Stan, Jack, and Steve - The 1950's. (1957) Jack Kirby's Marvel Age has already begun! 2 2

[Prince Namor]

On 7/21/2022 at 7:23 PM, bronze_rules said:

I think you are over trivializing Stan's contribution. 

And I’m saying he DID, embellish his ideas into the story - he was the final scripted after all - but it’s the artist themselves who say he sometimes only gave them a one line idea or nothing at all. 

[Prince Namor]

On 7/21/2022 at 7:59 PM, Zonker said:

It's not *that* unusual or special anymore.  I remember Archie Goodwin and Walt Simonson worked "Marvel-style" when doing the Manhunter strip in Detective Comics in the 1970s.  Wolfman and Perez eventually started working this way when doing New Teen Titans.  I've read John Byrne complaining about Chris Claremont changing the meaning of what Byrne intended by putting words in the X-Men's mouths that Byrne hadn't meant to be there.  So I agree it can create problems, particularly if the artist is just being paid the same rate as if he were following the directions spelled out in a traditional full --script, when in fact he's doing much more work.  But if both parties are on board with how to divide up the credit and the compensation, it can certainly play to each creator's strengths.  

If the writer and artist actually sit down and discuss the ideas of what will happen - and the artist then goes and creates the story - and the writer then does the dialogue - and the artist credited and paid as co-plotter…

Yeah, there are advantages, creatively in how it can be done. 
 

That’s not the arrangement I’m talking about. 

[Prince Namor]

Here’s Jim Shooter (one of the Top Five liars in the History of Comics) talking about the Spider-man newspaper strip… I knew Houseroy ghosted it for the last 20 years but I had no idea someone was ghosting it since it first started!

And what did Stan object to doing?

Coming up with plots… 

[sfcityduck]

On 7/21/2022 at 7:33 PM, Prince Namor said:

Here’s Jim Shooter (one of the Top Five liars in the History of Comics) talking about the Spider-man newspaper strip… I knew Houseroy ghosted it for the last 20 years but I had no idea someone was ghosting it since it first started!

And what did Stan object to doing?

Coming up with plots… 

 

The strip was launched in 1977.  At the time, Stan was 55. As a 56 year old guy, I'm not why you'd expect his attitude at that point in his career, when he hadn't been regularly working on comics for half a decade, to be indicative of what he thought or how he acted 17 years earlier. The reality is that people change as their lives progress. If you want to make a point about 1960, get some evidence from 1960, not from 1976 or 1977.

[Prince Namor]

ON NEWSSTANDS APRIL 1957

For April Stan Lee wrote:

 

The Adventures of Homer the Ghost #2 with Tony DiPreta art - Last Issue

A Date with Millie #7 with Dan DeCarlo art - Last Issue 

Frontier Western #10 - with George Tuska - Last Issue

Homer the Happy Ghost #15 with Dan DeCarlo art

Millie the Model #80 with Dan DeCarlo art 

Showgirls #2 with Dan DeCarlo art - Last Issue

Marvin the Mouse #1 - with Bill Everett art - First, last and only Issue

Willie the Wisely #1 - with Fred Kida art - First, last and only Issue

 

Atlas released 39 titles in April including FOUR #1's that would never see a 2nd issue, including Stan and Bill Everett's awful Marvin the Mouse #1, Stan and Fred Kida's even worse Willie the Wiseguy #1, as well as Morris Weiss' Hedy Wolfe #1 and Vince Colletta's Romances of Nurse Helen Grant #1
 

[Prince Namor]

ON NEWSSTANDS APRIL 1957

Romances of Nurse Helen Grant #1 (Vince Colletta)

[Prince Namor]

ON NEWSSTANDS APRIL 1957

For April, Jack Kirby wrote, penciled and inked a story in House of Mystery #63 (Mort Reskin cover)

[kav]

One thing's for sure.  Kirby could not draw Superman.

 

or Spider Man for that matter.

[Prince Namor]

ON NEWSSTANDS APRIL 1957

For April, Steve Ditko did the cover 3 stories for Out of this World #4. The cover is one of his all time greats. 

The first story was written by Joe Gill

Story ONE

[Prince Namor]

ON NEWSSTANDS APRIL 1957

Out of this World #4 - Steve Ditko

The second story was written by Jack Oleck

Story TWO

[Prince Namor]

ON NEWSSTANDS APRIL 1957

Out of this World #4 - Steve Ditko

The third story was also written by Joe Gill

Story THREE

[Prince Namor]

ON NEWSSTANDS APRIL 1957

Kid Slade Gunfighter #8 - Final Issue - Werner Roth

Werner Roth would do his last work for Atlas/Marvel in Kid Slade Gunfighter #8 (reprinted here with the name changed to Matt Slade, Gunfighter). Rth had been with Atlas since 1950, working on various titles including Venus and the Apache Kid and Lorna the jungle Queen with Don Rico. He'd mostly work for DC for the next 8 years.

[Prince Namor]

 

ON NEWSSTANDS MAY 1957

For May Stan Lee only wrote:

Sherry the Showgirl #7 with Al Hartley art - Final Issue

Dippy Duck #1 with Joe Maneely art - First, Last and Only Issue

 

Atlas only releases 23 titles for the month, and Stan only has a hand in two of them, one being the amazingly awful Dippy Duck #1. In fact, Dippy the Duck is one of THREE #1's that Atlas would release for the month... so it seems they weren't even aware at this point of the change over or it happened mid-month. The other number one's were:

Jack Kirby's Black Rider #1 (which could've been put together through inventory)

and Al Hartley's Date with Patsy #1 - both First, Last and Only Issue.

also in May - two titles on their second and final issue: Kid from Dodge City #2 and Kid from Texas #2.

 

The full effects of the implosion would begin the following month...

[shadroch]

On 7/22/2022 at 12:08 PM, Prince Namor said:

 

ON NEWSSTANDS APRIL 1957

For April Stan Lee wrote:

 

The Adventures of Homer the Ghost #2 with Tony DiPreta art - Last Issue

A Date with Millie #7 with Dan DeCarlo art - Last Issue 

Frontier Western #10 - with George Tuska - Last Issue

Homer the Happy Ghost #15 with Dan DeCarlo art

Millie the Model #80 with Dan DeCarlo art 

Showgirls #2 with Dan DeCarlo art - Last Issue

Marvin the Mouse #1 - with Bill Everett art - First, last and only Issue

Willie the Wisely #1 - with Fred Kida art - First, last and only Issue

 

Atlas released 39 titles in April including FOUR #1's that would never see a 2nd issue, including Stan and Bill Everett's awful Marvin the Mouse #1, Stan and Fred Kida's even worse Willie the Wiseguy #1, as well as Morris Weiss' Hedy Wolfe #1 and Vince Colletta's Romances of Nurse Helen Grant #1
 

So while Stan was perfecting the mini-series, he also accidently inspired what the world would soon know as a beatle hair cut. 

The more you read, the more you learn.

 

If Stan only had a hand in one or two of the books, who else was editing them?

Edited July 25, 2022 by shadroch

[Prince Namor]

On 7/25/2022 at 9:17 AM, shadroch said:

If Stan only had a hand in one or two of the books, who else was editing them?

Atlas employed a number of editors during the 50's, including Hank Chapman, Don Rico, Carl Wessler, Paul S. Newman, Al Jaffee, and for periods of time Al Hartley, Al Sulman, and Daniel Keyes. Stan oversaw it all, as a trusted family member, but he in no way edited the whole line of comics. 

[Prince Namor]

ON NEWSSTANDS MAY 1957

For May Jack Kirby actually had an Atlas title, Black Rider Rides Again #1 (John Severin cover) - First, Last and Only Issue

He wrote, penciled and inked 3 stories.

Story ONE:

Spoiler

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Story TWO:

Spoiler

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Story THREE:

Spoiler

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Prince Namor]

ON NEWSSTANDS MAY 1957

Kirby also was getting regular work from DC, besides his Challengers stories. For May there was an 8 page story in My Greatest Adventure #16 (Ruben Moreira cover) - This story has been reprinted a couple of times in Jack Kirby samplers from DC!

[Prince Namor]

ON NEWSSTANDS MAY 1957

... and a 6 pager in Tales of the Unexpected #15 (Ruben Moreira cover) with Kirby story, pencils and inks. Another one that's been reprinted a few times!

 

[Prince Namor]

ON NEWSSTANDS MAY 1957

Steve Ditko meanwhile had two stories and the cover in Mysteries of Unexplored Worlds #4. Joe Gill was the writer on both stories. 

Story ONE was a 9 pager!

[Prince Namor]

ON NEWSSTANDS MAY 1957

Story TWO is a 6 pager written by Joe Gill