POLL: To add a new rule to the Forum Marketplace 6 6

[shadroch]

On 7/9/2022 at 10:15 AM, ttfitz said:

The only thing I can think of is in the case of making an offer - if the seller doesn't own the book (and doesn't have the power to lower the price) it might take much longer to get a response to an offer. I'd probably like to know that, although I don't know that I would make it a rule (thus my vote for option 3).

Right now, I have about sixty books out on consignment to a board member who occasionally sells one here.  The person knows what I want, and the minimum I will take.  In fifteen years, I've gotten one call from them asking if I'd go lower, and that was only because the buyer put together a package. 

[shadroch]

I appreciate that the mods will take polls into consideration when making or changing rules, but I hope they never are bound to them.

[Domo Arigato]

 

Poll ends on Friday night.

 

[musicmeta]

I think we have enough selling rules as it is.  I voted no new rule.  "Nearly all" of the folks selling on this board are excellent sellers with no issues.  I've only had one issue buying on these boards in all the years I've been here.
As long as I get the book(s) in a reasonable amount of time and it measures up to my satisfaction or if there is a mix up and the seller fixes it,
I could care less if the book was sold on consignment and the seller didn't have it "in hand" at the time of the sell listing.
I'll admit the seller is taking a chance of not having the book(s) in hand and he will have to provide a solution if the books don't arrive in the expected condition or not arrive at all for some reason...Got lost, damaged...etc.   

Edited July 12, 2022 by musicmeta

[ComicsAndCode]

On 7/9/2022 at 10:12 AM, shadroch said:

Before you make new rules, think about how to enforce them. 

If a board member sends me books to sell on consignment, that is a deal between them and me. They may not want folks to know they are selling, and I may want people to think I own all these pretty books, not merely sell them for others. How can you possibly force people to tell if they are offering consigned books? What should my penalty be when it is finally revealed I sold a consigned book to a person who was thrilled with the transaction? I've consigned books to people who have sold them on these boards.  People aren't required to say if a book is pressed but you want to force them to say if it is consigned. 

Well said. I was thinking the same. The enforcing part doesn't seem very straightforward to me. And there are 3 parties involved with consignments - can get really complicated.

[ADAMANTIUM]

On 7/12/2022 at 7:33 PM, ComicsAndCode said:

On 7/9/2022 at 12:12 PM, shadroch said:

Before you make new rules, think about how to enforce them. 

If a board member sends me books to sell on consignment, that is a deal between them and me. They may not want folks to know they are selling, and I may want people to think I own all these pretty books, not merely sell them for others. How can you possibly force people to tell if they are offering consigned books? What should my penalty be when it is finally revealed I sold a consigned book to a person who was thrilled with the transaction? I've consigned books to people who have sold them on these boards.  People aren't required to say if a book is pressed but you want to force them to say if it is consigned. 

Expand  

Well said. I was thinking the same. The enforcing part doesn't seem very straightforward to me. And there are 3 parties involved with consignments - can get really complicated.

I noticed these posts, tldr all of it, but I agree; however, it would be the responsibility of the seller to know the rules and disclose.

If they didnt read the new requirement and wasn't enforced and they "got away with it" , or then they got caught learned of the rule and subject to years worth of wrong doing? 

 

[THE_BEYONDER]

On 7/12/2022 at 5:59 PM, musicmeta said:

I'll admit the seller is taking a chance of not having the book(s) in hand and he will have to provide a solution if the books don't arrive in the expected condition or not arrive at all for some reason...Got lost, damaged...etc.   

[MetalPSI]

If you don't have the book, don't sell it.

Saves a lot of headaches if the person that does have the book, forgets or otherwise doesn't ship it.

[NP_Gresham]

This rule is not needed. Rule #1 on the probation list: 30 days to complete the transaction or you can go on the probation list.

Selling books not in hand whether consignment or modern convention variants  pre sale is risky business.

If you can’t deliver you should not sell here. If you do you risk the probation list

[Buzzetta]

I was going to say.  Is this going to cover presales as well ? 

There are a few preorder guys that get signatures at cons.  They are reputable and honest guys and have demonstrated their reliability throughout the years.  Does this mean that someone could use this rule against them?

I voted to leave well enough alone. 

[musicmeta]

On 7/12/2022 at 7:42 PM, THE_BEYONDER said:

Yes, the seller  "SHOULD" have the book in hand but if the seller does not, the risk is on the seller to get the book to you in the stated condition within the time frame expected. All I know is I've never had an issue receiving the books I buy but I don't know if any were on consignment and the books were not in hand.

[Boozad]

On 7/13/2022 at 4:10 PM, Buzzetta said:

I was going to say.  Is this going to cover presales as well ? 

There are a few preorder guys that get signatures at cons.  They are reputable and honest guys and have demonstrated their reliability throughout the years.  Does this mean that someone could use this rule against them?

I voted to leave well enough alone. 

Good point. I think there's a massive lesson to be learned here (may have been just common sense back in the day, I haven't been around for a while) being that sellers should just be completely up front about what's on offer. Is the book on consignment? Do they have it in hand? Are they selling for a third party? Etc, etc. Sellers spend a lot of time building up their reputation and as long as they're completely open and up front about everything there should never be a problem.

Just to caveat that the pre-sale SS guys I used to deal with wear first rate and their reputation preceded them. Dealing with people like @EvilAsh and the like didn't even run a risk.

[seanfingh]

Well, well, well. If it isn't the British Belle(nd) of the Ball.  Hey Gav!!!!

Back to the business at hand, I voted that it should be a rule to state when you don't have the book in hand. That way in you can clearly state it in your opening post and people can decide if they want to participate or not. I feel like Sellers should be able to say that the sale is contingent upon the book arriving safely, and then Buyers can decide if they want to deal with that contingency or not.

 

[skypinkblu]

I don't know, I've given books to a trusted friend to sell in the past, sometimes he knows people, sometimes I just trust his judgement about what to do with them. I've sold things for a few friends...but I believe I have always said they were for a friend and I always had the books.

I've never sold a book that was on it's way back from CGC, I'd be a wreck if I did that...who knows if it will have a crack when it gets here, so I like that part of it...

But. I'm not sure how this would harm signature sellers. I don't want to harm them....maybe if there was a carveout for those sellers?

 

[shadroch]

So #1 is leading with 35% of the the vote, but that also means 65% of the people voted against it.  Does the mod listen to the third of the people who voted for it, or the almost two thirds who don't want #1?  Democracy is such a mess. 

[Axe Elf]

On 7/14/2022 at 8:50 AM, shadroch said:

So #1 is leading with 35% of the the vote, but that also means 65% of the people voted against it.  Does the mod listen to the third of the people who voted for it, or the almost two thirds who don't want #1?  Democracy is such a mess. 

To further complicate things, only 18% said that no new rule is needed, so 72% are in agreement that a new rule IS needed--they just can't agree on what the new rule should be.  #1 is currently the most popular of the proposed new rules.

I abstain from voting on the grounds that it doesn't affect me.

[GACollectibles]

Option 1 is the wrong answer, if the book is in hand it has no relevance whether it's consignment or not in regards to seller completing the transaction.

[GACollectibles]

Over the years here I've sold books of mine, books on consignment, books that I've co-owned and had in hand, books that I've co-owned and had to have shipped from co-owners location, and presold Signature Series books (back in the day).  The onus was on me to complete the transaction, and my responsibility if I didn't.  There have been plenty of other sellers over the years that have posted books "for a friend" without issue.

Maybe ne thing that should not be acceptable is undisclosed selling of raw books that the seller has not personally handled/graded, that invites too many variables.

[Dr. Balls]

On 7/13/2022 at 9:04 AM, NP_Gresham said:

This rule is not needed. Rule #1 on the probation list: 30 days to complete the transaction or you can go on the probation list.

Selling books not in hand whether consignment or modern convention variants  pre sale is risky business.

If you can’t deliver you should not sell here. If you do you risk the probation list

However, the risk is taken 100% by the buyer. If a seller doesn't have the book and he spend 30 days trying to get it - the buyer is the one hanging out. Not the seller nor the consignor. And putting the odds on the seller returning the money is ever more risk to the buyer to gamble with the fact if he can even get his money back.

It's shady to sell something you don't have in hand and you don't tell potential buyers, I don't care how you slice it or present it. That is a shady business practice that moves all the risk to the buyer. I understand that most sellers are problem going to hate this rule, and with good reason - it now requires them to share the responsibility of managing a consigned book by having it in-hand or risk losing sales because people don't trust the situation where a trusted seller is dealing with an unknown third party to buy the book.

The other option is to post up the  and when it comes time to share shipping information, etc - to confirm the book is in their possession via PM. But again it's up to the buyer's responsibility to determine if the seller has the book. Yeah, it's one more rule, but let's face it - our society is on the downhill side of professionalism, and we need to keep adding obvious rules because many people ignore the proper way to conduct their business.

[Dr. Balls]

On 7/14/2022 at 11:16 AM, GACollectibles said:

Option 1 is the wrong answer, if the book is in hand it has no relevance whether it's consignment or not in regards to seller completing the transaction.

If someone buys a raw book and you sell it from a consignment, and to find out it's got a missing page - do *you* as a seller want to accept that responsibility? Or would you just handle it internally and refund the customer then chase down the consignor?

I am not familiar with the benefit of consignment books for a comic dealer (I'm guessing it's to bolster their stock and give them a larger variety of books for customers to purchase)