If you list anything on CAF as historic... 1 1

[RBerman]

On 7/29/2022 at 9:37 AM, Xatari said:

Agreed. Jordan has a great collection which is why the extension of “historic” to such a wide range of pieces in his gallery actually diminishes the pieces that truly are incredible. They sort of get lost in the noise. 

I think about this just with the number of pages I have on CAF. I'm well aware that most of my collection is low value, low prestige. But I buy pages that I like, and maybe someone will enjoy seeing them, perhaps someone who's a particular fan of that character or artist. Still, there's a psychological effect at work when the high-demand and more valuable pages are surrounded by "lesser" work. For instance, psychology studies have confirmed that a stack of eleven pristine plates sells for a higher price than a stack of eleven pristine plates plus one marred plate. It's not rational, but that's humanity for you.

CAF addresses this partially by giving premium members twelve slots on their front page. Maybe I should just rotate other pages through there periodically.

[RBerman]

On 7/29/2022 at 11:54 AM, Race said:

To paraphrase Syndrome from The Incredibles, "When everything is special, nothing is." I would pay Bill to include a feature which would allow one to delete comments, frankly. I'd rather have no comments on a piece of mine than be one out of the twenty (fifty?) pages Marcus comments on daily. 

This feature exists.

[comix4fun]

On 7/29/2022 at 11:54 AM, Race said:

To paraphrase Syndrome from The Incredibles, "When everything is special, nothing is." I would pay Bill to include a feature which would allow one to delete comments, frankly. I'd rather have no comments on a piece of mine than be one out of the twenty (fifty?) pages Marcus comments on daily. 

That's been a premium member feature for at least a decade. 
 

[John E.]

On 7/29/2022 at 12:00 PM, Race said:

Thank you for providing this public service notification.... but it is only for Premium members... the regular folks have to suffer

 

On 7/29/2022 at 11:54 AM, Race said:

To paraphrase Syndrome from The Incredibles, "When everything is special, nothing is." I would pay Bill to include a feature which would allow one to delete comments, frankly. I'd rather have no comments on a piece of mine than be one out of the twenty (fifty?) pages Marcus comments on daily. 

But you just said you would “pay Bill” 

[cloud cloddie]

On 7/29/2022 at 9:45 AM, RBerman said:

I'm impressed with the variety of ways Marcus finds to talk about a piece. It's no easy feat, and preferable to just "Nice art." Not that I mind when people say that about my postings on CAF!

I second that. It’s quite a skill to come up with that many ways to talk about a piece. And I think it’s great he comments on all sorts of pieces, and not just the $50K covers like so many others. 

[comix4fun]

On 7/29/2022 at 12:09 PM, Race said:

Guess I will. Maybe Marcus is actually being paid by Bill to troll to force us to upgrade...

There are actually bad serial commenters out there. Marcus seems to really enjoy heaping praise on pieces. 

But if you're dead set then....

[Wolvie_Fan]

Yeah, I'm a fan of Marcus also.  His comments are always fun to read.  

[Will_K]

On 7/29/2022 at 10:24 AM, Heidjer Staecker said:

I understand why Bill (Cox) does not want to get involved in parsing out what does or does not belong on CAF.  You can argue about taste, etc.  However, as CAF and the hobby grows, I think he is going to have to do some segregation and policing of different CAF pages or risk becoming like Ebay.

Some time around the start of the pandemic (??) , on CAF Live (youtube) Bill was asking members to be moderators that would (at a minimum) identify pieces that violated CAF terms and conditions ( https://www.comicartfans.com/termsconditions.asp , item 6).  They (or Bill) would ask the gallery owner to at least check the "Restricted" (NSF) box.  And eventually, the piece could be deleted from CAF altogether.  Bill mentioned a discussion with at least one European collector who basically said "Anything goes" (at least in Europe).  I don't recall hearing much after that.  But whatever the case, it looks like there's been a serious drop off in "enforcement" lately.

[Will_K]

On 7/29/2022 at 12:54 PM, Race said:

I'd rather have no comments on a piece of mine

There's a member who posts art and under Description for every piece, it says "Please no comments".  As far as I can tell, that request has been honored.  Not a CAF premium member, so he can't delete comments.  I sent a message asking why and didn't get a response (didn't really expect one).

See:  https://www.comicartfans.com/gallerydetail.asp?gcat=36469

Edit: I just saw that he does comment on other members' pieces.

Edited July 29, 2022 by Will_K

[RBerman]

On 7/29/2022 at 12:28 PM, Will_K said:

Some time around the start of the pandemic (??) , on CAF Live (youtube) Bill was asking members to be moderators that would (at a minimum) identify pieces that violated CAF terms and conditions ( https://www.comicartfans.com/termsconditions.asp , item 6).  They (or Bill) would ask the gallery owner to at least check the "Restricted" (NSF) box.  And eventually, the piece could be deleted from CAF altogether.  Bill mentioned a discussion with at least one European collector who basically said "Anything goes" (at least in Europe).  I don't recall hearing much after that.  But whatever the case, it looks like there's been a serious drop off in "enforcement" lately.

Looking through the most recent 400 posted images, I don't see an avalanche of smut. Perhaps it comes in waves? A "report piece" feature would help to crowdsource the pieces that deserve moderator evaluation, but it would need to be linked to some mechanism on the back end to forestall the same pieces needing repeat evaluation.

[comix4fun]

On 7/29/2022 at 1:05 PM, Will_K said:

There's a member who posts art and under Description for every piece, it says "Please no comments".  As far as I can tell, that request has been honored.  Not a CAF premium member, so he can't delete comments.  I sent a message asking why and didn't get a response (didn't really expect one).

See:  https://www.comicartfans.com/gallerydetail.asp?gcat=36469

That is a head scratcher.

Trying my best to find the motivation for that. 

Posting to a community art site where everyone shares their art for everyone to see and discuss those pieces, but actively trying to prevent commentary and discussion. 

Strange form of engagement and recoiling from engagement. 

[Benedict Judas Hel]

On 7/29/2022 at 12:26 PM, Wolvie_Fan said:

Yeah, I'm a fan of Marcus also.  His comments are always fun to read.  

I don’t mind his comments on any page of mine either.  It’s cool that anybody takes the time to leave a message on one of my gallery pages.  I also make sure that I give a “thumbs up” to their comment and a response as well.  It’s just common courtesy to me.

But I personally don’t like the term “birth page” and the concerted effort to make that term “happen”.  “First appearance” is good enough for me and I don’t see a need to change it.

Edited July 30, 2022 by Benedict Judas Hel
Punctuation

[Mighty Hal]

On 7/29/2022 at 8:07 AM, cstojano said:

I am struggling to understand how this page is in any way a 1st appearance page?? What am I missing?

https://www.comicartfans.com/gallerypiece.asp?piece=1735963

Some collectors believe that any character appearance during a "first appearance issue" also counts as a 1st appearance of the character even if he or she was seen on the previous 10 pages. They call this a "first", but not a "birth" appearance, which is when a reader first sees that character.

[The Voord]

I like Marcus's comments.  He seems like a good guy.

[comix4fun]

On 7/29/2022 at 4:09 PM, Race said:

 

I said what I did because I am, for the most part, anon here and can say things that others cannot in our small, insular hobby -- a hobby whose participants (and most especially dealers) can and WILL shut you out/refuse to trade with you if they don't like what you say. 

So, what you're saying is, it is your theory that in order for someone to be able to freely make comments of a critical nature, without fear of repercussions, that it helps for you, "Race", to be anonymous. 

 So, this means you've developed something of a Critical Race Theory. 

Race seems to be gone and his posts went with them. 

Edited July 30, 2022 by comix4fun

[Rick2you2]

On 7/29/2022 at 12:51 PM, RBerman said:

I think about this just with the number of pages I have on CAF. I'm well aware that most of my collection is low value, low prestige. But I buy pages that I like, and maybe someone will enjoy seeing them, perhaps someone who's a particular fan of that character or artist. Still, there's a psychological effect at work when the high-demand and more valuable pages are surrounded by "lesser" work. For instance, psychology studies have confirmed that a stack of eleven pristine plates sells for a higher price than a stack of eleven pristine plates plus one marred plate. It's not rational, but that's humanity for you.

CAF addresses this partially by giving premium members twelve slots on their front page. Maybe I should just rotate other pages through there periodically.

I don’t collect for prestige, or value. Hell, if I did, I would not have picked the Phantom Stranger as a focus. At the very least, maybe Zatanna, so I could justify commissions which appeal to my prurient interests. Let me add that I don’t particularly like most of that highly coveted Marvel art from the Silver Age, so its sale prices are meaningless, if not downright ridiculous to me. So, buy what you like and the hell with what anyone thinks (unless you are married and the cost comes out of the family budget, but you can always retort about the cost of a pedicure in defense). 

[Varanis]

On 7/29/2022 at 1:28 PM, Will_K said:

Some time around the start of the pandemic (??) , on CAF Live (youtube) Bill was asking members to be moderators that would (at a minimum) identify pieces that violated CAF terms and conditions ( https://www.comicartfans.com/termsconditions.asp , item 6).  They (or Bill) would ask the gallery owner to at least check the "Restricted" (NSF) box.  And eventually, the piece could be deleted from CAF altogether.  Bill mentioned a discussion with at least one European collector who basically said "Anything goes" (at least in Europe).  I don't recall hearing much after that.  But whatever the case, it looks like there's been a serious drop off in "enforcement" lately.

I'm one of those moderators. It's a group of volunteers and activity has definitely decreased. I'll work to pick it back up.

On 7/29/2022 at 11:07 AM, cstojano said:

I am struggling to understand how this page is in any way a 1st appearance page?? What am I missing?

https://www.comicartfans.com/gallerypiece.asp?piece=1735963

It's from a 1st app issue. Jordan usually uses "birth page" to indicate a true 1st app page. I think it's fair to qualify a page as from a 1st app issue - that is a very legit desirable trait to a lot of collectors. I'm not the biggest fan of the term "birth page," so I try to use "1st appearance" for true 1st app pages and "1st appearance issue" if it's not the literal 1st page the character appeared on. 

On 7/29/2022 at 12:54 PM, Race said:

To paraphrase Syndrome from The Incredibles, "When everything is special, nothing is." I would pay Bill to include a feature which would allow one to delete comments, frankly. I'd rather have no comments on a piece of mine than be one out of the twenty (fifty?) pages Marcus comments on daily. 

Marcus is fantastic. He increases engagement on the site tremendously, makes people feel good about their art, and often has insightful or funny comments. I don't understand what there is to dislike about Marcus' commenting.

[vodou]

On 7/29/2022 at 5:09 PM, Race said:

I said what I did because I am, for the most part, anon here and can say things that others cannot in our small, insular hobby -- a hobby whose participants (and most especially dealers) can and WILL shut you out/refuse to trade with you if they don't like what you say. 

 

You make me look soooooo good. Every day of the week. Thank you "Race"; I'm retired from the throbbing viagra game, leaving you Da Winnah...enjoy it  

However, you're totally fulla as you yourself admitted when you had to back off the CAF/DD bashing thread cuz you were going to get "cut off", proving that access trumps integrity for you. Bo-ring.

[cloud cloddie]

On 7/29/2022 at 2:09 PM, Race said:

 

Regarding the art in question, I pointed out  -- using the most recent HA sale of a superior page from the same issue -- that yours was priced rather above what I consider FMV. I even stated I liked the page, but unfortunately your choice of language in a response led to both my and your comments being deleted.  

Your comment probably got deleted because it’s against the marketplace rules. 

Buyers may not post in a way that hurts a sellers chance of a sale, or discredits their reputation.  A few examples would be saying this book is priced too high, or a cheaper copy can be found at xxxxx.  Another example would be, I don't like this person, and would never buy from him/her.   There may be a few exceptions for known scammers.    We can tell the difference between a joke and a rude or unnecessary comment.    A decision either way will be at the discretion of the moderator.  Violation of this rule will result in points added to your account, and possibly restricting your ability to post on the forum.  

 

[Rick2you2]

On 7/29/2022 at 6:02 PM, cloud cloddie said:

Your comment probably got deleted because it’s against the marketplace rules. 

Buyers may not post in a way that hurts a sellers chance of a sale, or discredits their reputation.  A few examples would be saying this book is priced too high, or a cheaper copy can be found at xxxxx.  Another example would be, I don't like this person, and would never buy from him/her.   There may be a few exceptions for known scammers.    We can tell the difference between a joke and a rude or unnecessary comment.    A decision either way will be at the discretion of the moderator.  Violation of this rule will result in points added to your account, and possibly restricting your ability to post on the forum.  

 

Now that makes sense. 
A long time ago, I started a thread, long dead, about overoptimistic pricing. To my eyes, a price for a page might seem absurd, but maybe, I missed something. The general reaction appeared to be that someone should be able to price art any way they want. True, but that wasn’t the point. Who knows? Maybe I missed the fact that a particular page was the first appearance “Fudgie the Whale”. So, maybe the concept should be revived.