C**S ... is it true? 6 6

[shadroch]

I've been very critical of CGC on many occasions and Mike nor anyone else from the company has ever called me out on it.  We are all guests here, and every host has an expectation of his guests.  While I don't agree with many of their policies, I was brought up to respect a host's rights. 

[Poka]

On 8/28/2022 at 12:45 AM, aardvark88 said:

Unfortunately, may need name brand change to Beckett Grading Service after 'losing' more than 300 raw comics from a slabber during their warehouse move to another state.

Don’t see cgc and c… much different. Both occasional lose books, both get books through “quality control” which are upside down,  both occasional fail to spot resto and both are owned by capital funds who are looking for returns on their investment. Competition is good 

main diff is that CGC’s customer service is so much better. 

Edited August 29, 2022 by Poka

[Sigur Ros]

On 8/29/2022 at 9:33 AM, Poka said:

Quite funny to read given mod’s frequent actions in this thread

No doubt.  Was a dumb thing to say in a thread where people are being told not to mention the competition's name. Lol.

While over there, they have no problem with it as long as it doesn't turn into a CGC bash-fest.

[Sigur Ros]

On 8/29/2022 at 9:36 AM, shadroch said:

I've been very critical of CGC on many occasions and Mike nor anyone else from the company has ever called me out on it.  We are all guests here, and every host has an expectation of his guests.  While I don't agree with many of their policies, I was brought up to respect a host's rights. 

 

But yea, Mike is pretty patient and good about allowing people to vent their issues.

CGC knows if we can't do it here, we'll do it elsewhere.  They don't want that.

 

Edited August 29, 2022 by Sigur Ros

[FlyingDonut]

Edited August 29, 2022 by FlyingDonut

[D84]

On 8/27/2022 at 4:09 PM, James J Johnson said:

I see it differently. There's nothing wrong with restoration and not everybody who alters comics or buys an altered comic and eventually resells it is a scumbag if that restoration is fully disclosed at all points of sale. In a failed effort to ascend the hallowed high ground, some are actually ignorant of that fact, though it seems inconceivable that someone could think that once a comic is restored, it should be discarded or burned and then discarded. I've actually read things that silly. "That Action 1 is restored! It has no value, it should be thrown out. I wouldn't pay a penny for it", as asinine as that may be. Nothing wrong with the sale of a restored book, as long as full disclosure is made, although this very basic principle still eludes some who mistakenly consider themselves "knowledgeable hobbyists". 

I agree. The whole reason the purple label became a "Scarlet Letter" was because people were finding out they'd been ripped off.

Disclosed restoration is fine, especially with rare golden age books. I'd rather have restored copies of a book out there than none at all.

Edited August 31, 2022 by D84

[Qalyar]

If the communication on the lost books over at the other guys' operation is to be believed at face value, they had set up a system during COVID where (apparently unopened) shipments in the receiving backlog were being sent to employees' homes for them to do the inbounding process, and then re-ship the indexed books back to the company operation for grading.

If that's accurate, holy . Transportation is the riskiest activity for books in the entire grading and encapsulation process. Lost books entirely aside, the idea that received books would be shipped to a residence, handled by an individual outside of the controls of the corporate environment, and then shipped back -- regardless of what method of "shipping" was employes, is horrifying. CGC has certainly had some problems, and I've been as happy to call them out as the next guy, but CGC has always made it clear that books received in the CGC facility are secured in that facility until they go back out the door on their way to their owner. Hell, not even the other other guys -- which we all universally make fun of as a slapdash operation with dubious-at-best standards -- has ever (as far as we know, I guess...) allowed books to leave their facility and return in the middle of the grading process stream.

I already considered CGC, problems or no, to be the best choice in the industry, but this is a hell of a coffin nail. The other guys might as well try to change their name and reboot their processes at this point.

[MAR1979]

On 8/29/2022 at 6:57 AM, Sigur Ros said:

Do people still call CGC "the PGX of card grading"?  I know they were for quite a while.

Impressions of CGC are now mildly favorible on the PSA forums but nowhere near enough that its any more than niche. Of course thing can change in either direction

Edited August 29, 2022 by MAR1979

[MAR1979]

On 8/29/2022 at 12:24 PM, Qalyar said:

If the communication on the lost books over at the other guys' operation is to be believed at face value, they had set up a system during COVID where (apparently unopened) shipments in the receiving backlog were being sent to employees' homes for them to do the inbounding process, and then re-ship the indexed books back to the company operation for grading.

If that's accurate, holy . Transportation is the riskiest activity for books in the entire grading and encapsulation process. Lost books entirely aside, the idea that received books would be shipped to a residence, handled by an individual outside of the controls of the corporate environment, and then shipped back -- regardless of what method of "shipping" was employes, is horrifying. CGC has certainly had some problems, and I've been as happy to call them out as the next guy, but CGC has always made it clear that books received in the CGC facility are secured in that facility until they go back out the door on their way to their owner. Hell, not even the other other guys -- which we all universally make fun of as a slapdash operation with dubious-at-best standards -- has ever (as far as we know, I guess...) allowed books to leave their facility and return in the middle of the grading process stream.

I already considered CGC, problems or no, to be the best choice in the industry, but this is a hell of a coffin nail. The other guys might as well try to change their name and reboot their processes at this point.

Lost or absconded with?

[Qalyar]

On 8/29/2022 at 11:34 AM, MAR1979 said:

Lost or absconded with?

Distinction without a difference in this case, sadly. Although with the amount of shipping back and forth apparently involved, my first guess would be shipping failure rather than employee misconduct. But the fact that you can't tell the different is just one of the many problems with this purported arrangement, if it did indeed operate as described.

[MAR1979]

On 8/29/2022 at 12:45 PM, Qalyar said:

Distinction without a difference in this case, sadly. Although with the amount of shipping back and forth apparently involved, my first guess would be shipping failure rather than employee misconduct. But the fact that you can't tell the different is just one of the many problems with this purported arrangement, if it did indeed operate as described.

Gonna guess it was better stuff than copies of Spawn 1, x-men 2nd 1,4 ASM361, or Xforce 1.

[James J Johnson]

On 8/29/2022 at 10:54 AM, D84 said:

I agree. The whole reason the purple label became a "Scarlet Letter" was because people were finding out they'd been ripped off.

Disclosed restoration is fine, especially with rare golden age books. I'd rather have a restored copies of a book out there than none at all.

Here's some food for thought. CGC yellow label signature series slabbed books typically bring a premium above their blue label unsigned counterparts in similar grade. This is a case where foreign material is added, ink, marker, paint, gel, etc. to the book. Technically it's been color touched. The rationale behind the addition of that ink or paint differs but the adding of the ink/paint is intentional and whether a deliberate attempt to improve the apparent condition or simply to have the creator's track for a keepsake and its additional value to the whole, the result is the same. Added ink/paint to the book, as in color touch. 

The major difference in this result, after signing or color touch, is that a minimally color touched book, say a few dots of color on several spine stresses typically adds from 1/1,000th to 1/100,000th the amount of ink to the book that a creator signature does. 

Now I'm not speaking of moderately to extensively restored hack jobs with acrylic paint or marker/crayon swathed over large areas. I'm referring to minimally restored books with barely detectable (for all except CGC) precisely placed dots of color used to conceal small fractures in the color. 

A book with even a modest sized sharpie signature on the cover will have thousands of times the amount of ink added to the book than one with several dots of color touch. 

If you consider this, and the fact that a book with several dots of color that can't easily be seen can be bought for roughly 1/5th to 1/2 of the price, maybe they're not quite as bad or dastardly as most think when bought with full disclosure at a price that adequately reflects the restoration. 

 

[Sigur Ros]

On 8/29/2022 at 12:24 PM, Qalyar said:

but CGC has always made it clear that books received in the CGC facility are secured in that facility until they go back out the door on their way to their owner. 

So you believe CGC.  The guys who claimed "we know what we graded and stand behind it",  which turned out to be a lie. 

You don't know what they're doing.

On 8/29/2022 at 12:24 PM, Qalyar said:

I already considered CGC, problems or no, to be the best choice in the industry, but this is a hell of a coffin nail. 

Then why did you care enough to create an account over there and try to stir things up?   You never would have used them anyway.

[Qalyar]

On 8/29/2022 at 12:53 PM, Sigur Ros said:

So you believe CGC.  The guys who claimed "we know what we graded and stand behind it",  which turned out to be a lie. 

You don't know what they're doing.

Then why did you care enough to create an account over there and try to stir things up?   You never would have used them anyway.

Thanks for the assumptions. I've had an account there for quite some time (sine May 2020; I had to go check). Believing that CGC represents the best offering in this industry does not mean that I have not dealt with their competitor, not that the encapsulated books I own (and have owned) have been exclusively CGC's.

But, yes, if we discover at some point that CGC removes unslabbed submissions from the Sarasota facility, ships them to random employees' houses in and outside of Florida, and then has those people ship them back to the corporate office for actual slabbing, I'll be exactly as angry with them as I am with their competitor. Because that's such an amazingly stupid process that no one should ever have considered it.

Edited August 29, 2022 by Qalyar

[ExNihilo]

I thought CGC really screwed the pooch with the whole Acetategate fiasco.  I can't believe the guys across the street just went "hold my beer".  Talk about squandering an opportunity to gain market share.

On 8/29/2022 at 9:24 AM, Qalyar said:

Hell, not even the other other guys -- which we all universally make fun of as a slapdash operation with dubious-at-best standards -- has ever (as far as we know, I guess...) allowed books to leave their facility and return in the middle of the grading process stream.

To be fair, don't the other other guys already just operate out of their moms basement or some such?  I suppose that's their "secure facility", but that's really not saying much.

[VintageComics]

On 8/29/2022 at 8:57 AM, CGC Mike said:

Nonetheless, while diverse views and alternative perspectives are welcome here, the Boards are not the place for negative or persistent agendas against other users or CGC’s services.

Interesting.

What constitutes an agenda? There are literally 1000's of posts made over a period of 2 years, still standing on these forums made by the same, consistent group of people talking negatively about me and every time I've asked moderation why they've been allowed I never got an answer. 

[FlyingDonut]

On 8/29/2022 at 3:19 PM, VintageComics said:

Interesting.

What constitutes an agenda? There are literally 1000's of posts made over a period of 2 years, still standing on these forums made by the same, consistent group of people talking negatively about me and every time I've asked moderation why they've been allowed I never got an answer. 

 

[Funnybooks]

[shadroch]

On 8/29/2022 at 11:56 AM, Qalyar said:

Thanks for the assumptions. I've had an account there for quite some time (sine May 2020; I had to go check). Believing that CGC represents the best offering in this industry does not mean that I have not dealt with their competitor, not that the encapsulated books I own (and have owned) have been exclusively CGC's.

But, yes, if we discover at some point that CGC removes unslabbed submissions from the Sarasota facility, ships them to random employees' houses in and outside of Florida, and then has those people ship them back to the corporate office for actual slabbing, I'll be exactly as angry with them as I am with their competitor. Because that's such an amazingly stupid process that no one should ever have considered it.

CGC operated a pressing service for select customers and it was only by accident that it became widely known.  One company got caught sending books off-premises during covid.  Is it possible they were the only one doing so?  How were the missing books being transported?  I've been dubious about CGCs storage capability for a long time. I doubt they anticipated having to hold a years worth of submissions when they designed it.  I wouldn't be surprised to learn they are storing boxes off premises.  Given a choice of moving them off campus or not accepting new submissions, what would you do?

[James J Johnson]

On 8/29/2022 at 2:11 PM, Ba'al said:

Hi Danny