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YouTube video about MyComicShop and ComicLink
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Started by Motor City Rob,

237 posts in this topic

THE_BEYONDER

THE_BEYONDER

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On 11/25/2022 at 12:00 PM, Prince Namor said:

Because it happened and was paid for completely in November. 
 

The completion of sale isn't only of interest when it happens... quite the contrary: it's information that is stored to be used for the life of the market. 

Why do I care what a book sold for 6 months ago?  Especially a book that trades often.   What use is that information?  If you want to add it to 6 month old GPA data....go ahead.   Just don’t add 6 month old sales as new data points.  It’s not rocket science. :makepoint:

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Prince Namor

Prince Namor

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On 11/25/2022 at 11:37 AM, blazingbob said:

You keep banging this over and over again that it isn't paid for.  Ok,  the sale shouldn't be reported with the date of the sale until it is paid for.  If a time payment isn't completed the sale isn't reported.

I'm 'banging' it over and over again because the person I was responding to didn't seem to understand the importance of it. 

On 11/25/2022 at 11:37 AM, blazingbob said:

Again,  If I suddenly shipped GPA my full CGC Payment status = Sold sales data I would change past GPA sales for the last 20 years very quickly.  

(shrug)


You may have missed the part where I said there are private dealers who've been selling to regular clientele for decades - that can trust those books are as good as paid for, that report that information. That's not what this is about. 
 

This is about protecting the market from false information. 
 

You're a reputable dealer. You know the market as well as anyone without even using GPA. What is the benefit of having a  sale that is PENDING on GPA vs waiting until it's completed?

Is that benefit greater than the damage that could be done in someone gaming the system?

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Prince Namor

Prince Namor

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On 11/25/2022 at 12:16 PM, THE_BEYONDER said:

Why do I care what a book sold for 6 months ago?  Especially a book that trades often.   What use is that information?  If you want to add it to 6 month old GPA data....go ahead.   Just don’t add 6 month old sales as new data points.  It’s not rocket science. :makepoint:

It didn't sell for that 6 months ago. That's when a price was agreed upon. 
 

It sold when it was paid off and the book traded hands. 

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blazingbob

blazingbob

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On 11/25/2022 at 12:23 PM, Prince Namor said:

It didn't sell for that 6 months ago. That's when a price was agreed upon. 
 

It sold when it was paid off and the book traded hands. 

If you believe this then you pretty much have an issue with every auction house that offers time payments on books.  

If my understanding of GPA is correct that they are screen scraping from the Auction House "public" results and approved submitters are providing data extracts then the auction results will always be skewed since a screen scrape cannot tell that the item was paid for.  Which I believe is why Ebay GPA entry sales are sometimes deleted later because the item wasn't paid for. 

 

  

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Prince Namor

Prince Namor

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On 11/25/2022 at 12:43 PM, blazingbob said:

If you believe this then you pretty much have an issue with every auction house that offers time payments on books.

Nope. However they choose to do it is their thing. 
My problem is people telling MCS how to do it. I think it's great that MCS is understanding of the concern for timely information, but the way they were doing it was attacked as suspicious. 
It wasn't. 
It made practical sense, which I've repeated here, much to some disapproval. 

On 11/25/2022 at 12:43 PM, blazingbob said:

If my understanding of GPA is correct that they are screen scraping from the Auction House "public" results and approved submitters are providing data extracts then the auction results will always be skewed since a screen scrape cannot tell that the item was paid for.  Which I believe is why Ebay GPA entry sales are sometimes deleted later because the item wasn't paid for. 

I think we all want the same thing. Verified, actual sales listed. 

As not everyone here makes their living selling comic books, or even does it as a hobby (I still collect - have no interest in selling for another couple of years), so the timeliness of information given isn't as... immediate. 
 

I certainly understand the concern of dealers like yourself who do it for a living and the difference that information can make. 
 

Hopefully Conan at MCS can come up with a solution that makes all sides happy. As they've shown over the last 10 years, a capacity for change that benefits their customer base as well as their business, I have a great deal of faith that they'll work with GPA to make that happen with this as well. 

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mycomicshop

mycomicshop

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Kudos to David for taking down the original video. I suggested he either take it down, or amend the title, video summary, and insert an editor's note at the beginning of the video talking about the corrections, and he obliged by taking it down. Thanks, David.

Regarding our GPA reporting, still confirming details with George at GPA and will update when that's settled.

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VintageComics

VintageComics

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On 11/25/2022 at 10:11 AM, THE_BEYONDER said:

Again....

Why add a 6 month old sale at all?   It adds nothing 

Anyone who submits data to GPA owes NOTHING to anyone. 

They're VOLUNTARILY submitting sales to GPA. It profits them nothing. They get NOTHING for their efforts except criticism.  

In fact, it would be more advantageous for them to NOT submit anything to GPA, as many dealers choose to do because that knowledge is power. 

-----------------------------------

The fact that some are shredding reputable people who are voluntarily submitting credible info really reveals the selfish and greedy nature of the general consumer.

They expect everything for nothing. They want a lifetime of experience in interpreting data in a neat, $10 a month package and they want it to be perfect with a bow on it. 

And why do they expect that? Because they might miss out on an opportunity to use a cheap, voluntary, mass produced product to profit from it in some way.

The reason people are complaining is because they don't know how to use GPA.

The criticisms are driven by fear, greed and ignorance. Not because GPA or MCS is doing something wrong. 

If everyone steps back and stops hyper-analyzing each data point (something I've been saying for decades because it's creating massive volatility and doing damage to the market), and you use GPA is SUPPOSED to be used, then one data point a few months out doesn't affect the over all picture on GPA any more than it would in the Overstreet Price Guide. Especially on a high volume selling book that sells 100s or even 1000s of copies a year!

Can the system be improved?

Sure. Anything can always be improved but the tone of the discussion and accusations being levied by some are utterly ridiculous and overly entitled.  

And while I'm a full time dealer now, people will remember that I've always felt this way and defended people's right to submit or not submit to GPA and also the expectations to have of GPA. 

-----------------------------------------------

I have a question:

Do all the critics have any idea how many books out of the millions of books auctioned and recorded each year are NOT paid for?

No?

Neither do I. :D

But I'll bet that number is much higher than the odd book that's put on time payments at MCS and reported after it's paid for. 

Some people in this discussion over the last few days are just ridiculous and have lost all perspective. 

Welcome to social media.

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MasterChief

MasterChief

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On 11/25/2022 at 4:37 AM, SeniorSurfer said:

I think if Detective "Dave" ever found himself on the receiving end of the same allegations he might learn a bit more about casting aspersions, reporting and himself as well.  Otherwise...

Oh, the irony!

This guy “Detective Dave” was the subject of intense outrage on the boards several years ago when he was involved in mangling numerous Golden and Silver Age books and selling them to unsuspecting collectors. The doctored books are known as “Facejobs.”

The Wilsonization of those books turned them into different specimens altogether. CGC was caught in the middle. They engaged Mark Zaid to investigate and, ultimately, a new CGC term was coined – Reverse Spine Roll.

No sense in posting the manipulation receipts. It’s thoroughly documented and folks can read about the episode in two different threads...

 

1687431221_ReverseSpineRollRSR.png.b00ef3d62a99112da27f9e00522412cc.png

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THE_BEYONDER

THE_BEYONDER

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On 11/25/2022 at 1:33 PM, VintageComics said:

Anyone who submits data to GPA owes NOTHING to anyone. 

They're VOLUNTARILY submitting sales to GPA. It profits them nothing. They get NOTHING for their efforts except criticism.  

In fact, it would be more advantageous for them to NOT submit anything to GPA, as many dealers choose to do because that knowledge is power. 

-----------------------------------

The fact that some are shredding reputable people who are voluntarily submitting credible info really reveals the selfish and greedy nature of the general consumer.

They expect everything for nothing. They want a lifetime of experience in interpreting data in a neat, $10 a month package and they want it to be perfect with a bow on it. 

And why do they expect that? Because they might miss out on an opportunity to use a cheap, voluntary, mass produced product to profit from it in some way.

The reason people are complaining is because they don't know how to use GPA.

The criticisms are driven by fear, greed and ignorance. Not because GPA or MCS is doing something wrong. 

If everyone steps back and stops hyper-analyzing each data point (something I've been saying for decades because it's creating massive volatility and doing damage to the market), and you use GPA is SUPPOSED to be used, then one data point a few months out doesn't affect the over all picture on GPA any more than it would in the Overstreet Price Guide. Especially on a high volume selling book that sells 100s or even 1000s of copies a year!

Can the system be improved?

Sure. Anything can always be improved but the tone of the discussion and accusations being levied by some are utterly ridiculous and overly entitled.  

And while I'm a full time dealer now, people will remember that I've always felt this way and defended people's right to submit or not submit to GPA and also the expectations to have of GPA. 

-----------------------------------------------

I have a question:

Do all the critics have any idea how many books out of the millions of books auctioned and recorded each year are NOT paid for?

No?

Neither do I. :D

But I'll bet that number is much higher than the odd book that's put on time payments at MCS and reported after it's paid for. 

Some people in this discussion over the last few days are just ridiculous and have lost all perspective. 

Welcome to social media.

Slinging a lot of mud here bud.    Don’t go crying to the mods when it blows up in your face.:baiting:

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VintageComics

VintageComics

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On 11/25/2022 at 1:43 PM, THE_BEYONDER said:

Slinging a lot of mud here bud.

Have you seen MCS and GPA's windshields lately? :D

On 11/25/2022 at 1:43 PM, THE_BEYONDER said:

Don’t go crying to the mods when it blows up in your face.:baiting:

Mods notified. 

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VintageComics

VintageComics

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On 11/25/2022 at 2:29 PM, THE_BEYONDER said:

A true white knight  (worship)

I'd do the same for you if someone else was in the wrong and threw you under a bus, dork.

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Motor City Rob

Motor City Rob

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On 11/25/2022 at 12:08 AM, mycomicshop said:

@Motor City RobWhat exactly would we accomplish by "reporting sales in a misleading way", since "we don't know if it's intentional or not"? Sounds like you're still entertaining the idea that we're somehow dishonest or shady? I don't appreciate that.

A day or two ago when I first saw this thread I emailed George at GPA to discuss this. I explained the situation and proposed ways we could address time payment orders going forward. All options have pros and cons, and none of those pros and cons are unique to us--anybody who offers time payments and reports to GPA would face the same issues. He and I will be discussing more soon (off today for Thanksgiving). George asked if I was good with moving the AF 15 sale to the original purchase date, and I said yeah, told him the date to use, and he moved it. That's not GPA fixing "our" problem, it's two partners working together to address a simple issue when made aware of the problem's existence. 
 

We started reporting to GPA a long time ago, probably over 10 years ago. At the time we didn't sell as many big books as we do now, and we didn't offer time payments. Since we offered both BIN sales and auction sales, and we didn't want to report sales to GPA that didn't get paid for, it made sense to not report sales til they were shipped, when we knew the sale was 100% going through. That way no unpaid orders, and no canceled orders, would ever be reported to GPA. This was discussed with GPA at the time and was a normal decision, not some weird thing we did or kept secret from GPA. I assume they have similar conversations with every reporter they work with.
 

As time passed we developed more business selling bigger books, and also started allowing time payments for buyers to pay for those big books. Reporting to GPA is a very minor aspect of what we do, so when we started accepting time payments it did not occur to me or anyone here that we needed to re-examine anything about GPA reporting. It just silently runs and we never think about it. 
 

Some people are way too quick to cast aspersions on businesses when they run across something questionable or confusing. Occam's razor--the simplest explanation is often the truth. Most businesses aren't trying to rip you off, and most things are the way they are due to some well-intentioned combination of historical inertia and accident. Please cut us some slack and don't act like this is some sneaky misdeed we may have been doing intentionally. It's the guilty until proven innocent just asking questions attitude that the original video got wrong. 

@mycomicshop You don't appreciate what? I have never said MCS was guilty of breaking any laws.  I also stated that no one has any concrete evidence that proves MCS was intentionally being misleading...nor do we have any concrete evidence that proves the opposite. What's wrong with being open-minded of both scenarios?

I think @Phill the Governor stated it best when he said that MCS taking a sale price in May and representing it as a sale price in November was "irresponsible at best and nefarious at worst". 

I know you don't like my wording of saying GPA "fixed" the problem, but that's how I see it. From your post above, it sounds like GPA suggested to move the date back to May, and then they moved it, and you agreed. I think that was the right decision. 

Some people agree with my option. Some don't...and that's ok. I'm glad the boards are a place where all should feel welcome to state their opinions and participate in discussions. 

 

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VintageComics

VintageComics

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On 11/25/2022 at 2:37 PM, THE_BEYONDER said:

I can take care of myself. (shrug)

You're making this about you.

Do you feel accusations made by Detective Dave, Detroit Rob and others about the integrity of the organizations involved in the discussion were OK?

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