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C2E2 Variant Drama
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Started by fastballspecial,

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shadroch

shadroch

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On 8/16/2022 at 7:25 AM, GeeksAreMyPeeps said:

Maybe for Marvel, but I could easily see some small indy publisher, looking to create a new limited edition for a publication that has attracted interest, doing this to raise more money.

Why would that be bad? Comic companies have repackaged unsold material since the golden age.  If a publisher has unsold stock of Boris the Bear Jr #1, and decides to put an acetate cover on it to repackage it, what is the problem?  If a comic retailer does it, it is a problem. If that retailer buys grades from CGC, that is a bigger problem.  Heck, if Marvel gave Diamond permission to put a limited acetate on all its backstock, it might cure the companies finances.

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chrisco37

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On 8/16/2022 at 10:37 AM, toro said:

That would be nice, but I think there is a better chance of seeing an in-house Crain signing.

Definitely.  They aren’t going to ban BF or Crain.  How could they?  CGC knew beforehand what was going on and they allowed it.

”Hey guys, we know we told you it was ok and we worked with you on it.  Now it’s not ok, so we’ve got to ban you.”

 

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s-dali

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On 8/16/2022 at 8:02 AM, gregreece said:

By participating in our program, please remember that all cover artwork must be created and approved by Marvel. Once submitted and accepted, no retailer has permission to use these comics or art to create new products, edit, or change the published comic in any way. This of course pertains to all past and current comics.

This tells me that what happened with BF and Crain is not, and was not, allowed by Marvel at any time. It looks like they are sending out a reminder ("remember") to everyone just in case other retailers are thinking of doing this. Then it looks like they changed the wording in the contracts to make it crystal clear to everyone!! Perhaps they decided to specifically call out acetate covers.

On 8/16/2022 at 8:02 AM, gregreece said:

We have updated our deal sheets for all retailer variant cover requests moving forward to emphasize these points

 

Edited by s-dali
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SeniorSurfer

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So in summation of almost 200 pages (minus the excellent jokes and sidebars) we have:

1) Black Flag explaining why some people got "theirs" and others got bent.

2) CGC explaining why their procedure and labeling were correct (nothing doing on grading as yet).

3) Marvel explaining the definition and extent to which an Exclusive remains as such... going forward, anyway.

 

groucho quote.webp

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Murphman13

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On 8/16/2022 at 9:51 AM, MrBedrock said:

They have already changed their stance internally. They are just too chicken-sheet to say it publically.

So what is CGCs stance on all the remaining unslabbed 3 acetate books from BF? You know there are probably many submissions of AF 4 already sent in and probably a few dozen of the other two books were postmarked yesterday and are on the way to CGC. 

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BoognishRises

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Look how David Gabriel carefully chose to say no "retailer" may make changes after. No mention of an artist/creator. Remember what CGC said? They said the did what they did because it was created BY Clayton Crain. 

David Gabriel's memo might just be a warning to future RETAILERS to not get cute and try this themselves. But I'd bet anything they'd be on board if a well known artist/creator ran it by them first. They'll get the stamp of approval then.

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FFB

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On 8/16/2022 at 6:07 AM, billsid said:

Does this mean Black Flag found a loophole and Marvel had to "update our deal sheets" to reflect that??

No, it means that it's still copyright infringement but now Marvel is going to make it very clear that this specific thing isn't allowed.  It's like what DrunkWooky said about 100 pages ago, when he commented that he enjoys reading contracts that have odd clauses in them, and imagining what misfortune caused that clause to have been inserted in the first place.  

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FFB

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On 8/16/2022 at 7:16 AM, BoognishRises said:

Marvel is just now updating the wording in the store variant contract since nothing in the original contract prevented Black Flag (or another retailer) from doing this. So Black Flag gets a pass, all 3 books will keep their value, more people will wind up wanting them (ugh), thus creating more demand. 

I don't think that's what's going on here.  

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FFB

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On 8/16/2022 at 8:27 AM, BoognishRises said:

Look how David Gabriel carefully chose to say no "retailer" may make changes after. No mention of an artist/creator. Remember what CGC said? They said the did what they did because it was created BY Clayton Crain. 

David Gabriel's memo might just be a warning to future RETAILERS to not get cute and try this themselves. But I'd bet anything they'd be on board if a well known artist/creator ran it by them first. They'll get the stamp of approval then.

But that was the whole problem with the bootleg books in the first place.  If Marvel gives its approval to a project, then it's an authorized release and is no longer a bootleg.  

I'm not sure what your problem is with this.  Marvel can do whatever they want with their IP.  

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MrBedrock

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On 8/16/2022 at 10:23 AM, Murphman13 said:

So what is CGCs stance on all the remaining unslabbed 3 acetate books from BF? You know there are probably many submissions of AF 4 already sent in and probably a few dozen of the other two books were postmarked yesterday and are on the way to CGC. 

I am sure the submitters will let us know. But because they can't be bothered to admit their mistake, either way it will be more bad press for CGC.

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shadroch

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On 8/16/2022 at 7:40 AM, chrisco37 said:

Definitely.  They aren’t going to ban BF or Crain.  How could they?  CGC knew beforehand what was going on and they allowed it.

”Hey guys, we know we told you it was ok and we worked with you on it.  Now it’s not ok, so we’ve got to ban you.”

 

Can we say Jason Ewert or the guys that were manipulating spines? How about the guys who were making covers out of thin air. All those were okay until they suddenly weren't.

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Tnexus

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On 8/16/2022 at 8:27 AM, BoognishRises said:

Look how David Gabriel carefully chose to say no "retailer" may make changes after. No mention of an artist/creator. Remember what CGC said? They said the did what they did because it was created BY Clayton Crain. 

David Gabriel's memo might just be a warning to future RETAILERS to not get cute and try this themselves. But I'd bet anything they'd be on board if a well known artist/creator ran it by them first. They'll get the stamp of approval then.

Well, this email was sent out to retailers, not artists, hence the wording. I think any artist would think twice about doing something like this as being blackballed from Marvel would be a potential career killer for many.

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CJ Design

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On 8/16/2022 at 10:55 AM, Tnexus said:

Well, this email was sent out to retailers, not artists, hence the wording. I think any artist would think twice about doing something like this as being blackballed from Marvel would be a potential career killer for many.

Unless you're Sir Crain 

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shadroch

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Aren't these covers retailer exclusives? I've never heard of an artist making his own variant, although it wouldn't surprise me.  Perhaps Disney can offer artist a limited edition cover in leiu of payment?

When Disney looks at what Disney custumers are paying to slab Disney products, it has to think about why all the money isn't flowing back into Disneys's coffer.

How about an exclusive package that includes a sealed copy in Disney Mint plus a reading copy, no waiting a year, no buying five copies in hope one of them gets that elusive 9.8.  All for $29.99 at your favorite LCS. They will include a  special card. Collect ten cards and get a free limited print. 

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GeeksAreMyPeeps

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On 8/16/2022 at 10:37 AM, shadroch said:

Why would that be bad? Comic companies have repackaged unsold material since the golden age.  If a publisher has unsold stock of Boris the Bear Jr #1, and decides to put an acetate cover on it to repackage it, what is the problem?  If a comic retailer does it, it is a problem. If that retailer buys grades from CGC, that is a bigger problem.  Heck, if Marvel gave Diamond permission to put a limited acetate on all its backstock, it might cure the companies finances.

I wasn't making a value judgment so much as suggesting how the new policy might actually result in a new submission being allowed to move forward to the grading stage.

Edited by GeeksAreMyPeeps
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