.  I know for myself and many others, Neal's Batman is unequivocally their choice.  That being said I've also noticed a surge in prices which at one time was reserved for issues 227, 232, 237, 244 and 251.  That's gone and in my opinion rightly so as collectors recognize Neal's artistic merit.  I recently added 221 simply for the cover alone, I feel it's his best on the run and outshines 227.  

Beautiful book. The coloring is just spot on. Neal Adams had the greatest perspective and this cover is the best example of it. 

[Readcomix]

I think the 230 cover is vastly underrated.

[Brian48]

I collected BA Bats, especially the Adams related stuff, feverishly back in 2011-2014.  Overpaid for many of the books at the time and thinking I'll never recoup my money..  Looking back, those seem like real bargain prices now.