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The Press and Pray game ..... defiantly lost this round
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Started by Devilla06,

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Devilla06

Devilla06

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image.thumb.jpeg.8d49d4b0d69cbea34070882b476352a5.jpeg

I just got my first submission to CGC back and ouch.... 

So 4 books were resubmission after pressing. 

1. Batman 423 - looks like they just graded the spine much harder than they did the previous time. went down 8.5 to 7.5. Didn’t have a stain before

New notes - light creasing to cover light staining to cover moderate spine stress lines to cover

Old Notes - light finger bends on cover light scuffing to cover light spine stress lines to cover

2. Batman Adventures 12 - this one blew my mind they got rid of the rust and dents and no grade bump?

Old notes -dent left top of back cover, dent right center of back cover, small rust stain left bottom of back cover, spine stress lines breaks color.
New notes - light creasing to cover ,moderate spine stress lines to cover.

3. X-men 101 - 

new notes - light staining to cover moderate creasing to cover moderate spine stress lines to cover

Old notes - multiple crease breaks color multiple stain bottom of front cover multiple tear left bottom of back cover spine stress lines breaks color

4. Spiderman 316 - this one went down from a 9.4 to 9.0. Went from slight to moderate spine stress... :( 

 

Other books were raw

5. Spiderman 410 I am shocked with. Only note mentions finger Prints front cover breaks color.... No spine stress. Thought it was at least a 9.6
6. Spiderman 361 is missing a staple and has no holes.... not mentioned its a error version nor graders notes telling me why it got dinged.
7/8. Detective Comics 880s - one says it has a water stain which it didn't have before I sent it out and is the higher grade. The 8.0 just says light creasing and spine stress to cover.
9. X-men 266 seems harsh for these notes - light finger bends on cover light spine stress lines to cover
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Qalyar

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On 7/14/2022 at 1:28 PM, David Evilla said:

image.thumb.jpeg.8d49d4b0d69cbea34070882b476352a5.jpeg

I just got my first submission to CGC back and ouch.... 

So 4 books were resubmission after pressing. 

1. Batman 423 - looks like they just graded the spine much harder than they did the previous time. went down 8.5 to 7.5. Didn’t have a stain before

New notes - light creasing to cover light staining to cover moderate spine stress lines to cover

Old Notes - light finger bends on cover light scuffing to cover light spine stress lines to cover

2. Batman Adventures 12 - this one blew my mind they got rid of the rust and dents and no grade bump?

Old notes -dent left top of back cover, dent right center of back cover, small rust stain left bottom of back cover, spine stress lines breaks color.
New notes - light creasing to cover ,moderate spine stress lines to cover.

3. X-men 101 - 

new notes - light staining to cover moderate creasing to cover moderate spine stress lines to cover

Old notes - multiple crease breaks color multiple stain bottom of front cover multiple tear left bottom of back cover spine stress lines breaks color

4. Spiderman 316 - this one went down from a 9.4 to 9.0. Went from slight to moderate spine stress... :( 

 

Other books were raw

5. Spiderman 410 I am shocked with. Only note mentions finger Prints front cover breaks color.... No spine stress. Thought it was at least a 9.6
6. Spiderman 361 is missing a staple and has no holes.... not mentioned its a error version nor graders notes telling me why it got dinged.
7/8. Detective Comics 880s - one says it has a water stain which it didn't have before I sent it out and is the higher grade. The 8.0 just says light creasing and spine stress to cover.
9. X-men 266 seems harsh for these notes - light finger bends on cover light spine stress lines to cover

Couple of things I do want to note here. First, just because a defect isn't mentioned in the new/old notes, doesn't mean that defect isn't present. For example, non-restorative C&P isn't generally going to do anything about staple corrosion; just because they didn't mention it the second time, doesn't mean it magically went away. And second, regarding "light" stress lines that become "moderate" after a press, this can be a problem with pressing (especially mediocre pressers), where a color-breaking crease is pressed out such that the paper lays flat, but the color break is now ironically more clearly visible and is marked down more harshly.

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KirbyTown

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To preface, CGC notes are nearly worthless, but know that many things are allowed in a given grade whether they're mentioned or not. The way this is supposed to work is that if the defect exists but isn't mentioned in the notes, it is still allowed in the grade you were given, it just wasn't noted. Also when comparing notes it's possible that a different person is using different words to describe the same defect.

Did you happen to use press screen on any of these?

On the books:

xxx1, 8.5 and 7.5 comics both have to have some significant problems. Was there something you may have missed? (edit: whoops this was a resubmission comic sorry!)xxx

2, What was the submitted grade?

3, What was the submitted grade?

Can you provide HQ before and after pics on any of these for inspection?

Thanks again so much for sharing all this!

Edited by KirbyTown
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Devilla06

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X-Men 101 - Page quality went from off white to White. This one presents well and it is what it is. Same with Spiderman 316 sucks since I paid $300 for a 9.4 slab then paid $40 to get it press/regarded. I accept these two grades. Tho I have a Batman 227/Hulk 181 that are 7.0s that look way way worse than this.

After Press and clean

21IMG_8490.thumb.jpeg.089d1fd4ef81eb9c293f76d13a6dc813.jpegIMG_8491.thumb.jpeg.3438c514709e770607e3365b25231ed9.jpeg

Notes -

light staining to cover

moderate creasing to cover

moderate spine stress lines to cover

Before

Notes - 

multiple crease breaks color

multiple stain bottom of front cover

multiple tear left bottom of back cover

spine stress lines breaks color

 

Notes

BeforeIMG_4043.thumb.jpeg.6a475776eb52879ccf7085420e3f752d.jpegIMG_4044.thumb.jpeg.e199520ce5c12841ddfc0fb6409acf98.jpeg

Edited by Devilla06
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Devilla06

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Batman 423 - this one went down 2 grades from an 8.5 to a 7.5 this one hurt alot :(

After press (pages are white not not off white like when it was a 8.5 !!!)

Notes 

light creasing to cover

light staining to cover  (never mentioned staining before)

moderate spine stress lines to cover (this got worse....)

IMG_8494.thumb.jpeg.be8c4220a3c8406ee49ec6b962eba845.jpegIMG_8495.thumb.jpeg.d8075f102548fc8d8246f1daa53fc375.jpeg

 

 

 

Before Press

Grader notes 

light finger bends on cover

light scuffing to cover

light spine stress lines to cover

 

IMG_3827.thumb.jpeg.5ea7d9735f46edcae13bbf159df8a98d.jpegBaIMG_3828.thumb.jpeg.57523e300dc5f3ba8f1cfd366c3b7a39.jpeg

Edited by Devilla06
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Devilla06

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Batman Adventures 12 - this one stayed same grade but presents much better than before and the notes seem like it should have gotten a bump

 

After Press

Notes -

light creasing to cover

moderate spine stress lines to cover

IMG_8492.thumb.jpeg.9ba9341b4fbb40f7d07813a6f8b731a1.jpegIMG_8493.thumb.jpeg.a919d86ec157cf52299dcd88c84b9981.jpeg

Before press

Grader notes

dent left top of back cover(looks like it was fixed)

dent right center of back cover (looks like it was fixed)

small rust stain left bottom of back cover  (not mentioned)

spine stress lines breaks color

 

 

IMG_4051.thumb.jpeg.d373acfde215e6671bb967fab84d8a84.jpegIMG_4052.thumb.jpeg.04979103ee016926f1b794ab72037aa1.jpeg

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jokiing

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I'm no expert as to the pressing/cleaning process and I'm sure there are different techniques. That being said, and not knowing Spineworks reputation, could these mysterious water stains be from the pressing process? As someone else mentioned, not all defects are mentioned in notes, but stains are a big deal to CGC and really affect the grade. Need some experts to chime in and tell me if I'm barking up the wrong tree.

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Devilla06

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On 7/14/2022 at 5:28 PM, jokiing said:

I'm no expert as to the pressing/cleaning process and I'm sure there are different techniques. That being said, and not knowing Spineworks reputation, could these mysterious water stains be from the pressing process? As someone else mentioned, not all defects are mentioned in notes, but stains are a big deal to CGC and really affect the grade. Need some experts to chime in and tell me if I'm barking up the wrong tree.

alot of my books mention water marks and stains that they didn't before.

If you are in the east coast or in Florida Spine Works are used by alot of people and go to most the local cons. Also the YouTubers from these areas use them as well. I did get a 9.8s and a 9.6s. It's just these grades I don't under stand haha.

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joeypost

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On 7/14/2022 at 5:28 PM, jokiing said:

I'm no expert as to the pressing/cleaning process and I'm sure there are different techniques. That being said, and not knowing Spineworks reputation, could these mysterious water stains be from the pressing process? As someone else mentioned, not all defects are mentioned in notes, but stains are a big deal to CGC and really affect the grade. Need some experts to chime in and tell me if I'm barking up the wrong tree.

It could be. I would share additional information, but it would be free training. 

Edited by joeypost
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KirbyTown

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On 7/14/2022 at 4:35 PM, David Evilla said:

alot of my books mention water marks and stains that they didn't before.

Hmm.

Were the notes about water marks and stains only on books that you sent to that pressing company?

Also, can you please copypaste the before and after notes for those books?

This is interesting, thanks!

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thehumantorch

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On 7/14/2022 at 3:35 PM, David Evilla said:

alot of my books mention water marks and stains that they didn't before.

If you are in the east coast or in Florida Spine Works are used by alot of people and go to most the local cons. Also the YouTubers from these areas use them as well. I did get a 9.8s and a 9.6s. It's just these grades I don't under stand haha.

Sorry about the poor results.  Notes are hit and miss.  You shouldn't read too much into what's there or not there.

I did go to Spineworks website.  Looks like they've been in the pressing business a couple years and pressing for themselves a few years prior.  2 years of professional experience isn't a ton.  That Youtubers and alot of people use them doesn't mean they're good at what they do. This is too small a sample size to reasonable judge their work but it appears every book they pressed for you came back the same grade or a lower grade and that should at least make you wonder  how good they are.

There's a poster in this thread, who's name rhymes with "glowie roast' who I consider the best pressor in the business - based on hundreds of books pressed by him for me.  Based on the long wait list for his services many other people also consider him to be the best.  He resides in Florida, he's been pressing books for I'd imagine 15 plus years and you should consider his services 

 

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comicginger1789

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Look…I don’t know Spineworks at all but let me tell you this. They formed in 2020 and claim to have been pressing for over 5 years. I’m not saying you can’t become good in that time but I’m betting they like many are swamped and it’s possible they messed up. Plus if their presses are newer presses that involve moisture of any kind, that could have played a role.

I would get a second opinion from a company/person who has been pressing and in the comic business for longer than those two. My two cents 

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comicginger1789

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Also…and this is just a me thing…I don’t trust my books being pressed by a guy who wears a flat brimmed hat and says things in videos like “it’s your boy…”

This generation of pressers, many of whom emerged around 2016/17, use the cheaper equipment generally and try to move fast. Quick pressing…when to get the best results, a book may need several presses. Their results can vary and they tend to have a handle on 2000s to now books but with older stuff, they rush and don’t put the patience in.

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theCapraAegagrus

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On 7/14/2022 at 9:22 PM, comicginger1789 said:

Also…and this is just a me thing…I don’t trust my books being pressed by a guy who wears a flat brimmed hat and says things in videos like “it’s your boy…”

This generation of pressers, many of whom emerged around 2016/17, use the cheaper equipment generally and try to move fast. Quick pressing…when to get the best results, a book may need several presses. Their results can vary and they tend to have a handle on 2000s to now books but with older stuff, they rush and don’t put the patience in.

You've made a lot of good points in this thread.

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Devilla06

Devilla06

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. 

On 7/14/2022 at 10:13 PM, Topnotchman said:

None of these books are high enough grade to justify the costs of third party grading.   

I didn’t want to wait with CCS. heard turn around times were a year.

I have higher value and older books and these were just a test batch

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