The Gravy Train or Real Value? 0

[LearnedHand]

Does anyone really understand the value of the "CVA Exceptional" sticker?  

Seems to appear on books primarily auctioned through one auction website (obviously, these books later appear for resale elsewhere).  For several years, I was curious as to the meaning of this sticker, given the books sometimes do look like better than average (for the grade) copies, but sometimes do not.  According to the CVA website, the point of the sticker designation is (in laymen's terms):  for a fee, CVA piggy-backs on the existing CGC grade and gives its opinion on the CGC grade.  Specifically, that the given copy is exemplary for the given CGC grade.  

But, what constitutes an exemplary copy (within the confines of the CVA definition) for a given grade?  At least in my mind, this would need to be a copy that has a harmony of qualities that separate it from other copies for an overall "exemplary" presentation, such as:  bright and vibrant cover colors, great PQ, great centering, correct (on spine) staple placement, etc.     

With these criteria, in some cases I've found it difficult to reconcile the CVA sticker with the book in the case.  The latest example is the Lawbreakers Suspense Stories #11 being re-auctioned through a different seller (Heritage Auctions).  No doubt, it's a pretty copy and the cover colors are vibrant ... but PQ is c/ow.  The staples are clearly on the front cover (in the artwork) and certainly not on the spine.  The centering is clearly "off," obvious from the white wedge along the upper f/c spine and the visibly slanted back cover advertisement.  

Taking into consideration that "average" copies in any grade (of any book) can have vibrant cover colors, better PQ, better centering and/or better staple placement (see the HA archives), I'm not sure what the CVA criteria are for pronouncing a book to be "exceptional."   Is it all about the creases and staining?  Even here, the example above has color-breaking creases and obvious shadows on the b/c.  Again this is just an example.

Can anyone shed light? 

[KCOComics]

Gravey Train. 

I never take the sticker into consideration when I'm buying. 

I would like to believe others don't either. Use your opinion on presentation. 

[jimjum12]

I would look at a CVC book before I would look at another of the same issue ... I've owned enough of them to see the difference. I do employ a third level that I call the "JVC" assessment where I scan for production defects, which CVC seems to give a pass to. Their service would be optimal if they disqualified candidates for production related defects. This type of service has existed in the coin industry for years and definitely adds value, as it should. Theoretically, it should highlight the 6.9, 7.9, 8.4, 8.9, and 9.3 type examples. It's not rocket science on a conceptual level .... although the execution may be a little too loose to have the "teeth" that this service has with coins.  You can't really judge by looking at scans, the book needs to be in hand, as the strengths can be subtle yet profound. GOD BLESS... 

-jimbo(a friend of jesus)

Edited December 26, 2022 by jimjum12

[FoggyNelson]

On 12/26/2022 at 8:42 AM, jimjum12 said:

I would look at a CVC book before I would look at another of the same issue ... I've owned enough of them to see the difference. I do employ a third level that I call the "JVC" assessment where I scan for production defects, which CVC seems to give a pass to. Their service would be optimal if they disqualified candidates for production related defects. This type of service has existed in the coin industry for years and definitely adds value, as it should. Theoretically, it should highlight the 6.9, 7.9, 8.4, 8.9, and 9.3 type examples. It's not rocket science on a conceptual level .... although the execution may be a little too loose to have the "teeth" that this service has with coins.  You can't really judge by looking at scans, the book needs to be in hand, as the strengths can be subtle yet profound. GOD BLESS... 

-jimbo(a friend of jesus)

Good answer👍

[mattn792]

CVA - Currently Verifying Anything

Just like CLink is in bed with CVA as mentioned above, another large seller (I forget which) is in bed with the competing useless sticker company QES (Quietly Exploiting Suckers).

Total cash grab.

[Northwest]

I'm waiting for a service that grades and authenticates the CVA holograms. That will be truly next level

[buttock]

On 12/26/2022 at 6:42 AM, jimjum12 said:

I would look at a CVC book before I would look at another of the same issue ... I've owned enough of them to see the difference. I do employ a third level that I call the "JVC" assessment where I scan for production defects, which CVC seems to give a pass to. Their service would be optimal if they disqualified candidates for production related defects. This type of service has existed in the coin industry for years and definitely adds value, as it should. Theoretically, it should highlight the 6.9, 7.9, 8.4, 8.9, and 9.3 type examples. It's not rocket science on a conceptual level .... although the execution may be a little too loose to have the "teeth" that this service has with coins.  You can't really judge by looking at scans, the book needs to be in hand, as the strengths can be subtle yet profound. GOD BLESS... 

-jimbo(a friend of jesus)

I look for books on QVC.  They tell me those are guaranteed to go up in value. 

[alexgross.com]

i LOVE cva and qes because i'm just too d u m b to be able to evaluate a book based on the cgc grade, the notes, and my own lousy eyeballs. this takes all the guesswork out of deciding if a book is a nice copy for the grade. thank you comiclink and metropolis for bringing these wonderful tools into our lives and unnecessarily boosting the sales prices of books that i want to buy.

[lou_fine]

On 12/26/2022 at 5:09 AM, LearnedHand said:

Does anyone really understand the value of the "CVA Exceptional" sticker? 

 

Can anyone shed light? 

I believe the best people to shed some light on this issue here would be those who are actually willing to pay more money for a slightly higher CGC graded copy of a book as opposed to to a slightly lower graded copy even though the lower graded copy clearly presents a whole lot nicer than the higher graded copy.  

Yep, totally befuddles me, but apparently there are some bidders who do actually do this.  

To each their own, but really................go figure that!!!   

Edited December 27, 2022 by lou_fine

[KCOComics]

On 12/26/2022 at 1:06 PM, Northwest said:

I'm waiting for a service that grades and authenticates the CVA holograms. That will be truly next level

+1

First, you pay a 3rd party service to grade the book.  It's creates an industry standard, I'm onboard. 

Then you pay a "4th party" to grade the graders assessment. 

And what we really need is a 5th party, to establish if the 4th parties assessment of the 3rd parties work is accurate.  

[lizards2]

since CGC is about 40% over, 40% under, I gladly pay attention to CVA stickers.

[THE_BEYONDER]

On 12/26/2022 at 9:46 PM, lizards2 said:

since CGC is about 40% over, 40% under, I gladly pay attention to CVA stickers.

Yup.  Although being touted as a sign of an exemplary copy....I see the sticker as a sign that the copy might be accurately graded. 

[THE_BEYONDER]

On 12/26/2022 at 8:41 PM, KCOComics said:

+1

First, you pay a 3rd party service to grade the book.  It's creates an industry standard, I'm onboard. 

Then you pay a "4th party" to grade the graders assessment. 

And what we really need is a 5th party, to establish if the 4th parties assessment of the 3rd parties work is accurate.  

CGC will slab the slab someday....

[Le Chat Noir]

Pretend CGC says it's 9.8 and CVA says it's exceptional...

Can we trust them? Do we need a 3rd grader? 

[BanjerD]

This CGC 2.5 of Marvel Comics #1 has attracted both CVA and QES stickers

the consensus seems to be that's a mighty fine-looking 2.5

Edited December 27, 2022 by BanjerD

[lou_fine]

On 12/26/2022 at 12:56 PM, alexgross.com said:

i LOVE cva and qes because i'm just too d u m b to be able to evaluate a book based on the cgc grade, the notes, and my own lousy eyeballs. this takes all the guesswork out of deciding if a book is a nice copy for the grade. thank you comiclink and metropolis for bringing these wonderful tools into our lives and unnecessarily boosting the sales prices of books that i want to buy.

In all seriousness though, I remember checking out about a dozen of Schmell's resubmitted Dell File Copy books which he had up for sale in his Doug's Dell & Gold Key Showcase Auction on Heritage a couple of months ago.  Out of the ones which I were following that had either a CVA or QES sticker on them in their prior incarnation, it was a perfect 100% batting average when it came to CPR as every single one of them came in at least one or two grade increments higher.  So, probably a easy and useful tool for those into playing the CPR game, but too lazy or have bad eyes to do the necessary analytical work themselves.    

The one positive out of all this CPR manipulation though was that the large majority of the upgraded books actually sold for LESS money than they did when they were in their lower graded slabs, especially the ones brought from the CC website.  He did have a couple of big winners though, much more so from the CL platform which allowed him to break even or possibly even made a tiny bit of small change after all of the work that must have gone in on upgrading the books.  

Edited December 27, 2022 by lou_fine

[Tec-Tac-Toe]

I have never fed any of my dogs, past and present, Gravy Train.

As concerns CVA and QES, I own perhaps 25 CGC graded comic books with one or the other sticker and based on that limited sample I don't recall that the ones that I own other CGC graded copies of look any better than those other copies. Of course, like others posting in this thread I did not pay or bid extra because of the stickers.

[LOC Collectibles]

On 12/27/2022 at 1:32 AM, BanjerD said:

This CGC 2.5 of Marvel Comics #1 has attracted both CVA and QES stickers

the consensus seems to be that's a mighty fine-looking 2.5

Definitely feel like this slab needs a few more stickers. 🤦‍♂️

[Off Panel]

I notice, especially on Metropolis and ComicConnect, that sellers are spelling out the exact QES criteria that a book meets. For example: "Preferred staple placement," "Perfect Spine," "Exceptional Cover Whiteness," etc.

It doesn't seem like books have to meet all criteria and I'm not sure what minimum number must be met to earn the sticker. One perhaps?

"This book was ripped in two; but both halves feature preferred staple placement. Exceptional!"

Can you imagine if everything in life worked that way?

"Your upcoming blind date has met the criteria to be certified Truly Exceptional!" (Criteria met: Good personality.)

I guess my question is (and I truly don't know the answer) do these companies ever decline a book or do they somehow find something nice to say about every book that is submitted?

Edited December 28, 2022 by Off Panel
Less is more.