POLL: To add a new rule to the Forum Marketplace 6 6

[Domo Arigato]

A scenario came up in this thread that highlighted a potential problem area in the Marketplace sales threads.

The issue can arise when a seller lists a book that he is selling on consignment and/or does not physically have the book in hand.  I brought up the suggestion of adding a new rule to the Marketplace to address this.  Mike suggested starting a poll and he would consider going with the majority decision.  Please read ALL possible poll options before casting your vote.  This poll will end one week from today on 7-15-2022 at 10pm Central.

 

Note:  This poll is not perfect.  If any non-poll-creating jabronies have suggestions on how to perfect this one....please send them to me in a PM and I will flush them down the appropriate toilet.

[KCOComics]

It's a sorted issue and I imagine I know the situation that made you post the poll.  

There was a seller here not long ago that was trying to sell books he didn't have possession of.  His entire operation seemed like a mess and there were red flags everywhere.  So yeah, in that situation, I think it's a worthy rule.

But there are other long established sellers who have sold books on consignment without issue for a long time. And I don't want to see rules change for them.  I fear more rules will only restrict those established sellers more. 

And since we can't pick and choice who the rules apply to, I picked no rule change. 

[Domo Arigato]

On 7/8/2022 at 10:11 PM, KCOComics said:

It's a sorted issue and I imagine I know the situation that made you post the poll.  

Read the first line in my initial post. 

 

[KCOComics]

On 7/8/2022 at 11:20 PM, Domo Arigato said:

Read the first line in my initial post. 

 

Missed that! Yes, I would change my vote if I could. You should disclose if it's a consignment. 

[THE_BEYONDER]

On 7/8/2022 at 11:33 PM, KCOComics said:

Missed that! Yes, I would change my vote if I could. You should disclose if it's a consignment. 

Why does it matter?  If the seller has the book in hand, who cares whose book it is?

If a friend asks me to sell a few  books for them....I’m required to disclose that information?

[KCOComics]

On 7/8/2022 at 11:43 PM, THE_BEYONDER said:

Why does it matter?  If the seller has the book in hand, who cares whose book it is?

If a friend asks me to sell a few  books for them....I’m required to disclose that information?

 

What if there was an established seller who didn't have the book in hand? Someone who's sold here for years without issue? 

My point is simply, don't create rules that put restrictions on good sellers. It's creating a solution to a problem that hasn't been a real problem. 

But, if a seller is selling a book that he doesn't have, it seems reasonable to ask them to disclose that. 

[THE_BEYONDER]

On 7/8/2022 at 11:51 PM, KCOComics said:

 

What if there was an established seller who didn't have the book in hand? Someone who's sold here for years without issue? 

My point is simply, don't create rules that put restrictions on good sellers. It's creating a solution to a problem that hasn't been a real problem. 

But, if a seller is selling a book that he doesn't have, it seems reasonable to ask them to disclose that. 

In the absence of that upfront disclosure, I assume these  established sellers have the books in hand?

[THE_BEYONDER]

Why are we talking in code?  Who are we talking about?  Just tag those who you feel would be impacted so they can  join the discussion.   

Edited July 9, 2022 by THE_BEYONDER

[I like pie]

Last time I looked, pre sales were not against rules. Has that changed?

Edited July 9, 2022 by I like pie

[Buzzetta]

On 7/8/2022 at 10:38 PM, Domo Arigato said:

A scenario came up in this thread that highlighted a potential problem area in the Marketplace sales threads.

The issue can arise when a seller lists a book that he is selling on consignment and/or does not physically have the book in hand.  I brought up the suggestion of adding a new rule to the Marketplace to address this.  Mike suggested starting a poll and he would consider going with the majority decision.  Please read ALL possible poll options before casting your vote.  This poll will end one week from today on 7-15-2022 at 10pm Central.

 

Note:  This poll is not perfect.  If any non-poll-creating jabronies have suggestions on how to perfect this one....please send them to me in a PM and I will flush them down the appropriate toilet.

Now say it again in the madness of the Sheik... especially if you are using the word, "jabronies"

[MattTheDuck]

It seems to me that sellers would be anxious to disclose if there was an instance where they might not actually be able to deliver a book they put up for sale on consignment.  Now, I don't have any sense of how often sellers here take books on consignment, particularly from people they don't personally know and trust to deliver books if they'd made arrangements for a consignment.  I think the situation in the thread the OP linked caught everyone involved completely by surprise except the seller who reneged on the deal. 

I'd encourage sellers to think about which of these proposed rules might help protect their reputations (if they're taking consignments from people they don't perhaps know well and having the consigner drop-ship the books).

[Kevin.J]

I personally wouldn't want to buy a book that the seller didn't have in their possession, however I can see a problem with a seller outside the US sending a book in for grading and having to ship it home to then ship it back to the US after selling it.

[SeniorSurfer]

I've been following that thread and pulling for its positive resolution, which seems to be on track.  I think sellers and buyers here are more responsible, honest and professional than many found outside these pages ("adult" is the word I would use), so thinking about adding one these proposals may seem like gilding the lily.  Still I suppose that more information would help both parties and cut down unnecessary interruptions for a sale.  A buyer might choose not to take a chance on a book not in the possession of the seller, or they may just not want to wait for that extra step, while any information a seller can provide - normal or unusual - may help sell the book to the right person or at least cut out some added explanatory emails should things go wrong, thusly:  

1) Suppose the book's owner provided only a picture of the front of the slab, the CGC seller makes a deal, and the buyer receiving the book notes glasses and a goatee drawn on Albert Dorne in the back.  Setting aside whether Al looks better with a goatee, maybe the buyer doesn't like extra writing on their books.  Email generated.  

2) Suppose the buyer negotiates with the CGC seller and $50.00 is knocked off the final price.  Buyer rejoices getting a book featuring their favorite artist, Melvin Schnorr, at a reduced price, CGC seller is happy for the sale, owner gets paid and ships.  Buyer receives the book and sees the owner's return address is from none other than... Melvin Schnorr, who (it is well-known) is destitute and selling off his collection to make ends meet.  Buyer has a bonus hand-written envelope from Melvin that he can now sell on eBay, but is wracked with guilt that he took advantage of a someone that he admired and is needy.  Email generated.

2) Suppose the buyer buys, the CGC seller sells, and the book's owner ships.  Buyer receives the book, but on receiving it finds that a slab corner is cracked because it was wrapped in a few sheets of the NY Post inside a manila envelope and now the buyer is ticked.  Maybe because there are missing pages to a Post article they wanted to read, maybe because they're more of a NY Times enthusiast, or maybe... there is that slab issue.  Email generated.    

More information is a good thing when selling/buying on the internet and it would only take an extra sentence to note a book's origin point or whether it's on consignment.

[ADAMANTIUM]

On 7/9/2022 at 9:38 AM, SeniorSurfer said:

I've been following that thread and pulling for its positive resolution, which seems to be on track.  I think sellers and buyers here are more responsible, honest and professional than many found outside these pages ("adult" is the word I would use), so thinking about adding one these proposals may seem like gilding the lily.  Still I suppose that more information would help both parties and cut down unnecessary interruptions for a sale.  A buyer might choose not to take a chance on a book not in the possession of the seller, or they may just not want to wait for that extra step, while any information a seller can provide - normal or unusual - may help sell the book to the right person or at least cut out some added explanatory emails should things go wrong, thusly:  

1) Suppose the book's owner provided only a picture of the front of the slab, the CGC seller makes a deal, and the buyer receiving the book notes glasses and a goatee drawn on Albert Dorne in the back.  Setting aside whether Al looks better with a goatee, maybe the buyer doesn't like extra writing on their books.  Email generated.  

2) Suppose the buyer negotiates with the CGC seller and $50.00 is knocked off the final price.  Buyer rejoices getting a book featuring their favorite artist, Melvin Schnorr, at a reduced price, CGC seller is happy for the sale, owner gets paid and ships.  Buyer receives the book and sees the owner's return address is from none other than... Melvin Schnorr, who (it is well-known) is destitute and selling off his collection to make ends meet.  Buyer has a bonus hand-written envelope from Melvin that he can now sell on eBay, but is wracked with guilt that he took advantage of a someone that he admired and is needy.  Email generated.

2) Suppose the buyer buys, the CGC seller sells, and the book's owner ships.  Buyer receives the book, but on receiving it finds that a slab corner is cracked because it was wrapped in a few sheets of the NY Post inside a manila envelope and now the buyer is ticked.  Maybe because there are missing pages to a Post article they wanted to read, maybe because they're more of a NY Times enthusiast, or maybe... there is that slab issue.  Email generated.    

More information is a good thing when selling/buying on the internet and it would only take an extra sentence to note a book's origin point or whether it's on consignment.

oh wow, I have never heard the phrase "guilding the lily"  I've often wanted that or felt that expression, but I didn't know it was a "thing"  Learned something new. It sounds familiar that I might have heard it on TV once upon a time but ha, thanks for that  

[SeniorSurfer]

On 7/9/2022 at 10:50 AM, ADAMANTIUM said:

oh wow, I have never heard the phrase "guilding the lily"  I've often wanted that or felt that expression, but I didn't know it was a "thing"  Learned something new. It sounds familiar that I might have heard it on TV once upon a time but ha, thanks for that  

Yeah, an entire childhood reading Stan's prose stays with you.  When I throw out a Nick Fury/Ben Grimm malaprop on purpose, the family really gets annoyed and there's a lot of eyeball rolling.

[rjpb]

A seller should always disclose when they don't have the book in their possession, regardless of reason, as much for their protection as the buyers in case they are unable to deliver. It's probably advisable to mention if it is on consignment, but not necessary, though if engaged in price negotiation, if you don't disclose it then, you are a fool. If anything it gives the seller an out if the negotiation can't quite reach completion. I wouldn't be shocked if the "selling for a friend" excuse had been used as a rational for not budging on price in the past. 

[shadroch]

On 7/8/2022 at 8:51 PM, KCOComics said:

 

What if there was an established seller who didn't have the book in hand? Someone who's sold here for years without issue? 

My point is simply, don't create rules that put restrictions on good sellers. It's creating a solution to a problem that hasn't been a real problem. 

But, if a seller is selling a book that he doesn't have, it seems reasonable to ask them to disclose that. 

How many are good sellers until they go bad?  Look at the whole Lighthouse fiasco. The man was a trusted member here for years before he wasn't.

[shadroch]

On 7/8/2022 at 8:33 PM, KCOComics said:

Missed that! Yes, I would change my vote if I could. You should disclose if it's a consignment. 

Why? Why does it matter if i sell you a book that belongs to me or a book that belongs to my best friend, or a book that belongs to Joe Schmoe? What difference could it make?

People here expect fairly quick shipping and deserve to know if a book being sold is not in hand. If I buy a book from someone, I want it in hand. 

If I buy a book and it turns out the seller doesn't have it, I move on and don't do business with them again, unless they make it right. I don't need a rule for that.

Edited July 9, 2022 by shadroch

[shadroch]

Before you make new rules, think about how to enforce them. 

If a board member sends me books to sell on consignment, that is a deal between them and me. They may not want folks to know they are selling, and I may want people to think I own all these pretty books, not merely sell them for others. How can you possibly force people to tell if they are offering consigned books? What should my penalty be when it is finally revealed I sold a consigned book to a person who was thrilled with the transaction? I've consigned books to people who have sold them on these boards.  People aren't required to say if a book is pressed but you want to force them to say if it is consigned. 

[ttfitz]

On 7/9/2022 at 1:03 PM, shadroch said:

Why? Why does it matter if i sell you a book that belongs to me or a book that belongs to my best friend, or a book that belongs to Joe Schmoe? What difference could it make?

The only thing I can think of is in the case of making an offer - if the seller doesn't own the book (and doesn't have the power to lower the price) it might take much longer to get a response to an offer. I'd probably like to know that, although I don't know that I would make it a rule (thus my vote for option 3).