CGC Red Labels 1 1

[shadroch]

I only have two, both Wolverine 1s( Mini).  One I bought many years ago, when the label was current and the other I won on ebay maybe five years ago.  I had them at the Tucson show this weekend and many potential buyers seemed not to understand why it wasn't in a blue label.  I was trying to trade it towards the end as part payment on a BB28 but the dealer wanted a discount as buyers avoid the red labels, in his view. 

Can these be sent in for reholdering and get blue labels? The books seem fine, with one having a few slab blemishes, in line with it being twenty years old.

[valiantman]

Red labels will eventually be sought after. Any dealer avoiding them is penny wise and pound foolish. They are time capsules with "guaranteed untouched comics" since they were slabbed at the very beginning of CGC and only thousands exist while there are millions (nearly 10,000,000) that have been slabbed since. If they're really being reholdered to get the newer labels, that's just going to make the original red labels harder to find.  Collectors never end up wanting anything that's hard to find. No, that would be bad. 

Edited September 5, 2022 by valiantman

[shadroch]

On 9/4/2022 at 7:39 PM, valiantman said:

Red labels will eventually be sought after. Any dealer avoiding them is penny wise and pound foolish.

These are both 9.8s so I'm not sure if crack and press will help them. Walking the show, I didn't see any Red Labels but there were only about a half dozen comic dealers.  I had a great twenty minute talk with Jim Shooter as hundreds of cosplayers walked past his table. 

[valiantman]

On 9/4/2022 at 9:51 PM, shadroch said:

These are both 9.8s so I'm not sure if crack and press will help them. Walking the show, I didn't see any Red Labels but there were only about a half dozen comic dealers.  I had a great twenty minute talk with Jim Shooter as hundreds of cosplayers walked past his table. 

Exactly.  When you're at a show, and no one has what you're looking for... it won't take much extra demand for them to flip the market. Reholdering a red label seems like painting an old car that isn't damaged or stripping the patina off of old furniture. Not many experts recommend "updating" something that's old and still original, especially when fewer were made.

Edited September 5, 2022 by valiantman

[THE_BEYONDER]

On 9/4/2022 at 10:03 PM, shadroch said:

I only have two, both Wolverine 1s( Mini).  One I bought many years ago, when the label was current and the other I won on ebay maybe five years ago.  I had them at the Tucson show this weekend and many potential buyers seemed not to understand why it wasn't in a blue label.  I was trying to trade it towards the end as part payment on a BB28 but the dealer wanted a discount as buyers avoid the red labels, in his view. 

Can these be sent in for reholdering and get blue labels? The books seem fine, with one having a few slab blemishes, in line with it being twenty years old.

What ya want for the pair as is? Pics?

[Stefan_W]

On 9/4/2022 at 10:03 PM, shadroch said:

I only have two, both Wolverine 1s( Mini).  One I bought many years ago, when the label was current and the other I won on ebay maybe five years ago.  I had them at the Tucson show this weekend and many potential buyers seemed not to understand why it wasn't in a blue label.  I was trying to trade it towards the end as part payment on a BB28 but the dealer wanted a discount as buyers avoid the red labels, in his view. 

Can these be sent in for reholdering and get blue labels? The books seem fine, with one having a few slab blemishes, in line with it being twenty years old.

My two cents -

Currently red labels are sought after by collectors like me because at the time they were holdered very few people pressed comics before sending them in. So a 9.4 red label can potentially get a bump by cracking it and pressing it out. Like you, I also have a couple of red labels that are 9.8s already so I just leave them in the holder.

Others in this thread are talking more about the value of the red labels as scarce items, and that is something I have never heard of. There is no intrinsic value that I know of for red label slabs as hard to find items. To the best of my knowledge talking with other collectors the desirability is all about being able to crack and re-sub with a decent chance at getting a grade bump. No one that I have heard of collects old style CGC slabs for their own sake, although given how diverse the collecting community is it would not shock me if such collectors are out there. 

[MB1952]

On 9/4/2022 at 7:03 PM, shadroch said:

I only have two, both Wolverine 1s( Mini).  One I bought many years ago, when the label was current and the other I won on ebay maybe five years ago.  I had them at the Tucson show this weekend and many potential buyers seemed not to understand why it wasn't in a blue label.  I was trying to trade it towards the end as part payment on a BB28 but the dealer wanted a discount as buyers avoid the red labels, in his view. 

Can these be sent in for reholdering and get blue labels? The books seem fine, with one having a few slab blemishes, in line with it being twenty years old.

the dealer was trying to low ball you for the red labels. red labels are in high demand. I have several in my collection. Specially if grades are VF or VF/NM. Like some mentioned collectors seek red labels for crack/press/regrade. 

[Sigur Ros]

For years, CGC pushed reslabbing every 7 years, saying the microchamber paper lost its effectiveness and needed replacing.

If the label is still red, that didn't happen.

[DWL]

On 9/4/2022 at 9:03 PM, shadroch said:

I only have two, both Wolverine 1s( Mini).  One I bought many years ago, when the label was current and the other I won on ebay maybe five years ago.  I had them at the Tucson show this weekend and many potential buyers seemed not to understand why it wasn't in a blue label.  I was trying to trade it towards the end as part payment on a BB28 but the dealer wanted a discount as buyers avoid the red labels, in his view. 

Can these be sent in for reholdering and get blue labels? The books seem fine, with one having a few slab blemishes, in line with it being twenty years old.

Personally, I would keep them in their red labels.  They are a legacy of the early days of CGC and there is, in my opinion, a market for these. 

[MAR1979]

On 9/5/2022 at 11:03 AM, Sigur Ros said:

For years, CGC pushed reslabbing every 7 years, saying the microchamber paper lost its effectiveness and needed replacing.

If the label is still red, that didn't happen.

They stopped that. IIRC due to threat of legal action due to evidence proving it was a false claim.   Although I could be thinking of something else?

I love the look of the old Blue and Red pre-July 2003 labels. However when not buying in person always inquire if the label strip on the top of the slab in still intact. The glue is very very old on those and it dries out and falls off. I don't mind a peeling label as Best Test paper cement works miracles.  

BTW: CGC was much tougher on page quality back then.

 

 

 

 

Edited September 5, 2022 by MAR1979

[shadroch]

I'm convinced. Both are going in the vault.

[Sigur Ros]

On 9/5/2022 at 4:10 PM, MAR1979 said:

They stopped that. IIRC due to threat of legal action due to evidence proving it was a false claim.   Although I could be thinking of something else?

I love the look of the old Blue and Red pre-July 2003 labels. However when not buying in person always inquire if the label strip on the top of the slab in still intact. The glue is very very old on those and it dries out and falls off. I don't mind a peeling label as Best Test paper cement works miracles.  

BTW: CGC was much tougher on page quality back then.

 

 

 

 

Ugliest label anyone ever made.

I have one, but the only reason I don't get it relabeled is because it's gotten wavier and wavier over the years.  While in the case, with off-gassing.  A 9.8 that wouldn't get another 9.8.

But yea, they stopped claiming that.  I'm sure it had nothing to do with the competition creating a vented case.

Edited September 5, 2022 by Sigur Ros

[JollyComics]

Hulk #181 CGC 9.9 and Amazing Fantasy #15 CGC 9.6 are still encapsulated for over 19 years (the first and oldest is 22 years old).  I don't think both cases will be cracked open ever.

Edited September 5, 2022 by JollyComics

[BlowUpTheMoon]

On 9/5/2022 at 4:10 PM, MAR1979 said:

BTW: CGC was much tougher on page quality back then.

I've read when CGC started up (either in NJ or FLA), they had regular office, overhead florescent lighting.  Once they changed to more appropriate lighting, the page quality tightened up. 

[valiantman]

On 9/5/2022 at 9:20 AM, Stefan_W said:

My two cents -

Currently red labels are sought after by collectors like me because at the time they were holdered very few people pressed comics before sending them in. So a 9.4 red label can potentially get a bump by cracking it and pressing it out. Like you, I also have a couple of red labels that are 9.8s already so I just leave them in the holder.

Others in this thread are talking more about the value of the red labels as scarce items, and that is something I have never heard of. There is no intrinsic value that I know of for red label slabs as hard to find items. To the best of my knowledge talking with other collectors the desirability is all about being able to crack and re-sub with a decent chance at getting a grade bump. No one that I have heard of collects old style CGC slabs for their own sake, although given how diverse the collecting community is it would not shock me if such collectors are out there. 

I did qualify that comment with "eventually". 

[FlyingDonut]

On 9/4/2022 at 10:39 PM, valiantman said:

Red labels will eventually be sought after. Any dealer avoiding them is penny wise and pound foolish. They are time capsules with "guaranteed untouched comics" since they were slabbed at the very beginning of CGC and only thousands exist while there are millions (nearly 10,000,000) that have been slabbed since. If they're really being reholdered to get the newer labels, that's just going to make the original red labels harder to find.  Collectors never end up wanting anything that's hard to find. No, that would be bad. 

This is already happening with Wizard First labels. There's a real market for them.

[THE_BEYONDER]

On 9/6/2022 at 11:56 PM, FlyingDonut said:

This is already happening with Wizard First labels. There's a real market for them.

[THE_BEYONDER]

No idea where this came from, but it’s the earliest slab I own.

Edited September 7, 2022 by THE_BEYONDER